Fort Hood soldiers say Army warned them off tea party, Christian groups

[Wilikon]

A follow up on that obvious fake foxnews link from the WSJ

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2013/10/25/marine-corp-shoots-down-unisex-caps/?dsk=y&mg=blogs-wsj&url=http%253A%252F%252Fblogs.wsj.com%252Fwashwire%252F2013%252F10%252F25%252Fmarine-corp-shoots-down-unisex-caps%253Fdsk%253Dy

The Marine Corps has shot down plans to make male and female leathernecks wear a unisex cap with their dress uniforms.

The Corps has been redesigning its female caps and was exploring the possibility of issuing a single cap for men and women. As we reported earlier Friday, a survey this week was meant to gauge interest in which of two options would work as a unisex cap—but critics said one new prototype was too feminine.

Marine Corps Commandant Gen. James Amos has put an end to the matter. “The survey was incorrect when published and has been pulled. The Marine Corps has zero intention of changing the male cover,” he said in a statement Friday.

Changing the hat design has been a decade-long process of military boards, field trials and prototypes. A Marine spokesman said the impetus for a potential unisex design was simple: “the manufacturer of the female cover is going out of business…a lot of uniform items aren’t cost effective to make,” he said.

In 2002, the Female Uniform Symposium decided the current women’s cap needed redesign because it was expensive and many complained it was not as spiffy as the male version.

In 2007, Marine officials approved a new, improved female cap and in 2012, as it neared implementation, the Commandant of the Marine Corps jumped in, delaying procurement of new caps and ordering experts to explore the idea of a “universal” cap to be worn by both sexes.

This summer a new cap was tested for “fit and function” with the majority of females approving of the design.

In online surveys, some Marines suggested the new female cap resembles the design worn by Marines in the early 1900s, most famously by Dan Daly, twice the recipient of the Medal of Honor and famous for yelling to his men in battle, “Come on, you sons of b—–s, do you want to live forever?”

Once it became known as the “Dan Daly cap,” the design became a candidate for universal wear. But some complain it exudes a feminine air, despite being named for an especially bellicose Marine. And a change in design would have cost the Corps an estimated $6.9 million, according to a Marines spokesman.

[Spendulus]

.....some complain it exudes a feminine air, despite being named for an especially bellicose Marine. And a change in design would have cost the Corps an estimated $6.9 million, according to a Marines spokesman.

so Obama does want the marines to wear girlie caps.

Maybe his old boyfriend likes them?

ROFL...

[Wilikon]

.....some complain it exudes a feminine air, despite being named for an especially bellicose Marine. And a change in design would have cost the Corps an estimated $6.9 million, according to a Marines spokesman.

so Obama does want the marines to wear girlie caps.

Maybe his old boyfriend likes them?

ROFL...

Reggie Love broke up with Obama? How sad.

[Spendulus]

.....some complain it exudes a feminine air, despite being named for an especially bellicose Marine. And a change in design would have cost the Corps an estimated $6.9 million, according to a Marines spokesman.

so Obama does want the marines to wear girlie caps.

Maybe his old boyfriend likes them?

ROFL...

Reggie Love broke up with Obama? How sad.

Glad we figured that out.

Now, back on topic...

  “The American public should be outraged that the U.S. Army is teaching our troops that evangelical Christians and tea party members are enemies of America and that they can be punished for supporting or participating in those groups,” Mr. Berry said, in Fox News. “These statements about evangelicals being domestic enemies are a serious charge.”

So are they enemies of America?

[BitchicksHusband]

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2013/10/24/exclusive-army-halts-training-program-that-labeled-christians-as-extremists/

The Secretary of the Army has ordered military leaders to halt all briefings on extremist organizations that labeled Evangelical Christian groups as domestic hate groups. The shutdown comes just four days after I reported exclusively about a briefing at Mississippi’s Camp Shelby that labeled the American Family Association as a domestic hate group.

