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Author Topic: Did BFL mine with my unit for 3 weeks before shipping it to me?  (Read 18606 times)
labsbitforum
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October 27, 2013, 04:02:35 PM
 #21

I’m inclined to believe Josh’s categorical denial that BFL mines.  If this was something they always did with all customer equipment I would guess other hard evidence would have surfaced by now.  Not sure how long they have been attaching these stickers on the bottom of the PCBs but its pretty easy for people to check their units and see how these dates compare to their ship date.
 

I agree with many in these forums that after 30 some missed “two more weeks” estimated ship dates you have to call that intentionally deceptive.  Intentionally deceptive in the context of selling a product is fraud.  Josh is doing what he thinks is necessary to keep his company viable.  As others have pointed out, in this thread and others, most attempts to bring a viable product to market have ended in complete failure with people losing their investment and getting nothing.  The decision to no longer give refunds in this situation is also likely going to be a problem for BFL.  The FTC will take action on them and people living in the US do stand a pretty good chance litigating this if they decide to spend the time and money to do so.

I’m not defending Josh’s actions.  Just pointing out I can see why he has done what he did.  If he had not BFL likely would have collapsed and people like me would have lost our investment and got nothing.  I won’t get my money back as things stand.  I will recoup some of my investment and I have an interesting black box memento and story to tell friends…
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October 27, 2013, 04:11:51 PM
 #22

Alright, should I run through all the diff estimate vs. roi calculators that exist which show that basically no vendor is selling hardware that will pay for itself before it costs more to run than it is earning?  Or can you handle that on your own, then come back? 

Honestly, mining = race to the bottom.  People jumped on the BFL ship en masse then freaked out when they got delayed.  OMFG, a delay with experimental hardware, who would have guessed?  But that bandwagon left a long time ago.  Get a tissue, cry in the corner, then come back to add something valid.  Saying "These guys were late" once a week, every week, in a brand new thread does nothing, adds nothing, and only points out that people just can't get over it.  

If you're that hard off on finding a cause, look for companies basically dumping cancer water into public water sources, pharmas who sell drugs that can kill people with zero legal recourse, or technology companies who basically use slave labor for obtaining their rare earth minerals and turn a blind eye to it.  BFL makes Bitcoin mining hardware and was late on every estimate.  Josh is one employee out of a company who has delivered several generations of mining hardware, more than almost anyone on this forum can say.  

And for disclosure, no I don't have any monarchs on order, but if BFL catches up to the point where it is reasonable to order > ship within a week and their hardware is priced right I would purchase from them again because everything from my purchase to change of address to interactions with employees has been pleasant.  Not the same story for everyone, but otherwise they've lived up to their end of the bargain, albeit delivering late.
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October 27, 2013, 04:32:07 PM
 #23

And for disclosure, no I don't have any monarchs on order, but if BFL catches up to the point where it is reasonable to order > ship within a week and their hardware is priced right I would purchase from them again because everything from my purchase to change of address to interactions with employees has been pleasant.  Not the same story for everyone, but otherwise they've lived up to their end of the bargain, albeit delivering late.

That's a forgiving, balanced and commendable attitude. The main factor fuelling all these threads is the recurring theme of Josh being a deceptive, unhelpful, nasty individual. The whole story would have been totally different with a public figure who knew how to interact with people and isn't cynical in his use of language, manipulation of dates and shows a willingness to be frank with information regarding delays and the size of the company's order book.

The lesson learnt for me is only give money to people who are honest. I ordered a Jupiter in early August from KNC and by October 15th it was clear that the unit wasn't going to be delivered by the promised date. I asked for a refund and had the money back within 24 hours. That kind of honesty and integrity is such a sharp contrast to Josh's behaviour regarding Paypal refunds. I don't detest BFL, merely Josh. He didn't make the devices, just typed crap into forums and misled people.

"How are you justifying these as fair use?  They are clearly and unequivocally a copyright violation."
"I really want to know how you justify that under the fair use doctrine?  It does not conform to a single point of fair use."
Josh whining about people reusing his studio portrait shot on this forum. Can you copyright a copyright complaint? All Paypal refunds are final.
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October 27, 2013, 05:05:28 PM
 #24

Alright, should I run through all the diff estimate vs. roi calculators that exist which show that basically no vendor is selling hardware that will pay for itself before it costs more to run than it is earning?  Or can you handle that on your own, then come back? 

