Distribution of bitcoin wealth by owner

[rpietila]

Also, very curious about how you calculate the distribution and the number of holders. That's a complete mystery to me. It's not just the gox leak, right? How then will you know the number in the future?

Reading the thread might help...

Hey Risto:

Do you believe that the last 6 months of downturned BTC market has significantly affected bitcoin distribution?   Is there a possible projected distribution update coming out, or has such update been posted in another thread?

I haven't been too much into BTC lately, the development is so frantic. Monero (XMR) and CryptoKingdom (CK) are my spearhead now, as you can see from my latest posts. And what is better, both are so small that even a small diversification from BTC achieves total hedging (XMR marketcap about 0.1% that of BTC).

[JayJuanGee]

Also, very curious about how you calculate the distribution and the number of holders. That's a complete mystery to me. It's not just the gox leak, right? How then will you know the number in the future?

Reading the thread might help...

Hey Risto:

Do you believe that the last 6 months of downturned BTC market has significantly affected bitcoin distribution?   Is there a possible projected distribution update coming out, or has such update been posted in another thread?

I haven't been too much into BTC lately, the development is so frantic. Monero (XMR) and CryptoKingdom (CK) are my spearhead now, as you can see from my latest posts. And what is better, both are so small that even a small diversification from BTC achieves total hedging (XMR marketcap about 0.1% that of BTC).

Yeah, surely, it is possible to make a lot of money on some of the alt coins, including Monero.  Nonetheless, BTC remains the main game in town, and will likely remain the main game in town for several years into the future. 

In that regard, it would be nice to know how the distribution is being affected by these ongoing loss of enthusiasm for BTC ..... and then how that lack of enthusiasm affects BTC distribution. 



In essence from the first post of this thread, you can see that the theory is, more or less, that if there happens to be about 1 million bitcoin users,

1) fewer than 100,000 hold 10 or more bitcoins

2) about 250k people hold 1-10 BTC

3) about 650k people hold less than 1 BTC.


With ongoing BTC market manipulations, sometimes it is reasonable to question how those potential manipulations are affecting BTC distribution... and whether the manipulations cause fewer and fewer people (or entities) to hold the large quantity of coins (because they frustrate a large number of regular people regarding price performance and conceptions of BTC profitability).

For example, when the price is so low (less than $300) and the means to obtain BTC has become so easy, it seems very possible that a large number of people could easily buy and hold around 10 BTC - for less than a $3k investment... that is if they have enough confidence and/or enthusiasm in order to make such a leap into the bitcoin scene.

I continue to be fairly confused about a lot of these kinds of questions regarding who is holding BTC because frequently, we hear news about people in various countries beginning to invest in BTC because they are concerned about retaining value when they have value being held in their own currency.

Just today, I saw a reference to an article about demand being up in Greece by 600% in the past few weeks  (http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3gyynx/greek_crisis_spurs_bitcoin_demand_btcgreece_newly/)   ... Whatever that is supposed to mean?

[rpietila]

My belief is that the prolonged decline has increased the largest holdings and made the wealth pyramid more steep. The real biggies (banksters, etc) can effortlessly buy more BTC as it becomes available, and some of the early guys need to/want to sell to preserve some of their gains.

The lower end of the distribution should behave similarly as before, my thinking is only that the big, manipulative end has grown bigger.

Bitcoin is firmly in bankster control (which it possibly was in 2013, but not sure). I still believe it will increase in value 100x or more, but the ideological fervor to own a coin that will make the difference has in my case migrated to Monero and perhaps other good coins if such become available in the future (so far only 2 coins, BTC, XMR have met my criteria for investment).

[TPTB_need_war]

the ideological fervor to own a coin that will make the difference has in my case migrated to Monero and perhaps other good coins if such become available in the future (so far only 2 coins, BTC, XMR have met my criteria for investment).

Risto, this week has been amazing for me:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1049048.msg12140971#msg12140971

That is concerning:

• Instant 0-conf transactions that can't be double-spent with any of the typical attacks on Bitcoin.
• Holy grail of on chain anonymity (superior to Cryptonote).
• No more 51% attack possible.