“On several occasions over the past few months, media accounts have highlighted instances of Army instructors supplementing programs of instruction and including information or material that is inaccurate, objectionable and otherwise inconsistent with current Army policy,” Army Sec. John McHugh wrote to military leaders in a memorandum I obtained.

McHugh “directed that Army leaders cease all briefings, command presentations or training on the subject of extremist organizations or activities until that program of instruction and training has been created and disseminated,” Army spokesman Col. David Patterson, Jr., tells me.

The Chaplain Alliance for Religious Liberty welcomed the news and said it was about time the Secretary of the Army intervened.

“Men and women of faith – who have served the Army faithfully for centuries – have been likened to those who regularly threaten the peace and security of the United States,” said Ron Crews, executive director of the Chaplain Alliance. “It is dishonorable for any U.S. military entity to allow this type of improper characterization.”

Notice they're not saying it didn't happen...

[pedrog]

.....some complain it exudes a feminine air, despite being named for an especially bellicose Marine. And a change in design would have cost the Corps an estimated $6.9 million, according to a Marines spokesman.

so Obama does want the marines to wear girlie caps.

Maybe his old boyfriend likes them?

ROFL...

Reggie Love broke up with Obama? How sad.

Glad we figured that out.

Now, back on topic...

  “The American public should be outraged that the U.S. Army is teaching our troops that evangelical Christians and tea party members are enemies of America and that they can be punished for supporting or participating in those groups,” Mr. Berry said, in Fox News. “These statements about evangelicals being domestic enemies are a serious charge.”

So are they enemies of America?

Well, they are enemies of reason...

[Spendulus]

...back on topic...

 
  “The American public should be outraged that the U.S. Army is teaching our troops that evangelical Christians and tea party members are enemies of America and that they can be punished for supporting or participating in those groups,” Mr. Berry said, in Fox News. “These statements about evangelicals being domestic enemies are a serious charge.”

So are they enemies of America?

Well, they are enemies of reason...

Who is enemy of whose reason?

I submit that for every flaw in reason you may see in their group(s) I can find one in yours.

Let's start with the recent attempt by the Admin to display its 'reason'.

ATTACK SYRIA NOW!!!

[pedrog]

...back on topic...

 
  “The American public should be outraged that the U.S. Army is teaching our troops that evangelical Christians and tea party members are enemies of America and that they can be punished for supporting or participating in those groups,” Mr. Berry said, in Fox News. “These statements about evangelicals being domestic enemies are a serious charge.”

So are they enemies of America?

Well, they are enemies of reason...

Who is enemy of whose reason?

I submit that for every flaw in reason you may see in their group(s) I can find one in yours.

Let's start with the recent attempt by the Admin to display its 'reason'.

ATTACK SYRIA NOW!!!

I mean evangelical Christians are enemies of reason.

[Rassah]

Regarding the OP, I don't like the idea of other people killing some other people in my name. BUT, the idea of religious fanatics, who are blindly convinced that what they are doing is righteous, who don't fear death because they are convinced they will go to heaven, I dislike even more.

[Spendulus]

....

I mean evangelical Christians are enemies of reason.

Naw, that's not close to true.  What you likely mean to say is that they reason as well as anyone else on a thousand subjects.  Best place to eat, where to buy cheap stuff, how to balance a bank account, on and on.  But they don't reason the way you'd prefer on the subject of religion.  But even there there is ridiculously wide diversity in thought and behavior.  So we need to ascribe your assertion to the 'true evangelical Christian'.

He lives in a little cottage in the woods with the True Scotsman...



PS:  The "True Scotsman" refers to an error in logic.

But suppose you were in a position to influence who the soldiers interact with.  You in your heart, know that fundamentalist Christians and Tea Party groups are very, very wrong.  You sincerely believe that.  (suppose this is  true for a second)

Would it influence your behavior in telling the soldiers how to behave?  If so, why?  Why not other groups? 

[Wilikon]

Regarding the OP, I don't like the idea of other people killing some other people in my name. BUT, the idea of religious fanatics, who are blindly convinced that what they are doing is righteous, who don't fear death because they are convinced they will go to heaven, I dislike even more.