Honestly, mining = race to the bottom.  People jumped on the BFL ship en masse then freaked out when they got delayed.  OMFG, a delay with experimental hardware, who would have guessed?  But that bandwagon left a long time ago.  Get a tissue, cry in the corner, then come back to add something valid.  Saying "These guys were late" once a week, every week, in a brand new thread does nothing, adds nothing, and only points out that people just can't get over it.  

If you're that hard off on finding a cause, look for companies basically dumping cancer water into public water sources, pharmas who sell drugs that can kill people with zero legal recourse, or technology companies who basically use slave labor for obtaining their rare earth minerals and turn a blind eye to it.  BFL makes Bitcoin mining hardware and was late on every estimate.  Josh is one employee out of a company who has delivered several generations of mining hardware, more than almost anyone on this forum can say.  

And for disclosure, no I don't have any monarchs on order, but if BFL catches up to the point where it is reasonable to order > ship within a week and their hardware is priced right I would purchase from them again because everything from my purchase to change of address to interactions with employees has been pleasant.  Not the same story for everyone, but otherwise they've lived up to their end of the bargain, albeit delivering late.

 People didn't jump on an "experimental hardware" ship.  BFL showed they had products for sale and even shipped those products to "reviewers" (codinginmysleep.com  for example) so we could "see their awesomeness".   It's hard to understand were you are coming from to think that the constant complaining does nothing as it actually serves as a tool to preserve the reputation of BFL in the public memory.  It serves to keep other unsuspecting individuals from hopping onto the "experimental hardware" band wagon that purports to have actual products for sale (viable or not)! 
 We aren't in need of a cause - as you can plainly see, we have one!  Just because it doesn't meet up with your lofty expectations doesn't mean we should be quiet about it.  BFL may have shipped lots of miners but the fact that they took more orders than they could comfortably fill has to resonate in this forum until such time as they re-think their business model.
 
 What part of the bargain they lived up to are you referring to?  The 1 watt per gigahash bargain?  The USB powered bargain?  The backlog filled by the end of August bargain? The end of September bargain? (oh wait there was no end of September bargain!) The ramped up production to 400 units per day?   You are just tahnking your lucky stars you got yours when you did and that's all it took to keep your mouth shut.  Try to imagine you are still waiting and your 2500 bucks has evaporated.  Anyway, why would you enter a thread with this title and not expect to see this type of talk?  Telling people to find a "higher" cause is utterly ridiculous here. 

 And for disclosure, I HAVE ordered a BFL device and I AM STILL waiting for it after more than 6 months and I AM pissed off and I WONT ever do business with BFL in the future.  I have also donated to the Red Cross, Movember Canada, Run for the Cure, the Heart and Stroke foundation, The Salvation Army, The Canadian Legion, Wikileaks and others... but I realize that is meaningless in this forum and I apologize for the spam.

Take care

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October 27, 2013, 05:19:32 PM
 #25

The main factor fuelling all these threads is the recurring theme of Josh being a deceptive, unhelpful, nasty individual. The whole story would have been totally different with a public figure who knew how to interact with people and isn't cynical in his use of language, manipulation of dates and shows a willingness to be frank with information regarding delays and the size of the company's order book.
The lesson learnt for me is only give money to people who are honest.

 Very well said.

 The sad part is that Josh displays all those negative traits as a gleaming, proud badge-of-honor, and people keep throwing money at them and defending them like some ignorant, weak-minded Stockholm-Syndrome sufferers.

 Josh displays all the classic symptoms psychopathy. Don't take my word for it... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopathy

 Absolutely unforgivable and despicable behavior; a damning indictment of the entire company that they allow and support their public figurehead to act in such an unprofessional and off-putting manner.

 Quite possibly one of the most conniving people I have ever had the displeasure of doing business with.

