HODL mentality destroys the currency aspect of Bitcoin

[TheQuin]

From my perspective, it is an erroneous attitude. Real value comes from real usage, while speculation doesn't belong here. When people keep on holding, it limits the amount of bitcoins being traded - that's definitely true. And although it contributes to a higher price, this price rise doesn't add anything to real value. What it actually contributes to in the long run is extreme volatility because, as I said, supply diminishes and markets become more susceptible to liquidity storms.

So by that logic, gold has limited real value as it has limited real usage and the amount of gold being held in reserves by central banks makes gold more susceptible to liquidity storms.

[altercreed]

Satoshi Nakamoto created bitcoin to be use as digital currency for the people but it seems it's purpose has been altered to investment, thus, bitcoin has become a high value currency. But we can't blame those hodlers because they bought bitcoin and wanted to earn profit from in in a long term. So if the price will go down, of course, they will hodl more.

[btcmegastar]

I don't think so because people who are holding the Bitcoin will never harm themselves by selling them in the current situation of the market. I think they won't bother about the market fluctuation and keep holding them until their desired target is reached.

[Pitparker]

I don't think, with the longer hold necessarily amount of bitcoin available over the counter would be getting a little bit and this will make more expensive bitcoin. Thus it became a positive thing when you hold your coins in a long time.

[1Referee]

Yeah you said it right hodling and keeping Bitcoins for investment is not a joke because it is opposite on what Satoshi the founder and Bitcoin he want it to be.

It may sound a bit harsh, but Satoshi's 'vision' doesn't matter anymore, and it has been like that for years.

Sad reality but we cannot control anyone they can do whatever they want with their Bitcoins.

Why sad reality? Bitcoin offers people the freedom to do whatever they think is needed with their coins. Even if it's to buy drugs with, it's their choise, and their value.

Though they really don't understand or maybe they just grab the opportunity where potential in investment industry is profitable nowadays compared to having it spent to goods or services.

I think you don't understand how things work here. People aren't obliged to use Bitcoin in one specific way. If people see only value in Bitcoin as an investment tool, then it's their choise. If people want to hold Bitcoin as long term store of value tool, then it's their choise. People should understand that every form of usage, is allowing Bitcoin's utility to increase, and so does its price.

If there were no people holding their coins, the price would likely remain far below the $1000 level for ever. If there wasn't a thriving altcoin market, which makes sure hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions of Bitcoins, remain off the regular Bitcoin market, we wouldn't even manage to break through $500 and maintain it for a longer while. Be careful with what you guys wish for.

[Bouli]

Holding is good, i do it also with my fiat savings. But i do spend my crypto on goods also When i buy something from friends or other people, i always try to make the transaction in crypto, i love it

[bearexin]

Well, your submission is not far from the truth and that is the only factor that will help grow the market value of bitcoin not doubt.

I think that only positive information movement around Bitcoin can increase the demand for this coin, and it is tantamount to increasing its price. Well, while the popularity of Bitcoin is below the level, When it was back in 2017.

The popularity graph has shown decent increase regarding bitcoin and I don’t think so we ca exactly measure the popularity of bitcoin. Even if the users have decreased because of this hard dump, still the bitcoin is popular among them. The moment it starts increasing in value, these people will do anything to get the hold of one or two bitcoin. These are seasonal investors, cannot affect prices up to this level.

[redsun114]

I think yes because if you see the many people hold the bitcoin for many years and the value raise up to higher than $20,000 or more the currency possible will appreciate because they are hardwork and patient.

The statement was a little different but still you are right in your opinion too. As people are continuously working in bitcoins. Some of them are holding bitcoins even from last 3 or 4 years and some legends are saving them from 5 years and more.

All these traders or holders will be getting maximum of profit from bitcoins as their patience and work should be appreciated, and they will be achieving this.

[Barbatsutsa]

I think just the opposite because you can't even imagine what amounts of fiat money is not being used as a cash. It helps BTC's price to be on a certain level.

