Is this a drawback? ChipMixer!!

[bitgiveen]

Now before many of you jump to conclusions firstly i would like to say that this is a post related to merit system but it is different from other posts (Hopefully)
Now i'm not sure weather to call this is a drawback but it exists

I have quoted few posts below i'm not targeting anyone but i just want a sort of awareness

Stats for this week:

Average: 60.89 (11.95% increase from last week)
Median: 43 (4.88% increase from last week)
Total: 3471 (10.02% increase from last week)

This campaign now represents 3.26% (2.19% increase from last week) of all merits given on the forum. (3471/106434)

I noticed that every week while making payments darkstar posts this message regarding the merit stats but if you all notice the merits most people in chipmixer campaign have received is either exchanged between them or they have received from posting in meta

Let's ignore the first part of the above line and concentrate on the bold part
I have also noticed in order to earn merit without posting in those merit giveaway thread or farming from alt account the only way possible is by posting in meta as that's literally the only place where someone can receive merit , there is barely anyone who receives merits for his reply to a discussion which isn't in the meta section

Here's a example of TryNinja a user enrolled in chipmixer campaign

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=merit;u=557798 - If you notice 80% of the merits he received on posts is from the meta section

Here's another example take a look at Pharmacist merits - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=merit;u=487418 most are from meta

If not from meta another easy way of getting merits is by starting a merit giveaway thread - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2968050.msg30499459#msg30499459

I only found HeRetik who actually received merit from his contribution https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=merit;u=99837

Again i'm not attacking users enrolled in chipmixer they all have constructive posts this is just to create a awareness of how exactly the merit system is working , i'm sure there are many more people who receive merits from posting in meta but i specifically stuck to chipmixer

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[The Sceptical Chymist]

Yah, so I'm failing to see your point here--I post a lot in meta because I find the goings-on of the forum quite interesting, not because I'm seeking merit points.  I don't need merits, because I can't rank up any more than I have.

I've also said this multiple times, but I'll reiterate it here:  I'm fairly ignorant about how bitcoin works.  I don't know much about the math behind crypto, so that leaves me ignorant about a lot of things in many sections of bitcointalk.  I also am not a trader, and I don't gamble so I don't post in threads dealing with those things. 

In fact, the reason I joined this forum in the first place was more for the social interaction than anything else (though I do use and support bitcoin).  So naturally the sections I post in are Meta, Reputation, Scam Accusations, and one or two others exclusively. 

Bitcoin Discussion and Economics are shitposter-magnet sections anyway, and anything I write there isn't going to get read anyway.  I'm not posting in Meta for any purpose other than the interaction with members who also post there frequently.  I'll repeat it:  It's not for merits.

Also, look at the merits I've left for other users.  Yes, some of them have been to other Chipmixer members, but I'd say the vast majority are NOT.  Nor am I sending merits to anyone to boost DarkStar_'s weekly statistics about how awesome the Chipmixer people are (which is true). 

Hope that clears things up about me at least.

[bitgiveen]

Yah, so I'm failing to see your point here--I post a lot in meta because I find the goings-on of the forum quite interesting, not because I'm seeking merit points.  I don't need merits, because I can't rank up any more than I have.

I've also said this multiple times, but I'll reiterate it here:  I'm fairly ignorant about how bitcoin works.  I don't know much about the math behind crypto, so that leaves me ignorant about a lot of things in many sections of bitcointalk.  I also am not a trader, and I don't gamble so I don't post in threads dealing with those things. 

In fact, the reason I joined this forum in the first place was more for the social interaction than anything else (though I do use and support bitcoin).  So naturally the sections I post in are Meta, Reputation, Scam Accusations, and one or two others exclusively. 

Bitcoin Discussion and Economics are shitposter-magnet sections anyway, and anything I write there isn't going to get read anyway.  I'm not posting in Meta for any purpose other than the interaction with members who also post there frequently.  I'll repeat it:  It's not for merits.

Also, look at the merits I've left for other users.  Yes, some of them have been to other Chipmixer members, but I'd say the vast majority are NOT.  Nor am I sending merits to anyone to boost DarkStar_'s weekly statistics about how awesome the Chipmixer people are (which is true). 

Hope that clears things up about me at least.

Don't get me wrong the whole idea of why i made this posts is more about receiving merits i have no issues with you or any member sending merits i just wanted to show the drawback of merit system.

[Lauda]

For the sake of decentralization of merit distribution, this doesn't look good.

..but if you all notice the merits most people in chipmixer campaign have received is either exchanged between them or..

Especially if this is true. I'm saying 'if' because I have not verified this claim.

or they have received from posting in meta

That is not an issue.

[bitgiveen]

For the sake of decentralization of merit distribution, this doesn't look good.

..but if you all notice the merits most people in chipmixer campaign have received is either exchanged between them or..

Especially if this is true. I'm saying 'if' because I have not verified this claim.