 Caveat emptor.
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October 27, 2013, 05:36:12 PM
 #26

The main factor fuelling all these threads is the recurring theme of Josh being a deceptive, unhelpful, nasty individual. The whole story would have been totally different with a public figure who knew how to interact with people and isn't cynical in his use of language, manipulation of dates and shows a willingness to be frank with information regarding delays and the size of the company's order book.
The lesson learnt for me is only give money to people who are honest.

 Very well said.

 The sad part is that Josh displays all those negative traits as a gleaming, proud badge-of-honor, and people keep throwing money at them and defending them like some ignorant, weak-minded Stockholm-Syndrome sufferers.

 Josh displays all the classic symptoms psychopathy. Don't take my word for it... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopathy

 Absolutely unforgivable and despicable behavior; a damning indictment of the entire company that they allow and support their public figurehead to act in such an unprofessional and off-putting manner.

 Quite possibly one of the most conniving people I have ever had the displeasure of doing business with.

 Caveat emptor.

In that case, can we just start an "I hate Josh" thread so that the forum isn't littered with thread after thread of BFL rage? All anyone is doing is beating a dead horse, makes the community look like a bunch of whiners.  Avalon folks have a lot more to be pissed at.  Believe you-me, I'm not defending them as I would much rather have gotten my hardware when it would still earn back what I paid, but at what point is enough... enough? 

I say this with all sincerity.  I work with a group and when trying to bring another friend into the fold his main dispute with BTC is that, with the largest portion of the community you can find in one place being the mining/hardware group, it looked like the entire community is full of petulant babies who can't accept losses and move on to other more meaningful things.  If people spent half the time trying to do something good for BTC that they spent kicking the same dead horse we might actually see more mainstream Bitcoin adoption, but instead everyone has to play the game of "What will the anti-BFL post be this week?". 

Or better yet, if you hate BFL that much, let the public record stand.  Stop giving them publicity.  Talk about other hardware vendors and how they screwed up.  It seems like people feel validated to have an Inaba post show up just so they can say "SEE?!  SEE?!  THERE IS THE DEVIL HIMSELF!". 
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October 27, 2013, 05:42:50 PM
 #27

Or better yet, if you hate BFL that much, let the public record stand.  Stop giving them publicity.  Talk about other hardware vendors and how they screwed up.  It seems like people feel validated to have an Inaba post show up just so they can say "SEE?!  SEE?!  THERE IS THE DEVIL HIMSELF!". 

Or even better, petition Theymos to suspend his account. That would put an end to him publicising his ego and retelling history on these pages, and the recurring outcry from the whiners/customers who can't stand the bullshit. We all know why that won't happen. This forum is funded by mining and the silly money we've all spent on it. It's all very ironic.

Satoshi messed up making the mining reward so high. Life was better and more democratic when everyone was CPU mining.

"How are you justifying these as fair use?  They are clearly and unequivocally a copyright violation."
"I really want to know how you justify that under the fair use doctrine?  It does not conform to a single point of fair use."
Josh whining about people reusing his studio portrait shot on this forum. Can you copyright a copyright complaint? All Paypal refunds are final.
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October 27, 2013, 05:55:40 PM
 #28

I’m inclined to believe Josh’s categorical denial that BFL mines.  If this was something they always did with all customer equipment I would guess other hard evidence would have surfaced by now.  Not sure how long they have been attaching these stickers on the bottom of the PCBs but its pretty easy for people to check their units and see how these dates compare to their ship date.

Why would you trust the dates they put on labels any more than you trust anything else BFL says?  They could write anything they wanted on that.  Maybe it was hashing for three months instead of three weeks.  You don't know.  You do know, though, that "new" electronics don't arrive with dust inside them.
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October 27, 2013, 06:00:10 PM
 #29

If part of his job is customer service, managing customer relationships, and speaking on behalf of BFL, he's not very good at it. That's the reason everyone "dislikes" him.

How hard is it to ignore the trolls, mudslinging and namecalling? Simply present the information in a professional manner and be done with it. Post #8 was a perfect example. Just do that, all the time.

It's not rocket science, Josh.
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October 27, 2013, 08:33:51 PM
 #30

The main factor fuelling all these threads is the recurring theme of Josh being a deceptive, unhelpful, nasty individual. The whole story would have been totally different with a public figure who knew how to interact with people and isn't cynical in his use of language, manipulation of dates and shows a willingness to be frank with information regarding delays and the size of the company's order book.
The lesson learnt for me is only give money to people who are honest.

