Law Enforcement Attending Bitcoin Meetups Undercover?

[winnate]

I'd assume there LE who are genuinely interested in it

[1713579978]

1713579978

[1713579978]

1713579978

[BuhTuglia]

Anyways, it dawned on me that law enforcement is attending bitcoin meetups undercover.  The FBI, state of NY, etc have tons of money to run such an operation.

It just feels weird to have people pretend they know bitcoin and then try to be friends with you even when you know you have not broken any laws.  Makes me paranoid to mentally play, "Spot the fed", while at a bitcoin meetup.  It also feels like an invasion of privacy.

Thoughts?  Am I paranoid?  Should everyone be?  Maybe I have been watching too much breaking bad.

I'm pretty there are agents of various kinds attending meetups, and acting as both buyers and sellers on LocalBitcoins.

I was at a public park on Tuesday and ended up in what I thought was just a random conversation with a stranger, but after thinking about the kinds of questions he was asking I'm not sure how random it really was.

Government spies are everywhere,
They're in our food and in our hair,
Lurking in their secret lair,
Counting dollars!

Thank you Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers(tm)!

Oh, Damn, I just probably went on a list somewhere, for reading subversive comics...

[The Bitcoin Co-op]

I'll be on the lookout. Authorities are banned from my events

[chipug]

As everyone knows law enforcement is all over these forums.  They sure keep quite.  Maybe because they dont't want to taint evidence with forum posts which could be used against them in the court of law.

Anyways, it dawned on me that law enforcement is attending bitcoin meetups undercover.  The FBI, state of NY, etc have tons of money to run such an operation.

It just feels weird to have people pretend they know bitcoin and then try to be friends with you even when you know you have not broken any laws.  Makes me paranoid to mentally play, "Spot the fed", while at a bitcoin meetup.  It also feels like an invasion of privacy.

Thoughts?  Am I paranoid?  Should everyone be?  Maybe I have been watching too much breaking bad.

Ever occur to you that a law enforcement officer there not in uniform might be there out of personal interest? or do you only get to use bitcoin with certain careers now?

[Stephen Gornick]

The paranoia is strong with this one.

Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't after you.
 - Joseph Heller

Seriously though...., don't dismiss this as a risk.   If in a couple years Bitcoin rises 50x from its current value, just like it did in that past couple years, the response by the State will likely be to round up those responsible.  And the surveillance they do now just helps them justify their case.    Did a trade on LocalBitcoins?    That might be enough to hold a person for a few weeks on suspicion of operating as a money transmitter without a license.      How would "they" prove it"?   Well, LocalBitcoins sends confirmation of each trade, in clear text, to your e-mail.   Hinted that you might like to light up?   Well, even if ten thousand people just like you in your part of town do the same thing what if you happened to be the one that got the knock on the door?    Coincidence?   Nope!

We know the the tools necessary  (Tor, GPG, mixers, shared send, etc.) but we (or most of us, myself included) don't use them.

We are doing nothing to prepare for the day they go on the offensive with regard to Bitcoin.

[Anon136]

Who cares. Don't break laws when using bitcoin. You should be fine.

i wish it was that simple. unfortunately EVERYONE is a felon. the average normal neighbor joe commits 3 felonies a day. you cant just "not break the law". not even a law professor knows how to do that.

[Lohoris]

i wish it was that simple. unfortunately EVERYONE is a felon. the average normal neighbor joe commits 3 felonies a day. you cant just "not break the law". not even a law professor knows how to do that.

Much true, unfortunately.

I've been around long enough to remember a sting operation in Europe where a seller of bitcoins was arrested after selling bitcoins to undercover agents.

Lol "in Europe". Where and when, exactly?

[Pente]

There may be a silver lining to the FBI reading these forums. From reading the DPR indictment, I felt that they were careful to differentiate between the illegitimacy of silk road vs. the legitimacy of bitcoin. I suspect that some of these FBI guys may secretly have bitcoin fever just like us. This could (hopefully) undermine any full scale attack by the U.S. government against bitcoin.

[Cryddit]

Are you serious? An all out attack on bitcoin would be a stupid and pointless thing for them to do.  Consider this. Bitcoin allows some privacy but not too much.  That is probably the best scenario for law enforcement purposes in the USA.

The point is that it's possible to catch people like DPR, but still private enough for most people to use most of the time.  A "hard" crypto currency that used full link encryption and message mixes as part of the basic protocol would probably replace it and that would be a full on disaster from their point of view.

Bitcoin is law friendly enough to regulate and tax and they'll only lose that quality if they press an attack.

[hamiltino]

What are the feds going to do. Find satoshi? lol

beauty about bitcoin is that there is no figure head to point fingers to. Hard to brain-wash the public.

[tvbcof]

The paranoia is strong with this one.

Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't after you.
 - Joseph Heller

Seriously though...., don't dismiss this as a risk.   If in a couple years Bitcoin rises 50x from its current value, just like it did in that past couple years, the response by the State will likely be to round up those responsible.  And the surveillance they do now just helps them justify their case.    Did a trade on LocalBitcoins?    That might be enough to hold a person for a few weeks on suspicion of operating as a money transmitter without a license.      How would "they" prove it"?   Well, LocalBitcoins sends confirmation of each trade, in clear text, to your e-mail.   Hinted that you might like to light up?   Well, even if ten thousand people just like you in your part of town do the same thing what if you happened to be the one that got the knock on the door?    Coincidence?   Nope!

We know the the tools necessary  (Tor, GPG, mixers, shared send, etc.) but we (or most of us, myself included) don't use them.