Again i don't want this to be taken to another merit farming thread if you want i can easily find out users exchanging between themselves and i did mention such activity in the main post above you can go through it.

or they have received from posting in meta

That is not an issue.

The reason why i considered this as a issue is because this is the current reality posting in meta is the only way people are actually able to gain any merit.

[LoyceV]

For the sake of decentralization of merit distribution, this doesn't look good.

True. The Meta-board gets a lot of Merit, but I expect this to become less over time. You could argue the people using Meta are most aware of the Merit-system, and use it more.

there is barely anyone who receives merits for his reply to a discussion which isn't in the meta section

I disagree. I have received and sent many (s)Merits outside of Meta.

i'm sure there are many more people who receive merits from posting in meta but i specifically stuck to chipmixer

This whole thread has nothing to do with ChipMixer. All Merit data is publicly available, you can do a complete analysis of the total Merits per board. I'm still planning to do this myself, but lack of time (and being ill) caused some delays.

The reason why i considered this as a issue is because this is the current reality posting in meta is the only way people are actually able to gain any merit.

Right after the introduction of Merit, Meta was almost exclusively filled with Merit-threads. It was indeed a quick way to earn some Merits, but as expected, the number of threads about Merit went down already.

[bitgiveen]

there is barely anyone who receives merits for his reply to a discussion which isn't in the meta section

I disagree. I have received and sent many (s)Merits outside of Meta.
[/quote]

This is the reason you are not included in the list i have seen you merit stats and they are from various sources i got no problem for you

Didn't quote the post about you saying this has nothing to do with chipmixer well actually it does , every weel i see people posting with pride that they will receive the most merit next week but in reality the merit they receive isn't because of there posts but due to the above reasons

[DarkStar_]

I noticed that every week while making payments darkstar posts this message regarding the merit stats but if you all notice the merits most people in chipmixer campaign have received is either exchanged between them

Source? I took a look at the people with the most merits and it doesn't seem like any of them were trading. If you have any specific examples, send me a PM or post them here and I'll take a closer look. Trading/exchanging is not at all my purpose of posting the stats, and I can stop if anyone really cares. They're in the spreadsheet anyway and it's mostly for my curiosity.

every weel i see people posting with pride that they will receive the most merit next week but in reality the merit they receive isn't because of there posts but due to the above reasons

Source? I haven't seen anyone do that, and I read the posts of all my campaign members (duh). Closest I've seen might have been bill gator's attempt at catching up to LoyceV, but I don't think that really qualifies.

Let's ignore the first part of the above line and concentrate on the bold part
I have also noticed in order to earn merit without posting in those merit giveaway thread or farming from alt account the only way possible is by posting in meta as that's literally the only place where someone can receive merit , there is barely anyone who receives merits for his reply to a discussion which isn't in the meta section

Take a look at Development & Technical Discussion - that's a great board for merits. Meta seems to be one of the top ways to get merits right now due to the heavy activity by merit sources/people with merits, and actually has quality discussions for the most part. Boards like Bitcoin Discussion or Gambling Discussion are filled with so many spam threads, so I doubt many people with merits like to browse those sections.

..but if you all notice the merits most people in chipmixer campaign have received is either exchanged between them or..

Especially if this is true. I'm saying 'if' because I have not verified this claim.

Not true. (but of course, I have obvious bias in this - I'd suggest taking a look yourself)

[Cobalt9317]

There must be something wrong in this thread or in O.P.

Can we get it straight are you implying that those merit received by the pharmacist and tryninja is only in meta section? or are they reciprocating the sendable merit

AFAIK you can also receive a merit in Technical Discussion and Serious/Ivory Discussion 

[digaran]

First let me say that I'm not the OP here, I would say whatever it is with this account. if you see a merit source sending merits to a post of a Chipmixer participant in a thread where other meritorious posts exist, if the amount of merit is significant and if there is a pattern for them repeating the same thing. Post your evidence.

Do you see any considerable amount of merits given to a post, while other posts deserved those merits? post links. as a merit source, I have decided not giving any merits from my source merit to any campaign manager and any of the members enrolled in the same campaign with me. just to avoid the same thing happening here.

[Thirdspace]

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=merit;u=557798 - If you notice 80% of the merits he received on posts is from the meta section

Here's another example take a look at Pharmacist merits - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=merit;u=487418 most are from meta

If not from meta another easy way of getting merits is by starting a merit giveaway thread - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2968050.msg30499459#msg30499459

---snip---
Again i'm not attacking users enrolled in chipmixer they all have constructive posts this is just to create a awareness of how exactly the merit system is working , i'm sure there are many more people who receive merits from posting in meta but i specifically stuck to chipmixer

it's because currently people flock to Meta section discussing a lot about merit and its effects
if only merit was introduced last december, your observation would be completely different
in december a lot of members started threads in Bitcoin Technical Support for stuck, unconfirmed, problems tansactions
I'm pretty sure if merit was around at that time, a lot of merits swing by in that section

also since you tied the fact to paid signature, many sig camps don't pay posts in meta but chipmixer does
this also might be the reasons for signature wearers to post (or not) in meta section