Those claims are so incredible, I doubt anyone will believe me until they see white papers. And they should not until they do.

[Vlad2Vlad]

Bitcoin is firmly in bankster control (which it possibly was in 2013, but not sure). I still believe it will increase in value 100x or more, but the ideological fervor to own a coin that will make the difference has in my case migrated to Monero and perhaps other good coins if such become available in the future (so far only 2 coins, BTC, XMR have met my criteria for investment).

I'm so glad to see that most of you early Bitcoin adopters finally see that Bitcoin has been hijacked by the banks.  I was saying it since 2013 but nobody would believe it - especially not the Bitcoin "experts".

As for migration into other coins, I agree that Bitcoin will easily see a 100 fold increase from here, and I think much higher and I think it will happen next year but many purists and early adopters will move to the defacto sidechain alt(s) which Bitcoin will be forced to use in order to scale this coming year.

If one wants to find out the best bets on those coins just look to see which coins the Chinese hold dear since they're the ones holding Gavin to a max 8mb capacity [for obvious reasons].

FYI:  Monero is most likely a fed coin.  Just ask the top hackers in crypto!  So is DASH.  That makes both coins good buys just don't go falling in love with another lie.   

[nextgencoin]

the ideological fervor to own a coin that will make the difference has in my case migrated to Monero and perhaps other good coins if such become available in the future (so far only 2 coins, BTC, XMR have met my criteria for investment).

Risto, this week has been amazing for me:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1049048.msg12140971#msg12140971

That is concerning:

• Instant 0-conf transactions that can't be double-spent with any of the typical attacks on Bitcoin.
• Holy grail of on chain anonymity (superior to Cryptonote).
• No more 51% attack possible.

Those claims are so incredible, I doubt anyone will believe me until they see white papers. And they should not until they do.

How can you claim to of solved problems when the first is already solved by Vanilla coin. Vanilla coin wallet is anonomous already right? Plus it's plans are to implement anominity too. Just remember if your not done in a couple of months your not first mover in anominity either.

No I see why you attacked and got so upset at Vanilla coin....though it seems it inspired you 'solving' double spend ie you copied. 

[TPTB_need_war]

How can you claim to of solved problems when the first is already solved by Vanilla coin. Vanilla coin wallet is anonomous already right? Plus it's plans are to implement anominity too. Just remember if your not done in a couple of months your not first mover in anominity either.

No I see why you attacked and got so upset at Vanilla coin....though it seems it inspired you 'solving' double spend ie you copied.  

I wish VanillaCoin good luck. My confidence is well founded. I haven't copied a thing from them. I've (as AnonyMint) been working on my own stuff for 2.5 years. And there are no similarities whatsoever in our algorithms and methods. And I have stated all my logic over in the altcoin forum as to why they haven't proven theirs can work (and several other long-time experts have agreed with me). And they have released no details whatsoever on their anonymity algorithms. The chance that they discovered what I did on anonymity is about zero. Again I wish them good luck and have no desire to continue any discord with them.

When people follow you to other threads, stalking you, that is indicative of whom is the leader.

[TPTB_need_war]

I'm so glad to see that most of you early Bitcoin adopters finally see that Bitcoin has been hijacked by the banks.  I was saying it since 2013 but nobody would believe it - especially not the Bitcoin "experts".

Afair, you participated in my (as AnonyMint) "Bitcoin is a Ponzi" thread where I cited and discussed with you my "Bitcoin: The Digital Kill Switch" in 2013. So "nobody" is incorrect.

FYI:  Monero is most likely a fed coin.  Just ask the top hackers in crypto!  So is DASH.  That makes both coins good buys just don't go falling in love with another lie.    

Smooth and iCebreaker are running a convincing campaign to elucidate that DASH (DarkCoin) was instamined.

Why do you think those guys (fluffypony, tacotime, smooth, etc) are moles for the banks? I sometimes have discussions with smooth. He is also working on AEON.