We are doing nothing to prepare for the day they go on the offensive with regard to Bitcoin.

I don't expect that 'ex post facto' principles will be tossed out the window readily.  There would be so much collateral damage that it would be a poor strategy decision in most scenerios.  Bitcoin is clearly to most not illegal now, and although there is a much higher percentage of blatantly criminal activity in the ecosystem, it is not dominant enough that a majority of those effected by a cross-the-board crack-down would be guilty.  And the userbase is growing daily.  Many people would have a friend or relative effected if some sort of totalitarian abuse happened across the board and out of the blue.

I think it is almost a certainty clear to all by now that there are individual 'dossiers' kept on every citizen of the US (and probably of the world), and that a variety of algorithms constantly sift through the every increasing collection of data.  It is very probable that individuals are tagged with all sorts of flags, and that different flags are used to select different types of analytic regimes.  I would be completely surprised if an effort to identify persons with an interest in Bitcoin are not underway and do not produce certain kinds of flags.  If there comes a point when an attempt to crack down on Bitcoin is chosen as a policy, I would not be surprised at all to see those with a history of involvement with Bitcoin be readily identified.  Whether it would result in a the old-school 'knock on the door' is less clear to me.

[ekiro]

As everyone knows law enforcement is all over these forums.  They sure keep quite.  Maybe because they dont't want to taint evidence with forum posts which could be used against them in the court of law.

Anyways, it dawned on me that law enforcement is attending bitcoin meetups undercover.  The FBI, state of NY, etc have tons of money to run such an operation.

It just feels weird to have people pretend they know bitcoin and then try to be friends with you even when you know you have not broken any laws.  Makes me paranoid to mentally play, "Spot the fed", while at a bitcoin meetup.  It also feels like an invasion of privacy.

Thoughts?  Am I paranoid?  Should everyone be?  Maybe I have been watching too much breaking bad.

That would just be stupidly insane!

I don't think it's something to worry about. Especially if your not doing anything illegal. They would haven't reason to target you.

You would think the 'authorities' have better things to work on...

[Alpaca Bob]

I'd like to hear more from Genjix please...

Especially if his comments on this forum come at the expense of mainstream media outlets.  I may have never been so embarrassed of Bitcoin as when he proposed that the solution to theft in the community was that other participants would feel sorry for the victim and make him/her whole via charity.  That was some interview on RT IIRC.  Opposite some Indian guy who had his shit together.

I lost a lot of respect for Taaki when he seemed to think it acceptable to take out a hit on someone who threatens one's business (a-la DPR.)  To me the guy is a fixture in the community in the same vein as Atlas, Bruce, Wright, etc...though he writes more code I suppose.  Thread-safe even!

First of all: http://youtu.be/mjQZNkiY7ds

Second: I feel sorry for you. Something must have gone terribly wrong in your life for feeling embarrassed when someone proposes to help each other out.

Third: As far as I am concerned Amir is a fucking hero, and he is the main reason I trust bitcoin the way I do. This must be one of the most genuine guys involved in this community, yet people like you give him shit because you don't like his look, or his ideology, or his attitude. It's despicable.

(I'm not aware of any remarks concerning taking hits out on anyone though, that would be something I absolutely do not condone.)

[TheButterZone]

I don't think it's something to worry about. Especially if your not doing anything illegal. They would haven't reason to target you.

The average person commits 3 felonies a day without actually victimizing anyone. Just a matter of time before one of the numerous laws/corrupt state makes exhaling CO2 without a gross pollution permit "illegal".

[tvbcof]

...
Second: I feel sorry for you. Something must have gone terribly wrong in your life for feeling embarrassed when someone proposes to help each other out.
...

I've got nothing against doing so.  That's a completely different thing than proposing it as a solution to the problem of theft and fraud in Bitcoinland, or using it as an example of how the problem is diminished.  That is fucking idiotic on it's face both to anyone with an ounce of sense both within and without the community.  That is why I found it embarrassing.

It reminds me of the unfortunately all to common instances of people who propose that there is no need for a social safety net because churches or some such will come along and help people out who are in need.  I don't think even very many of the people who propose it actually believe it.  They just use it as an excuse to justify other political motivations.  I'd actually have more respect for such people if they were honest and just said "Fuck old sick people...let them die in the street.  I've got mine and I wanna keep it."

[bernard75]

I don't think it's something to worry about. Especially if your not doing anything illegal. They would haven't reason to target you.

The average person commits 3 felonies a day without actually victimizing anyone. Just a matter of time before one of the numerous laws/corrupt state makes exhaling CO2 without a gross pollution permit "illegal".

Exactlly and most of them are hundreds or even thousands of years old from the crazy book.
I know you wont like this, but the interpretation of the 3rd amendment is one of them.

[TippingPoint]

I know you wont like this, but the interpretation of the 3rd amendment is one of them.

The 3rd amendment is one of the least controversial of the Constitution and is rarely litigated. As of 2009, it had never been the primary basis of a Supreme Court decision.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

[bernard75]

Yes, the NRA is a powerful lobby.
It still doesnt change the fact that what was true 300 years ago does apply today.

[Elwar]

There were law enfocement folks at our Ron Paul meetups too. Hell, Minnesota designated all Ron Paul supporters as potential terrorists.

[BitChick]

Hopefully they learn about Bitcoin at the meetups and buy some.    It would seem a smart investment for anyone and everyone to hold a few and it would make those hard earned dollars go a bit farther. 

I would think most Bitcoin users are just highly intelligent geeky types that are law abiding citizens so maybe their time would be well spent somewhere else?