Distribution of bitcoin wealth by owner

[Vlad2Vlad]

......

If he were smart he'd get an Israeli citizenship.  That's what I would do (even though I already have US and EU citizenships) and That would at least give him a chance.

Why did you choose that citizenship?  Israel is more or less in the U.S. pocket.....

Because they fight for theirs like no other nation.  But I'm not sure they would do that if he's not Jewish by blood.

[Moria843]

TL;DR:  As a result of analyzing the "Mt.Gox leak", the number of bitcoin holders is likely 1.0 millions. Of these,
* the 400 bitcoin millionaires with at least BTC2,000 hold 40% of bitcoins.
* 100,000 owners with BTC10-BTC2,000 ($5,000-$1,000,000) hold 50% of the bitcoins.
* 900,000 owners have a holding of BTC0.002-BTC10, valued at $1-$5,000, and hold 10% of the bitcoins

This is NOT a largest addresses/wallets -list, we are talking about largest owners here. An owner can have many wallets, and a wallet can have many addresses.



22. Apr 2014

#People	#Bitcoins	#TotalBitcoins
70	BTC10k+	3.6M
930	BTC1k-10k	2.2M
13k	BTC100-1k	3.0M
85k	BTC10-100	2.3M
250k	BTC1-10	0.8M
340k	BTC0.1-1	0.1M
230k	BTC0.01-0.1	0.0M
90k	BTC0.002-0.01	0.0M

So looking at above and doing a little more math, is it also correct to say that:
The top 1% of BTC holders hold 48% of all BTCs?
The top 9.8% of BTC holders hold 93% of all BTCs?

[rpietila]

TL;DR:  As a result of analyzing the "Mt.Gox leak", the number of bitcoin holders is likely 1.0 millions. Of these,
* the 400 bitcoin millionaires with at least BTC2,000 hold 40% of bitcoins.
* 100,000 owners with BTC10-BTC2,000 ($5,000-$1,000,000) hold 50% of the bitcoins.
* 900,000 owners have a holding of BTC0.002-BTC10, valued at $1-$5,000, and hold 10% of the bitcoins

This is NOT a largest addresses/wallets -list, we are talking about largest owners here. An owner can have many wallets, and a wallet can have many addresses.



22. Apr 2014

#People	#Bitcoins	#TotalBitcoins
70	BTC10k+	3.6M
930	BTC1k-10k	2.2M
13k	BTC100-1k	3.0M
85k	BTC10-100	2.3M
250k	BTC1-10	0.8M
340k	BTC0.1-1	0.1M
230k	BTC0.01-0.1	0.0M
90k	BTC0.002-0.01	0.0M

So looking at above and doing a little more math, is it also correct to say that:
The top 1% of BTC holders hold 48% of all BTCs?   <- NO, IT's THE TOP 0.1%!!
The top 9.8% of BTC holders hold 93% of all BTCs?

[Vlad2Vlad]

What?  So the top .1% of Bitcoin holders own nearly 50% of all the Bitcoin wealth?

That's nuts. I think we fiat it's like 1% own around 40% of all fiat.

I think we're heading in the wrong direction here.  Haha!

I wonder what the distribution is gonna look like with so many institutions buying Bitcoin now, albeit many of them may be buying it through Second Market, Fortress or Pantera so it may take a few quarters for us to really get a proper breakdown.  

But I'm gonna stick to my prediction that by Christmas 25% of Bitcoin will be owned by large banks, corps, Hedge Funds, govts, etc and over 50% in the next 18 months.  And since they can't get the .1% to sell very much they're gonna have to steal a lot of it.  

Like the 30,000 BTC going for auction this month, I'm certain institutions will buy those in a secret backroom deal.

And the massive Gox theft, I still say it was the govt and banks colluding and Karpeles was [for whatever reason] complicit with their plan.  

And to support that crazy theory look at the latest news which shows that the Silk Road Bitcoin, DPR Bitcoins and the [stolen] Gox Bitcoins, all moved within 72 hours of each other.  

What are the odds of that?

Late this year but especially next year should be massive for Bitcoin [and cryptos] and we should see massive change which nobody right now can even dream of.

[qora dan]

Does anyone now hoe the silk road bitcoins will be auctioned?

[Vlad2Vlad]

Does anyone now hoe the silk road bitcoins will be auctioned?

Private auction.

You'd think public since this is public assets and they would get a lot more money at a public auction.

This means bankers and hedge funds have already bought them.

This also means we may see depressed Bitcoin prices for 2 weeks so they can steal, err, buy those 30,000 Bitcoins at below market price.

[JorgeStolfi]

Does anyone now hoe the silk road bitcoins will be auctioned?

By public auction, as with any other seized property:
http://www.usmarshals.gov/assets/2014/bitcoins/

[RAJSALLIN]

Why would the US government auction of these coins if they are trying to accumulate? Even if it's some pre settled intra deal it doesn't make sense. They could easily just have given the coins to Yellen instead if they were in fact trying to build a large bitcoin holding.