 Very well said.

 The sad part is that Josh displays all those negative traits as a gleaming, proud badge-of-honor, and people keep throwing money at them and defending them like some ignorant, weak-minded Stockholm-Syndrome sufferers.

 Josh displays all the classic symptoms psychopathy. Don't take my word for it... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopathy

 Absolutely unforgivable and despicable behavior; a damning indictment of the entire company that they allow and support their public figurehead to act in such an unprofessional and off-putting manner.

 Quite possibly one of the most conniving people I have ever had the displeasure of doing business with.

 Caveat emptor.

In that case, can we just start an "I hate Josh" thread so that the forum isn't littered with thread after thread of BFL rage? All anyone is doing is beating a dead horse, makes the community look like a bunch of whiners.  Avalon folks have a lot more to be pissed at.  Believe you-me, I'm not defending them as I would much rather have gotten my hardware when it would still earn back what I paid, but at what point is enough... enough?  

I say this with all sincerity.  I work with a group and when trying to bring another friend into the fold his main dispute with BTC is that, with the largest portion of the community you can find in one place being the mining/hardware group, it looked like the entire community is full of petulant babies who can't accept losses and move on to other more meaningful things.  If people spent half the time trying to do something good for BTC that they spent kicking the same dead horse we might actually see more mainstream Bitcoin adoption, but instead everyone has to play the game of "What will the anti-BFL post be this week?".  

Or better yet, if you hate BFL that much, let the public record stand.  Stop giving them publicity.  Talk about other hardware vendors and how they screwed up.  It seems like people feel validated to have an Inaba post show up just so they can say "SEE?!  SEE?!  THERE IS THE DEVIL HIMSELF!".  

Well, at least someone on this forum can use their brains.  Thanks Reactor, well said.

Anyway, as far as Xian calling me a psychopath, lets take a look at Xian nee Christian Antkow, shall we?

This is pure Christopher Antkow at his finest. All of these quotes are unedited quotes directly from the horses mouth, so to speak.

Quote
This is a blatant and outright conflict of interest.

In a professional organization, Josh would be instantly fired for doing something like this.

Given that BFL is run by a convicted felon, should it really surprise anyone that one of his underlings is operating with questionable ethics as well ?
--
Bullshit Fabrication continues.

"The ASIC team has promised me pictures of the wafer tomorrow, Tuesday the 26th. As soon as I get those, I will be posting them."

26th has come and gone with no update.
--
Respectfully, how about you get off these forums, stop with your piss war, and update the official BFL forums thread on what is going on with our orders.

You are making your company look like a bunch of insecure, bumbling and posturing buffoons.

Christ dude, be thankful you are working for a private company, because your ass would be fucking fired for how you are conducting yourself as a representative of your
company were it a public entity.
--
Josh.

For fucks sake.

Can't you act professionally ?

You are in ABSOLUTELY NO POSITION TO BE FLINGING SHIT HERE IN THESE FORUMS.

NONE. ZERO. ZILCH.

YOUR CREDIBILITY IS NON-EXISTANT.

Thank FSM your boss allows you such a long leash. You'd be fucking destroyed in any real professional corporate environment held to any base standards of accountability.

Shame on you.
--
Holy shit dude. Be careful throwing stones from your glass house !!!

The only thing more pathetic than PL around here is your management of this whole BFL ASIC fiasco.
--
Josh claiming on BFL chat last night that they shipped just seemed really disingenuous and slimy. Par for the course as far as Josh goes I suppose.
--
If I can get a guarantee that Theymos and the bitcointalk admins will allow negative ads towards BFL, I'll donate a full BTC in protest.
--
Nevermind about anti-BFL PSA's.

I have half a mind to investigate the pros/cons of a class action lawsuit against them at the moment.

Starting to get really pissed off. Have never seen a company I have given so much money to, act so unprofessionally before.
--
He won't tell us anything. He's too busy silencing dissent on the BFL shout-box and refusing to answer difficult, pointed questions.

Dude just plain does not give a fuck about this place, his behavior, his customers, or his companies public image.
--
Josh.