[burner2014]

I think just the opposite because you can't even imagine what amounts of fiat money is not being used as a cash. It helps BTC's price to be on a certain level.

That is right, but we cannot blame people who wants to hold bitcoin since that is the best potential way for them seeing the value of coin, we cannot control them besides all of us here wanted to have high bitcoin value.

[eminemcookie]

It seems like only a small fraction of bitcoins as well as other cryptocurrencies gets earned while the vast majority of the coins are bought. But when people buy coins, they obviously aim exclusively at selling them later at a higher price, which is what speculation basically consists in because it makes no economic sense to buy a cryptocurrency to spend it on goods when people can easily spend fiat instead. However, if the price goes down, people aren't going to spend their coins either. And whenever someone complains about prices going down, the only reply they receive is just to hold to their precious bitcoins, no matter what the price could or would be. I have yet to meet anyone telling these bag holders to spend their stashes on something useful.

Apparently, the HODL mentality kills the currency aspect of Bitcoin.

Actually its not destroying bitcoins but people who are holding their coins and not selling it in the market are really making the price of bitcoins increase even further because the demand is increasing but the supply is locked so expect a higher price when people is keep on holding.

From my perspective, it is an erroneous attitude. Real value comes from real usage, while speculation doesn't belong here. When people keep on holding, it limits the amount of bitcoins being traded - that's definitely true. And although it contributes to a higher price, this price rise doesn't add anything to real value. What it actually contributes to in the long run is extreme volatility because, as I said, supply diminishes and markets become more susceptible to liquidity storms.

It really comes down to utility vs price, holding is good for the price but it harms the potential for bitcoin to have a high utility. The holding contributes to speculation which leads to wild price swings that make bitcoin near unusable as a currency and limit its utility. Without some utility holding will become a pointless and useless exercise because there will be no demand.

And we seem to have already reached the point of saturation from where we can only roll downhill with minor rebounds and reversals. However, we can't deny the fact that crypto is quite useful in payments across the globe. Everyone knows its advantages and benefits, so there's no need to repeat them. It is quite possible that the most of Bitcoin's current price is due to plain speculation but the transactional utility is real and it won't go away just because of price hitting the floor. That thing accommodates at least some room for hope.

That's one thing that has always worried me about bitcoin in terms of an investment. It makes no difference from a utility perspective if bitcoin costs $10,000 or $1. As long as people are still converting fiat to btc, then sending btc and then converting the received btc back in to usd. They'll just send more or less bitcoin. The only real driver then for the price to increase is that there's so much demand and some people take advantage of that by holding.

In other words it only means that trading would be no longer helpful? i guess this is where it will be going then, but to some point i agree with you guys. Most of the times when people asked what to do in every crucial situation in the market, they will just say HODL for it. At some point yes it has good impact, while some people keep on holding and limited supply of bitcoin are circulating in the market, more and more the demand will rise, and as of now that there are new investors who only knew bitcoin recently, and it makes the market more competitive.

Transacting in bitcoin is what's important, because then the demand is from a utility perspective instead of a speculative one. If there is no use case and instead everyone held, there would soon be no demand for bitcoin other than speculative demand and that would quickly disappear as well. There does not need to be a huge amount of utility but some amount is pivotal, gold is an example of this, for the most part it's fairly useless but there are some use cases and so the holding mentality mixed with the limited demand for its utility is enough to keep the price trending upwards.

[Canis Majoris]

From my perspective, it is an erroneous attitude. Real value comes from real usage, while speculation doesn't belong here. When people keep on holding, it limits the amount of bitcoins being traded - that's definitely true. And although it contributes to a higher price, this price rise doesn't add anything to real value. What it actually contributes to in the long run is extreme volatility because, as I said, supply diminishes and markets become more susceptible to liquidity storms.

So by that logic, gold has limited real value as it has limited real usage and the amount of gold being held in reserves by central banks makes gold more susceptible to liquidity storms.