[JorgeStolfi]

Why would the US government auction of these coins if they are trying to accumulate? Even if it's some pre settled intra deal it doesn't make sense. They could easily just have given the coins to Yellen instead if they were in fact trying to build a large bitcoin holding.

I don't know why people think that the US government is trying to to buy their way into bitcoin, or is scared of it.  They have much cheaper and simpler ways to effectively kill it if they wanted to.  Look at what China already did, without even wanting to ban it ouright.

In fact I believe that the FBI are enthusiastic fans of bitcoin, as it is.  The Silk Road bust must have resulted in several promotions and many cookie points for the agents involved.  There are thousands other FBI agents who must be pining for another opportunity like that: to catch a big illegal business, used and run by naive nerds with no close connections to politicians or drug cartels, with all the necessary evidence in the open blockchain that cannot be challenged in court and that they can get at without wiretapping and warrants...

[rpietila]

What?  So the top .1% of Bitcoin holders own nearly 50% of all the Bitcoin wealth?

That's nuts. I think we fiat it's like 1% own around 40% of all fiat.

Haha. In fiat, a collective of perhaps 10 real decision makers controls all of it. Including 60% of corporations, and by extension of lawmaking, almost all the rest of the business also.

But I'm gonna stick to my prediction that by Christmas 25% of Bitcoin will be owned by large banks, corps, Hedge Funds, govts, etc and over 50% in the next 18 months. And since they can't get the .1% to sell very much they're gonna have to steal a lot of it.

And to support that crazy theory look at the latest news which shows that the Silk Road Bitcoin, DPR Bitcoins and the [stolen] Gox Bitcoins, all moved within 72 hours of each other.  

Astute observation. Outright stealing is not the only way to acquire control over something, though. With corporations, it is much more indirect. The battle is not whether people have access to certain accounts in a ledger but whether people can pursue their happiness freely without interference from the thugs and goons working for banksters and masquerading as our elected leaders. Certainly putting all bitcoiners in jail is an interference of this right, but it can be achieved also by other means.

[Vlad2Vlad]

Why would the US government auction of these coins if they are trying to accumulate? Even if it's some pre settled intra deal it doesn't make sense. They could easily just have given the coins to Yellen instead if they were in fact trying to build a large bitcoin holding.

A)  It's seized property so they have to sell it.

B)  They would look suspicious not selling the Bitcoins.

And nobody says they're not gonna sell it to some shill company which works with them, like Google (lol) or JP Morgan.  

And the govt is NOT trying to kill Bitcoin and they sure aren't scared or terrified of it.  The govt, banks and corporations have the most to gain from the Bitcoin Protocol, IN THAT ORDER.

People need to stop regurgitating Andreas' idiotic lies.  And the govt can easily control Bitcoin unless you guys think it's impossible for them to hijack a pool like Ghash.io.  They forcefully [and legally] took over corporate giants like Microsoft, Google and Apple but there's no way they can ever control or get a backdoor into a mining pool?

Hahaa.  The stupid shit Andreas Antonopoulos spews sometimes is absurdly painful.  What's sad is that lots of newbies actually listen to him and repeat it.

Banks, Corporations and Governments LOVE Bitcoin [this is why Bitcoin is unstoppable and will hit $10,000+ next year with ease] and they can easily Centralize it and Control it [and any other Crypto Currency].  

Welcome to the BlockChain!

[Vlad2Vlad]

I stand corrected regarding who controls fiat.  I was thinking of those who own the wealth. 

But yes, the heads of the central banks and the IMF, World Bank, etc., these handful of people literally control about 98% of all the fiat in the world. 

I think there are now only 5 counties left on the whole planet without a Rothschild private bank as a central bank.

And those countries, coincidentally, are the ones on our list of must attack for various Political reasons.

So in that regard, Bitcoin is infinitely more innocent and free but one must see how quickly that is changing for Bitcoin (and any crypto which rises up) as the powers that be will work hard to centralize it and seize control of it.

And frankly, I do not see how anyone can stop them.  It's impossible.

So then, the best one can hope for is to be able to profit and then (the hard part) to hope that they will allow you to enjoy your legal monetary gains. 

My gut feeling is that they will confiscate massive wealth from guys like Roger Ver with the push of a button and they'll cite some retroactive crime nobody knew existed.  And this is the bad part about the Bitcoin protocol, anyone with the right power can take everything you own away in a matter of seconds as everything will be in the blockchain. 

ZERO anonymity and ZERO decentralization.  Not now of course, the government and banks have a few more steps before they turn it all into Fiat 2.0 with teeth and shackles.

[rpietila]

And this is the bad part about the Bitcoin protocol, anyone with the right power can take everything you own away in a matter of seconds as everything will be in the blockchain.

Bad part of you is that you are a fearmongrel. Bitcoin is the most difficult asset to confiscate away from you, and when that is prone to change (which it probably will in the future), the libertarians have already migrated their wealth to another chain that retains their liberty.