  Allahu Akbar!

The idea was, I believe "freedom of religion" not "freedom from religion". It does not matter if you believe or not, as soon as you agree the military has a right to control what people should believe or not doesn't compute with being a true libertarian. This state of mind is more likely compatible with a State of Minds that will "quiet the enemies of real Freedom".

The Army is warning not only from Christian groups but Muslim groups and Buddhist groups to, I am sure...

[Spendulus]

.....

The Army is warning not only from Christian groups but Muslim groups and Buddhist groups to, I am sure...

No, you are not sure of that. 

[Wilikon]

.....

The Army is warning not only from Christian groups but Muslim groups and Buddhist groups to, I am sure...

No, you are not sure of that. 

Yes, I am sure I was being cynical.

[Spendulus]

.....

The Army is warning not only from Christian groups but Muslim groups and Buddhist groups to, I am sure...

No, you are not sure of that.  

Yes, I am sure I was being cynical.

What has to be understood is that IF there were references to radical Muslims, don't associate with them, ETC (we know that was not the case because we have knowledge of how Major Hasad was treated)....

....You have a case where evangelical Christians are actually being equalized as extreme and radical alongside radical Muslims.

And we all know the differences between the two.  They are not remotely similar.  One turns the other cheek, the other massacres innocent people.

[Rassah]

And we all know the differences between the two.  They are not remotely similar.  One turns the other cheek, the other massacres innocent people.

The first one also bombs abortion clinics, kills gays and transsexuals, is typically very racist and jingoistic, and it is extremely likely that, if the law wasn't there to stop them from doing it, would be perfectly happy wth stoning sinners or burning them at the stake as well. Both are quite subject to irrational mob mentality.

[Spendulus]

And we all know the differences between the two.  They are not remotely similar.  One turns the other cheek, the other massacres innocent people.

The first one also bombs abortion clinics, kills gays and transsexuals, is typically very racist and jingoistic, and it is extremely likely that, if the law wasn't there to stop them from doing it, would be perfectly happy wth stoning sinners or burning them at the stake as well. Both are quite subject to irrational mob mentality.

Yes, you ARE trying to equalize the two.  But that doesn't work too well.  First let me object to your broad brush smear on "Christian groups and Tea party groups".  There is zero evidence that Tea party groups have been involved in any violence.  Zero.  Same for all Christian groups with tiny little exceptions.  IIRC all the Abortion clinic bombings were done by crazy individuals.  But yes, there is a tiny fringe of Christian extremism.

Here are some facts.

1.  Since 1983, eight people have been killed in the USA from abortion clinic violence.  How many from muslim violence?

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/AmericanAttacks.htm

3101 in 70 separate attacks in the USA.

2.  Kills gays and transsexuals?  Muslims do this routinely today.  Do Christians?  You might be thinking of the Matthew Shepard story.  The one you were lied to about.  Yeah, that one.

http://nypost.com/2013/10/28/uncomfortable-truth-behind-matthew-shepards-death/

3.  Is very racist and jingoistic?  I think this may be not an issue/or is equally an issue with either Muslim or Christian.  (not exactly NICE, but not in the same category as murder and violence).

4.  Perfectly happy with stony sinners or burning them at the stake.

No.  These practices occurred in isolated cultures of Christianity, a long time ago.  You can't support an assertion that Christians would be happy with those things today with facts.  Stoning sinners is done TODAY BY MUSLIMS.  Like, with girls that got raped - then they let the rapists go.  That's when they aren't busy chopping off hands and stuff.

So where you want to go with this equalizing stuff?

[Wilikon]

And we all know the differences between the two.  They are not remotely similar.  One turns the other cheek, the other massacres innocent people.

The first one also bombs abortion clinics, kills gays and transsexuals, is typically very racist and jingoistic, and it is extremely likely that, if the law wasn't there to stop them from doing it, would be perfectly happy wth stoning sinners or burning them at the stake as well. Both are quite subject to irrational mob mentality.

kills gays and transsexuals
What? Where? Iran?