[TryNinja]

"Here's a example of TryNinja a user enrolled in chipmixer campaign [...] If you notice 80% of the merits he received on posts is from the meta section"

Ok... let's take a look at this. This is every merit I have received so far:

1 - Web Wallets
4 - Services
8 - Electrum
15 - Meta
4 - Beginners & Help
7 - Bitcoin Technical Support
2 - Serious discussion
1 - Web Wallets
1 - Local > Português (Portuguese) > Brasil
3 - Service Discussion
5 - Development & Technical Discussion

Total merit: 51
From 'Meta' posts: 15

This means that only 30% of my received merits came from posts in the Meta board. 4 of them (26%) from a post were I busted a copy-paster and 6 (40%) I received on the first week of the merit system when I was giving my opinion on the new system. Great bullshit math OP!

This reminds me of something... did you know that 90% of all statistics are made up on the spot?

[DarkStar_]

This reminds me of something... did you know that 90% of statistics are made up on the spot?

Hmm, something seems off with that statistic, but I don't have any proof to argue that.

[gentlemand]

Don't think I've ever received a meta related merit, not that I hang out here very much.

Merit heavy users pool in certain places. There's a vast amount of merit handed out on the wall observer thread as so many old schoolers hang out and entertain each other there.

And I'd guess the meta section attracts either total noobs asking questions, or Bitcointalk's heavyweights who want to make it a better place and not much in between.

Ideas, observations and trickiness are all highlighted here so the constructive stuff naturally gets merited by people with smerit who appreciate the efforts to make it a better place.

[athanz88]

If you think that meta is the most merited section on this forum, well you are wrong mate, same goes with this saying of yours

I have also noticed in order to earn merit without posting in those merit giveaway thread or farming from alt account the only way possible is by posting in meta as that's literally the only place where someone can receive merit , there is barely anyone who receives merits for his reply to a discussion which isn't in the meta section

because one of members on this forum made this beautiful statistics about merit https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3093768.0 , thanks god i still remember his account. This thread prove all of your saying is wrong as meta is not the only meritorious section and there are many of merits been given outside meta. From this, we can learn it is better to have a statistic if we want to talk about others.

[hilariousetc]

People often make well thought out posts in Meta because they're usually making posts on how to benefit or improve the forum so they probably tend to get more merit as opposed to threads in Bitcoin Discussion which are 99% spambait these days and there's very little constructive opinion you can offer in those type of spam topics (and even if you did there's probably nobody but spammers browsing those sorts of threads so gaining merit will be less likely). I haven't looked into or counted how my merits are distributed but I'm guessing most of them will be in Meta because it's the sub board I'm most active in and I tend to reward posts that are looking at the bigger picture of improving the forum.

[BTCforJoe]

Hola. Another ChipMixerite here.

Since you seem to be targeting ChipMixer, why don't you showcase all of the participants' merit data, instead of simply claiming that

...the merits most people in chipmixer campaign have received is either exchanged between them or they have received from posting in meta

I'm fairly certain that you don't understand the definition of the word "most"




I would personally go through ChipMixer's individual member merit data, but I'm not the one who has a bone to pick with ChipMixer. But I'll make it easy for you and give you my merit data, as of now (March 22):

Received Merit Stats (breakdown by board):

BOARD	MERITS
Marketplace	102	58.0%
Trading Discussion	32	18.1%
Meta	17	9.7%
Bitcoin Discussion	11	6.2%
Serious Discussion	7	4.0%
Project Development	3	1.7%
Beginners & Help	2	1.1%
Economics	1	0.6%
Unknown/Deleted	1	0.6%
Total Earned	176	100%

I have now spent entirely way too much time to prove a point: that you don't have any clue what "most" or "80%" means. I was going to go through all of my sMerit stats, along with the stats for merits that I have sent/received to/from ChipMixerites vs. non-ChipMixerites, but given the rather large discrepancy with your claim vs. the true results, I'm no longer going to waste my time with disproving your fallacy of a "drawback".

Oh, and for the record:




You seem to be having a problem with how to words. Please try again.

#howtodoresearchbro

Edit: I wonder who's alt you are...

[BTCforJoe]

... as a merit source ...

Wait, so you are a merit source?

[TheQuin]

Hola. Another ChipMixerite here.

Since you seem to be targeting ChipMixer, why don't you showcase all of the participants' merit data, instead of simply claiming that

...the merits most people in chipmixer campaign have received is either exchanged between them or they have received from posting in meta

I'm fairly certain that you don't understand the definition of the word "most"

I was wondering about that as well. It turns out that 'most' means 20 out of 97 awarded to other ChipMixer participants in my case. 

I was surprised it was that low as a number of participants in the campaign share similar interests to me and are also very knowledgeable. They generally have something worthwhile to say in the threads that I want to read.

[Wendigo]

Who's or whose?  

Edit: I wonder who's alt you are...