Yes torture is always an option, but resorting to that means that the underlying protocol is sound. Otherwise they could just enslave you without bothering to even notify you, which is what is currently practiced.

ADD: Most of the western world is so hopelessly clueless concerning propaganda that they violently oppose even a hint that they might have been brainwashed since childhood (even though the evidence is all around us) and yet as violently attack every photoshop manipulation of the rogue governments, whose rogueness happens to 100% coincide with who owns their monetary supply, as you mentioned.

[BitChick]

And this is the bad part about the Bitcoin protocol, anyone with the right power can take everything you own away in a matter of seconds as everything will be in the blockchain.

Bad part of you is that you are a fearmongrel. Bitcoin is the most difficult asset to confiscate away from you, and when that is prone to change (which it probably will in the future), the libertarians have already migrated their wealth to another chain that retains their liberty.

Yes torture is always an option, but resorting to that means that the underlying protocol is sound. Otherwise they could just enslave you without bothering to even notify you, which is what is currently practiced.

ADD: Most of the western world is so hopelessly clueless concerning propaganda that they violently oppose even a hint that they might have been brainwashed since childhood (even though the evidence is all around us) and yet as violently attack every photoshop manipulation of the rogue governments, whose rogueness happens to 100% coincide with who owns their monetary supply, as you mentioned.

True!  And it feels impossible to even have a rational conversation with some people.  Granted, we all see the world through the lens of our culture and upbringing, but those that are wise can try to take off those "glasses" and try to see things from a more neutral mindset.  Most just pridefully think that they "know it all" though. 

[Moria843]

The auction will account for only about 0.3% of bitcoins but no telling how it will affect the price. If looking to buy, may be best to wait after auction. Seems a shame it's only open to those who can afford the 3000 block of coins or about $1.7 M. So much for the Gov making it easy for the small guy. Seems like they could have had some smaller blocks for sale - maybe blocks of 100.

[boumalo]

The auction will account for only about 0.3% of bitcoins but no telling how it will affect the price. If looking to buy, may be best to wait after auction. Seems a shame it's only open to those who can afford the 3000 block of coins or about $1.7 M. So much for the Gov making it easy for the small guy. Seems like they could have had some smaller blocks for sale - maybe blocks of 100.

Maybe some are driving the market price down to get a better deal during the auctions

It is easier for them to sell 3000 at a time

[Vlad2Vlad]

The Bitcoin "public" auction:


-  You needed at least $200,000 on deposit just to bid.

-  They won't tell us who won the auction.

-  They won't tell us what the wining bid(s) were.


I don't see what was so "public" about this Bitcoin auction.

[wachtwoord]

The Bitcoin "public" auction:


-  You needed at least $200,000 on deposit just to bid.
-  They won't tell us who won the auction.
-  They won't tell us what the wining bid(s) were.


I don't see what was so "public" about this Bitcoin auction.

$200k was prequalification normal (20%) for this type auctions, even for seized cars/trucks/gold
They will tell you who won once the secure the funds from winning bids (due by July 7th)
The will tell you what the winning bid was

Even if this takes a FOIA (Freedom of Information Act) to do so, which I dont think it will

Cool, so this information will definitely be publically available!

[JorgeStolfi]

The Bitcoin "public" auction:


-  You needed at least $200,000 on deposit just to bid.
-  They won't tell us who won the auction.
-  They won't tell us what the wining bid(s) were.


I don't see what was so "public" about this Bitcoin auction.

$200k was prequalification normal (20%) for this type auctions, even for seized cars/trucks/gold
They will tell you who won once the secure the funds from winning bids (due by July 7th)
The will tell you what the winning bid was

Even if this takes a FOIA (Freedom of Information Act) to do so, which I dont think it will

Cool, so this information will definitely be publically available!

USMS notice of the auction:
http://www.usmarshals.gov/assets/2014/bitcoins/
FAQ of the same (check items 10 and 11):
http://www.usmarshals.gov/assets/2014/bitcoins/faqs.pdf

[wachtwoord]

The Bitcoin "public" auction:


-  You needed at least $200,000 on deposit just to bid.
-  They won't tell us who won the auction.
-  They won't tell us what the wining bid(s) were.


I don't see what was so "public" about this Bitcoin auction.

$200k was prequalification normal (20%) for this type auctions, even for seized cars/trucks/gold
They will tell you who won once the secure the funds from winning bids (due by July 7th)
The will tell you what the winning bid was

Even if this takes a FOIA (Freedom of Information Act) to do so, which I dont think it will

Cool, so this information will definitely be publically available!

USMS notice of the auction:
http://www.usmarshals.gov/assets/2014/bitcoins/
FAQ of the same (check items 10 and 11):
http://www.usmarshals.gov/assets/2014/bitcoins/faqs.pdf

I mean the winner(s) and the winning bids of course.