[Wilikon]

I see where this thread is going.


Bill Maher, Michael Moore, Sharpton, and Richard Dawkins Battle Over the Sins of Islam
http://youtu.be/CLsxnMmhec4


Maher: Islam is only religion that kills you when you disagree with them
http://youtu.be/CVifGxlckAo


Liberals on Liberals mud fight regarding Islam.


Even a broken clock like Maher is right twice a day.

[pedrog]

1.  Since 1983, eight people have been killed in the USA from abortion clinic violence.  How many from muslim violence?

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/AmericanAttacks.htm

3101 in 70 separate attacks in the USA.

How many muslins have been killed by US troops, I don't mean muslins soldiers or "terrorists", I mean civilians, children?

This is not about religion, it's about politics and fighting an empire!

2.  Kills gays and transsexuals?  Yes, Muslims do this routinely today.  Do Christians?  You might be thinking of the Matthew Shepard story.  The one you were lied to about.  Yeah, that one.

http://nypost.com/2013/10/28/uncomfortable-truth-behind-matthew-shepards-death/

3.  Is very racist and jingoistic?  I think this may be not an issue with either Muslim or Christian.  (not exactly NICE, but not in the same category as murder and violence).

4.  Perfectly happy with stony sinners or burning them at the stake.

No.  These practices occurred in isolated cultures of Christianity, a long time ago.  You can't support an assertion that Christians would be happy with those things today with facts.  

Stoning sinners is done TODAY BY MUSLIMS.  Routinely, when they aren't busy chopping off hands and stuff.

So where you want to go with this equalizing stuff?

Not isolated, and not long ago:

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/africa/08/25/nigeria.child.witches/

You can find very graphical videos of people being burned alive because the Bible says "Do not allow a sorceress to live."

In several countries in Africa there is death penalty for homosexuals, these kind of propaganda is being lobbied and preached by christians.

There's plenty of guilt to throw around...

[Rassah]

Here are some facts.

1.  Since 1983, eight people have been killed in the USA from abortion clinic violence.  How many from muslim violence?

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/AmericanAttacks.htm

3101 in 70 separate attacks in the USA.

Don't forget, we are actually actively trying to kill them there. And that still doesn't prove one way or another whether the christian nucases would go on a killing spree if they weren't concerned about the law coming down on them. They are quite vocal and supporting about stoping abortion by any means, after all.

2.  Kills gays and transsexuals?  Muslims do this routinely today.  Do Christians?  You might be thinking of the Matthew Shepard story.  The one you were lied to about.  Yeah, that one.

http://nypost.com/2013/10/28/uncomfortable-truth-behind-matthew-shepards-death/

Yeah, no, not that one. More like this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_violence_against_LGBT_people_in_the_United_States#Violent_acts_against_LGBT_persons and even that is still a short lits. Used to be I would read about some gay person being beaten or killed almost every months just maybe 5 to 10 years ago. Typically people doing this are christian religious extremists.

3.  Is very racist and jingoistic?  I think this may be not an issue/or is equally an issue with either Muslim or Christian.  (not exactly NICE, but not in the same category as murder and violence).

That's true. They wait until we cross into their borders before shooting at us, unlike US military going into other countries, or the mexican border patrol rednecks taking potshots are illegals.

4.  Perfectly happy with stony sinners or burning them at the stake.

No.  These practices occurred in isolated cultures of Christianity, a long time ago.  You can't support an assertion that Christians would be happy with those things today with facts.

Are you sure about that? I'm not saying that all, or even the majority, of Christians are like that, but some of the religious zealotry out there (that has been caught on tape even) is downright scary 

So where you want to go with this equalizing stuff?

I will concede, Christian extremists are not AS crazy, insane, violent, and righteously-murderous as Muslim extremists. They are only somewhat crazy, insane, violent,  and murderous. (glad the KKK is almost gone, but we still have nutcases like the guy in Norway 2 years ago)