Unofficial Unmoderated bitwincasino.com thread

[Noitev]

Since Oldminer is deleting any posts of criticism, please post here in regards to bitwincasino.com

What I posted was basically proof that they do not have 98% odds and that the games are rigged so that players can't make profit. Please play their multiplier wheel of chance and make as much of the wheel red as possible, you will see of unusually often it lands in the uncovered portion. I additionally got 15 tails in a row on coin toss.

The whole site is poorly made in general and I advise not gambling there if you want a chance to actually win more 1/10th your wager, or win in general for that manner.

[Mitchell]

They keep deleting my posts, which is very strange, because they said they wouldn't remove negative feedback

A reply of yours, quoted below, was deleted by the starter of a self-moderated topic. There are no rules of self-moderation, so this deletion cannot be appealed. Do not continue posting in this topic if the topic-starter has requested that you leave.

You can create a new topic if you are unsatisfied with this one. If the topic-starter is scamming, post about it in Scam Accusations.

A reply of yours, quoted below, was deleted by the starter of a self-moderated topic. There are no rules of self-moderation, so this deletion cannot be appealed. Do not continue posting in this topic if the topic-starter has requested that you leave.

You can create a new topic if you are unsatisfied with this one. If the topic-starter is scamming, post about it in Scam Accusations.

Heads or tails? What ill it be?

Is this one fair?  It seems a simple coin toss would be easy enough to program to be fair.

Or does it make sure the player loses if the casino has been unlucky recently?

All the games are fair.

The casino has a 98% payout, so for every 100 credits bet, 98 are put back into the prize pool.

Fair =/= provably fair. Can you prove that a game is fair?

Long live self moderated topics What about the comment you made earlier about not deleting negative posts?

A reply of yours, quoted below, was deleted by the starter of a self-moderated topic. There are no rules of self-moderation, so this deletion cannot be appealed. Do not continue posting in this topic if the topic-starter has requested that you leave.

You can create a new topic if you are unsatisfied with this one. If the topic-starter is scamming, post about it in Scam Accusations.

A casino with a self moderated thread? I dislike that. I mean, now you can delete all the negative feedback.

[Rannasha]

I have had several of my posts deleted from the thread, all concerning provably fair betting. The operator apparently doesn't understand the concept of provable fairness and calls it a scam to trick customers. He links to a post from another thread on provable fairness which contains a question about how it prevents the website from fixing the rolls and uses that as evidence for his claim, despite the question (and followups to it) being answered in great detail by several people later on in that thread.

I would avoid bitwincasino.com.

[Oldminer]

They keep deleting my posts, which is very strange, because they said they wouldn't remove negative feedback

You continue to spam the thread with posts on 'provable fairness'. I stated in my thread that, in my opinion, this concept is nothing more than a scam peddled by a few 'believers'. I stated that the discussion on it would end in my thread. You continued to spam. Your posts were deleted. Simple.

[Rannasha]

They keep deleting my posts, which is very strange, because they said they wouldn't remove negative feedback

You continue to spam the thread with posts on 'provable fairness'. I stated in my thread that, in my opinion, this concept is nothing more than a scam peddled by a few 'believers'. I stated that the discussion on it would end in my thread. You continued to spam. Your posts were deleted. Simple.

Just because it's beyond your power of comprehension, doesn't make it a scam. Come with proper arguments if you want to convince anyone, since the post about provable fairness you quoted in your thread is just a question that was thoroughly answered and no proof of anything.

[Mitchell]

They keep deleting my posts, which is very strange, because they said they wouldn't remove negative feedback

You continue to spam the thread with posts on 'provable fairness'. I stated in my thread that, in my opinion, this concept is nothing more than a scam peddled by a few 'believers'. I stated that the discussion on it would end in my thread. You continued to spam. Your posts were deleted. Simple.

Lol whut? Spam? I just said that fair is not provably fair. That is all I said about that subject.
Provably fair a scam? Dafuck is wrong with you?

[Noitev]

It's fine, I have undeniable proof that they are cheating their customers so it doesn't matter.

go to Casinowebscripts.com which is the software maker

they have documentation for the software there:

https://www.casinowebscripts.com/doc/backend.pdf

Go to page 5

Play For Real Percent
Influences how often a player will win in real mode.
Set this to 100% and the players will have random chances to win, depending on how the cards/symbols are positioned on the screen. The games will pay only if the bank has enough money to pay, otherwise the games will generate a combination of
cards/symbols so that the player will lose.

Randomness Play For Fun Percent
Influences how often a player will win in fun mode.

They admit that the games will pay losing combinations if the bankroll is too small. In addition, the games that play for fun have higher win rates than games for real money. Avoid this casino like the plague.

If you read on, you can see the system were they have a "98% return" by going to page 6. Basically the casino takes 2% of your money regardless of what happens in the game. If the player pool is empty, it refills it by making you lose.

[Noitev]

This is by far the best quote:

[Mitchell]

Damn. I feel sorry for the people who gamble there.

[Noitev]

I'll check the site out since he is going to send me some coins for free. I'll post later to tell you how it went :p

He did the same for me and it didn't go well. min withdrawal is 5x your bonus it doesn't seem like it's possible to hit that with it.

[b!z]

Bitwincasino.com seems very sketchy to me. The admins have suggested that the software is designed to cheat if the casino is in a losing streak. With Noitev's additional evidence, I would recommend that people do not deposit and play in this casino, until the admins add provable fairness to the games.

[Mooshire]

I facepalm inside every time someone says provably fair is a scam. Mostly because their just too stupid to understand it/running a scam.

[Oldminer]

Just because it's beyond your power of comprehension, doesn't make it a scam. Come with proper arguments if you want to convince anyone, since the post about provable fairness you quoted in your thread is just a question that was thoroughly answered and no proof of anything.