I read an innuendo yesterday that implied fluffypony has 25 x 2.5% of the XMR coins! I doubt that! But there was apparently one entity mining the hell out of Monero on AWS (these are just accusations I read yesterday so I dunno).

Seems the more plausible explanation is these are all just sort of scammy coins by guys who want to get rich and pretend (hide behind) an ethos that they are more ethical (holier than thou) the other scammer.

It is the Hegelian dialectic principle that TPTB employ where the lesser worst looks better (i.e. manufactured crisis).

But I still doubt that. I bet it is just human natures at play.

Also I want to move away from getting into these political battles. Who cares! Can't we just go create great tech and make our presentations and let the users decide what they want to buy and use.

[rpietila]

Bitcoin is firmly in bankster control (which it possibly was in 2013, but not sure). I still believe it will increase in value 100x or more, but the ideological fervor to own a coin that will make the difference has in my case migrated to Monero and perhaps other good coins if such become available in the future (so far only 2 coins, BTC, XMR have met my criteria for investment).

I'm so glad to see that most of you early Bitcoin adopters finally see that Bitcoin has been hijacked by the banks.  I was saying it since 2013 but nobody would believe it - especially not the Bitcoin "experts".

You can quite easily destroy your credibility by promoting iXcoin. That's why.

FYI:  Monero is most likely a fed coin.  Just ask the top hackers in crypto!  So is DASH.  That makes both coins good buys just don't go falling in love with another lie.   

Link please.

[nextgencoin]

How can you claim to of solved problems when the first is already solved by Vanilla coin. Vanilla coin wallet is anonomous already right? Plus it's plans are to implement anominity too. Just remember if your not done in a couple of months your not first mover in anominity either.

No I see why you attacked and got so upset at Vanilla coin....though it seems it inspired you 'solving' double spend ie you copied.  

I wish VanillaCoin good luck. My confidence is well founded. I haven't copied a thing from them. I've (as AnonyMint) been working on my own stuff for 2.5 years. And there are no similarities whatsoever in our algorithms and methods. And I have stated all my logic over in the altcoin forum as to why they haven't proven theirs can work (and several other long-time experts have agreed with me). And they have released no details whatsoever on their anonymity algorithms. The chance that they discovered what I did on anonymity is about zero. Again I wish them good luck and have no desire to continue any discord with them.

When people follow you to other threads, stalking you, that is indicative of whom is the leader.

Good luck being the second to solve double spend....lol

And like the 10th to solve anominity...

[TPTB_need_war]

Thank you nextgencoin. Good luck to you also.

Reliable, complete, and fool-proof anonymity has not be solved yet by any altcoin. Instant 0-conf without double spending has not been solved by any altcoin. These facts will be explained beyond any doubt.

Again I wish you all good luck and good night.

[Vlad2Vlad]

You can quite easily destroy your credibility by promoting iXcoin. That's why.

FYI:  Monero is most likely a fed coin.  Just ask the top hackers in crypto!  So is DASH.  That makes both coins good buys just don't go falling in love with another lie.   

Link please.

My credibility due to ixCoin has shot up.  I've personally talked to Gavin and Peter Todd [last month] regarding testing the 20mb update for Bitcoin.  I doubt those two talk to people with no credibility.   I brought them together with the Chinese pools, including f2pool, a week before the 8mb deal was signed. 

FYI:  Not even Brock Pierce has access to f2pool, but I do, anytime I want, on-demand. 

How's that for credibility from a guy who can't code and who launched ShitCoin?  haha.

As for the anon coins.  There is no link just ask the top reputable hackers.  And there are no true anon coins.  It's a lie.  There will never be a public anon coin even if the tech gets developed but you can bet banks, corps and govts will own and use it [exclusively].  You know, for your safety.  lol

This Blocksize issue is gonna reshape crypto in the coming months and Bitcoin will have no choice but to take on a few [alt-coin] sidechains, including the ones demanded by the Chinese.  Maybe it won't be iXCoin, maybe that's their decoy, but I'm betting that's their top pick.

Cheers!