Gold has more than enough real value and utility, for example, as jewelry. If I'm not mistaken, over 50% of all gold produced annually is used in jewelry across the world. Apart from that, such countries as India, China, and Russia are ready to buy massive amounts of gold whenever its price declines a bit. In fact, only around 15% or so of all gold in the world is held by central banks and governments. In other words, there is real demand for it which supports its price at pretty constant levels.

[TheQuin]

Gold has more than enough real value and utility, for example, as jewelry. If I'm not mistaken, over 50% of all gold produced annually is used in jewelry across the world. Apart from that, such countries as India, China, and Russia are ready to buy massive amounts of gold whenever its price declines a bit. In fact, only around 15% or so of all gold in the world is held by central banks and governments. In other words, there is real demand for it which supports its price at pretty constant levels.

Gold's only utility beyond a store of wealth is as a shiny pet rock. People buy gold jewellery precisely for the reason that it does store wealth. It is easy to resell and recover your investment +/- change in gold price.

There are striking similarities in the reasons there is demand or gold and the reasons there is demand for Bitcoin.

It has happened over a much longer timescale with gold but there are also striking similarities in the charts.

https://www.tradingview.com/x/Z0AO8pk7/

[Canis Majoris]

Gold has more than enough real value and utility, for example, as jewelry. If I'm not mistaken, over 50% of all gold produced annually is used in jewelry across the world. Apart from that, such countries as India, China, and Russia are ready to buy massive amounts of gold whenever its price declines a bit. In fact, only around 15% or so of all gold in the world is held by central banks and governments. In other words, there is real demand for it which supports its price at pretty constant levels.

Gold's only utility beyond a store of wealth is as a shiny pet rock. People buy gold jewellery precisely for the reason that it does store wealth. It is easy to resell and recover your investment +/- change in gold price.

I'm sorry but that claim has little, if anything, to do with reality. People buy jewelry exclusively as ornamentations such as rings, chainlets, earrings, necklaces, etc. In fact, this is the very definition of jewelry. For investment purposes people buy gold bars and coins because jewelry is not very useful as a store of value. When you buy a piece of jewelry, the price of gold in it amounts only to a certain percentage. It is mostly craftwork, anyway. And if you decide to sell it, you won't be able to get the purchase price.

[TheQuin]

I'm sorry but that claim has little, if anything, to do with reality. People buy jewelry exclusively as ornamentations such as rings, chainlets, earrings, necklaces, etc. In fact, this is the very definition of jewelry. For investment purposes people buy gold bars and coins because jewelry is not very useful as a store of value. When you buy a piece of jewelry, the price of gold in it amounts only to a certain percentage. It is mostly craftwork, anyway. And if you decide to sell it, you won't be able to get the purchase price.

If that was true then imitations made with non-precious metals and gems would be valued equally. What I said is the reality. Gold derives its value from finite supply and the fact you can't fake it, just like Bitcoin.

[Canis Majoris]

I'm sorry but that claim has little, if anything, to do with reality. People buy jewelry exclusively as ornamentations such as rings, chainlets, earrings, necklaces, etc. In fact, this is the very definition of jewelry. For investment purposes people buy gold bars and coins because jewelry is not very useful as a store of value. When you buy a piece of jewelry, the price of gold in it amounts only to a certain percentage. It is mostly craftwork, anyway. And if you decide to sell it, you won't be able to get the purchase price.

If that was true then imitations made with non-precious metals and gems would be valued equally. What I said is the reality. Gold derives its value from finite supply and the fact you can't fake it, just like Bitcoin.

You offer a perfect example of what is called a non sequitur. High price for genuine jewelry doesn't mean that people buy it for the purpose of investing. It is simply pointless from an economic view-point. Those who are investing in precious metals buy coins and bars. Or do you seriously believe that when two people marry, they buy gold rings for investment purposes? Note that I don't reject the fact that high demand for gold and low supply of it account for the high prices of this precious metal. But the demand comes mostly from the glamor and personal adornment industry, but that has nothing to do with investing in precious metals.