I comprehend it very well, which is why I know its a scam. Its those that don't understand the 'concept' that think its valid, since on the surface it does look very good. But the devil is in the detail.

User ASICSRUS has pointed out the 'phoniness' in your 'concept' and has even gone as far to say he can PROVE its a sham (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=311404.80), yet you choose to ignore his posts and continue with your circle jerk.

Bitwincasino will not be signing up to this 'unprovably fair' concept since its nothing more than a scam.

thanks

[Rannasha]

Just because it's beyond your power of comprehension, doesn't make it a scam. Come with proper arguments if you want to convince anyone, since the post about provable fairness you quoted in your thread is just a question that was thoroughly answered and no proof of anything.

I comprehend it very well, which is why I know its a scam. Its those that don't understand the 'concept' that think its valid, since on the surface it does look very good. But the devil is in the detail.

Tell me those details, enlighten me.

User ASICSRUS has pointed out the 'phoniness' in your 'concept' and has even gone as far to say he can PROVE its a joke (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=311404.80), yet you choose to ignore his posts and continue with your circle jerk.

You're seriously going to quote ASICSRUS as a credible source? Have you read some of his posts? And then using the fact that he *claims he can prove* (note: he hasn't actually proven anything) as a basis for your argument?

There's a reason that I, and many others, ignore his posts. They're nonsensical rambling mostly. And the proof he claims to be able to produce is nowhere to be seen.

Bitwincasino will not be signing up to this 'unprovably fair' concept since its nothing more than a scam.

It's also hard to combine provable fairness with your casinos "feature" to grant 100% guaranteed losing rolls when the bankroll is too low (as opposed to simply decreasing the maximum amount a player can bet, but still giving every player & bet a fair chance).

Suit yourself, but don't pretend that you can discredit solid concepts in the Bitcoin-gambling scene with nothing more than the ramblings of ASICSRUS as "proof".

[Rannasha]

Just gonna quote from the official Bitwincasino thread and reply here, since my post would otherwise be deleted.

ANNOUNCEMENT

Bitwincasino will not be subscribing to the 'provably fair' concept, since in its current state at least, it is open to manipulation. The initial 'hash seed' (which is crucial to the 'proof' of this system) not being revealed to the player until after the results are shown is but one of the many problems with this 'proof of fairness in play', that seems to be peddled by a few individuals.

Bitwincasino will not mislead customers into believing they have a fair chance of winning by hiding behind a concept that is flawed and open to manipulation.

thankyou

This proves once again that you have no idea what you're talking about.

Again, provable fairness 101:
1. Generate server seed. Hash it. Show the user the hash.
2. Get a client seed from the user.
3. Get a nonce value that is publicly visible (bet-count is a good one).
4. Generate the roll by combining the server seed, client seed and nonce.
5. Upon the users request: Show the server seed. At this point, regenerate a new server seed (go to step 1).

The user can hash the shown server seed and verify that the hash computed is the same as what he was shown in step 1. The operator can't change the server seed, since that would result in a different hash-value.

So yes, the actual seed is only revealed after the rolls, which is only logical, because with the server seed a user could compute whether he would win the next roll or not. But the hash of the server seed gives the user enough information to ensure that the operator hasn't changed it to alter the outcome of the roll.

Unlike your casino, which alters the outcome whenever you feel the bankroll is too low. Users aren't allowed to win if someone else was lucky and won just before them. Provably unfair.

[Oldminer]

Suit yourself, but don't pretend that you can discredit solid concepts in the Bitcoin-gambling scene with nothing more than the ramblings of ASICSRUS as "proof".

Why do you choose to ignore ASICSRUS's posts Rannasha? Is it because you can't dispute his claims?

The 'provably fair' concept is simply not 'provably fair', and you know it.

[Mooshire]

For the love of god, do people even go here? I feel bad for them.

[Mitchell]

Suit yourself, but don't pretend that you can discredit solid concepts in the Bitcoin-gambling scene with nothing more than the ramblings of ASICSRUS as "proof".

Why do you choose to ignore ASICSRUS's posts Rannasha? Is it because you can't dispute his claims?

The 'provably fair' concept is simply not 'provably fair', and you know it.

ASICSRUS's posts nothing but crap (as far as I have seen) and spams the shit out of every casino thread.
Also provably fair is fair and you know it, but choose to ignore it. Stop claiming bullshit.

[Mooshire]

Suit yourself, but don't pretend that you can discredit solid concepts in the Bitcoin-gambling scene with nothing more than the ramblings of ASICSRUS as "proof".

Why do you choose to ignore ASICSRUS's posts Rannasha? Is it because you can't dispute his claims?

Oldminer: Please give me a FACT (Not an opinion) of why provably fair is a scam and does not work. Also, ASICRUS just goes around posting everywhere that he lost a few satoshis and cries wolf. So i'm calling you out here to act like an actual business owner and give me facts.

Why do you claim the provably fair process to be a "scam"?

[Rannasha]

Suit yourself, but don't pretend that you can discredit solid concepts in the Bitcoin-gambling scene with nothing more than the ramblings of ASICSRUS as "proof".

Why do you choose to ignore ASICSRUS's posts Rannasha? Is it because you can't dispute his claims?

Because he's rambling and not putting forth a coherent argument. I have no issues with disputing any well-formulated claims should he choose to make them. He's making random claims of websites changing the win-chance when a user switches his bet-size and that websites (primarily Just-Dice) gives users different odds based on their IP address.

Yet he offers no proof. He claims he can prove it, people have called him out on it. But he doesn't do it. I can't dispute a claim that says "I have proof for X" without said proof being offered.

As added irony, ASICSRUS claims the whole provable fairness concept is a scam, yet advertises a provably fair casino (PrimeDice) in his signature.