[Vlad2Vlad]

I wanna add one more thing.

I'm not an early Bitcoin adopter.  I have no money.  I cannot code at all.  I own no Bitcoins.  I live in bum Egypt Oregon and have never met a single Bitcoin/Crypto person and I have never been to a single Bitcoin/Crypto meeting or event.

So I have done it all from my iPhone - completely alone and with no money or help from anyone.

Taking that into consideration, what I have accomplished [reputation-wise] is nothing short of mind blowing astounding.

And this is without any real proof that ixCoin is anything but another scam ShitCoin.

[TPTB_need_war]

My credibility due to ixCoin has shot up.

$361,000 market cap:

http://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/ixcoin/

As for the anon coins.  There is no link just ask the top reputable hackers.  And there are no true anon coins.  It's a lie.  There will never be a public anon coin even if the tech gets developed

I will insure you are wrong about there will never be a public anon coin. What reason do you have for concluding that?

There are anonymous coins now, but none of them are complete. For example, the IP address is not obfuscated reliably when using Tor or I2P to send transactions to these anonymous block chains.

This Blocksize issue is gonna reshape crypto in the coming months and Bitcoin will have no choice but to take on a few [alt-coin] sidechains, including the ones demanded by the Chinese.

Including one that isn't launched yet that will completely solve the issue of scalability.

[vokain]

You can quite easily destroy your credibility by promoting iXcoin. That's why.

FYI:  Monero is most likely a fed coin.  Just ask the top hackers in crypto!  So is DASH.  That makes both coins good buys just don't go falling in love with another lie.    

Link please.

My credibility due to ixCoin has shot up.  I've personally talked to Gavin and Peter Todd [last month] regarding testing the 20mb update for Bitcoin.  I doubt those two talk to people with no credibility.   I brought them together with the Chinese pools, including f2pool, a week before the 8mb deal was signed.  

FYI:  Not even Brock Pierce has access to f2pool, but I do, anytime I want, on-demand.  

How's that for credibility from a guy who can't code and who launched ShitCoin?  haha.

As for the anon coins.  There is no link just ask the top reputable hackers.  And there are no true anon coins.  It's a lie.  There will never be a public anon coin even if the tech gets developed but you can bet banks, corps and govts will own and use it [exclusively].  You know, for your safety.  lol

This Blocksize issue is gonna reshape crypto in the coming months and Bitcoin will have no choice but to take on a few [alt-coin] sidechains, including the ones demanded by the Chinese.  Maybe it won't be iXCoin, maybe that's their decoy, but I'm betting that's their top pick.

Cheers!

In my opinion, one's credibility should be able to speak for itself.

[Erdogan]

Just give up, I have all the coinz and I am going to double spend them!

[RussianRaibow]

I made a distribution with more resolution for Monero yesterday.

I am thinking of doing the same for Bitcoin - just using statistical methods, and the constants:
  * Satoshi 980k
  * 1 million holders
  * 620 $/BTC
  * current number of bitcoins.

So not using any richlists, blockchain dumps etc.

It will be interesting to compare

With the blocks being spent by https://www.reddit.com/user/btcthwy, do you think there is a chance that he is Satoshi?

[the_poet]

I'd be curious to look at the updated stats.

[RealBitcoin]

Can you please update this info, I cannot find any other estimation like this on the forum

According to your estimation, I`m a bitcoin elite in the top percentages, it's really good


(Plus now that new users come from Phillipines and SE-Asia with low bitcoin balances, we have moved even higher in the elite ledger)

[Vlad2Vlad]

Can you please update this info, I cannot find any other estimation like this on the forum

According to your estimation, I`m a bitcoin elite in the top percentages, it's really good


(Plus now that new users come from Phillipines and SE-Asia with low bitcoin balances, we have moved even higher in the elite ledger)

I'm curious, what is the bottom end of being a Bitcoin "Elite"?  Thx.

BTW, Lots of people are gonna dump their BTC with the coming scare tactics by bankers  [in the next 39-60 days] so this list is about to be consolidated. 

Cheers?