[00DKM@]

In fact, I wonder if bitcoin has changed the way or the end goal. After the success and especially in 2017. bitcoin value is reversed when constantly encountered obstacles from communication, facebook, google, mtgox ... We all know that, Hold is the most beneficial thing for business. Because of the nature of the supply is dispersed and waiting from the miners. That is the right business perspective and profitability is the goal of all. It will not affect the bitcoin characteristics.

[Canis Majoris]

In fact, I wonder if bitcoin has changed the way or the end goal. After the success and especially in 2017. bitcoin value is reversed when constantly encountered obstacles from communication, facebook, google, mtgox ... We all know that, Hold is the most beneficial thing for business. Because of the nature of the supply is dispersed and waiting from the miners. That is the right business perspective and profitability is the goal of all. It will not affect the bitcoin characteristics.

I decline to accept this attitude as "the right business perspective", let alone "profitability for all" aspect of it simply because it is impossible for everyone to be or stay profitable in speculation. Bitcoin - as well as other cryptocurrencies - is essentially a zero-sum game as told by many and many times. And as I explained in OP, the HODL mentality is in fact quite detrimental for the long-term success of the whole crypto scene even though it may provide transitory, short-lived benefits for speculators and short-term investors.

[TheQuin]

You offer a perfect example of what is called a non sequitur.

You offer a perfect example of someone who doesn't understand something so therefore thinks it is illogical.

High price for genuine jewelry doesn't mean that people buy it for the purpose of investing.

I'm not saying they buy it for investment but that the choice of precious metals and gems performs that function. If they just wanted it for ornamental purposes why do they pay hundreds of times the price they need to?
What I am saying is the reason jewellery has been made from gold since time began is because of its limited supply and therefore its function as a store of value.

It is simply pointless from an economic view-point. Those who are investing in precious metals buy coins and bars.

Actually, serious investors will do it through ETFs as that makes much more sense if viewed purely from an economic standpoint. But again that misses the point. The only reason there is demand for gold through jewellery is because of its function as a store of wealth.

Or do you seriously believe that when two people marry, they buy gold rings for investment purposes?

Do you seriously think that is what I'm suggesting?

Note that I don't reject the fact that high demand for gold and low supply of it account for the high prices of this precious metal.

So you understand part of the picture.

But the demand comes mostly from the glamor and personal adornment industry, but that has nothing to do with investing in precious metals.

And that industry only exists because gold acts as a store of wealth.

[bitgolden]

Yeah you said it right hodling and keeping Bitcoins for investment is not a joke because it is opposite on what Satoshi the founder and Bitcoin he want it to be.

It may sound a bit harsh, but Satoshi's 'vision' doesn't matter anymore, and it has been like that for years.

Sad reality but we cannot control anyone they can do whatever they want with their Bitcoins.

Why sad reality? Bitcoin offers people the freedom to do whatever they think is needed with their coins. Even if it's to buy drugs with, it's their choise, and their value.

Though they really don't understand or maybe they just grab the opportunity where potential in investment industry is profitable nowadays compared to having it spent to goods or services.

I think you don't understand how things work here. People aren't obliged to use Bitcoin in one specific way. If people see only value in Bitcoin as an investment tool, then it's their choise. If people want to hold Bitcoin as long term store of value tool, then it's their choise. People should understand that every form of usage, is allowing Bitcoin's utility to increase, and so does its price.

If there were no people holding their coins, the price would likely remain far below the $1000 level for ever. If there wasn't a thriving altcoin market, which makes sure hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions of Bitcoins, remain off the regular Bitcoin market, we wouldn't even manage to break through $500 and maintain it for a longer while. Be careful with what you guys wish for.

For majority, bitcoin is an investment tool and they all look at it as a way of increasing capital. The thought of purchasing daily stuff does not even cross minds of such investors.  Whatever the reasons maybe, but this is the right way to look at bitcoin for the time being.

Once bitcoin will go mainstream, there are chances of it becoming stable and then people will use it like currencies are. But with a prediction of 30k dollars, the best is to buy bitcoin now and hold it.