I say this with sincerity.

Get help.

You can rest assured that once BFL ships my back-orders, you will never see another penny from me ever again.
--
Not sure about any BFL Wafers breaking, but judging from Josh's behavior on the forums lately, I think his mind may be breaking.

Can anyone over there at BFL try to slip some lithium or anti-psychotics in his drinks, please ?

It is just absolutely mind-boggling how his leash-holders allow him to continue like he does in public. Has developed this split-personality complex that

Inaba/BFL_Josh-Zerlan are two different personalities !

I mean name calling ? Is he still in grade school ? This is the public face of Butterfly Labs ?

For shame !

EDIT: Speak of waffles, perhaps we should send Josh a Blue Waffle ?
--
Kinda like your October or November 2012 shipping dates were wrong and "misrepresentation" ?
--
So, Mr. Zerlan. Care to explain further about "so many lies and deceit perpetrated by people with agendas, unbalanced sense of reality or just plain crazy"

It would seem clear to me that YOUR agenda is to shirk all responsibility or honor for your prior commitments.
--
You have absolutely no license or credibility to speak about having a firm grasp of reality.
--
Way to evade again, Josh. So when are you going to do the honorable thing and honor the bet ?

Clearly, you have not met your power targets despite all your previous hubris.
--
IANAL. However. There are mountains of documentation across various forums, that up until very very recently, they never had a working physical prototype, and originally
made the claim to be shipping in October of 2012.

If that is not deceptive / fraudulent, I don't know what is.

I would imagine they are completely in a position to have a Judge approve a class-action suit brought against them, and the plaintiffs stand a very good chance at compensation
due to the well documented development circus and constant delays.

And lets not forget that the Minirig SC is no longer available, and they've reorganized their entire product lineup from what they originally offered for sale because their
processes up until now have been such a farce.

EDIT: And I just wanted to add that given Josh's public taunting and ill-behavior, the Judge would have a cause to award additional punitive damages against Butterfly Labs.
--
I would tread very carefully bro. Lets not bring the FCC into this.

Also, are you not both COO and CTO ? Sincere apologies if I have not gotten those facts straight.

I may be a "troll asshole customer" in your eyes, but I'll happily eat crow if I'm in error.
--
So what you are inferring is if one were to get on Josh's bad-side, their order might be delayed or lost as well ?

Interesting how both BitSyncom and Josh are so seemingly alike.

Josh threatened to adjust my orders in the queue just yesterday before he silenced me on the Butterfly Labs shoutbox.
--
Not only is Josh Zerlan / Inaba their CTO, he's also their COO !!!

Dude is going to have a really tough time finding another job after Butterfly Labs, due the mountains of impropriety and unprofessionalism that has been so thoroughly
documented here.

Could not happen to a nicer guy.

... and dude has the fucking gall to call people who ask harsh/pointed questions "trolls"

The man has a complete lack of meta-cognition or modicum of self-awareness.
--
I confirmed my orders as well. It's unfortunate to see people supporting and applauding Josh's unprofessionalism on these forums.
--
Josh Zerlan is not aware of things enough to know this. In fact, he fancies himself the fattest sow in the mudhole.
--
This sums up Josh Zerlan's delusional professional outlook quite succinctly. "Conditional Customer Service".

And you know what the saddest part about all of that, is that in Josh's mind, he probably feels 100% unwaveringly justified in having that attitude due to a complete and
utter lack of self-awareness and a firm mental rooting in his own virtual reality.

I mean, if he's going to have his megalomaniacal temper tantrums and silence customers on their forums / shoutbox with thousands of dollars in preorders, then there is just
no dealing with the man. Professionally or otherwise.

Dude has "loose-cannon" written all over him. It's people like him that sink companies unless management gets things in check pronto.

... and remember folks. Josh himself recently admitted that these forums are not relevant to their business at all, which begs the question "Why does he continue posting
here if he does not consider this place important ? Why does he continue advertising here ?"

Calling Josh Zerlan a "scummy fuck" is a pretty accurate salvo.
--
... but, you post lies, bullshit, and are arguably one of the biggest dicks on these forums, so, it's quite the viscous circle you have created, huh ?

Just thought I would take the liberty of showing you a mirror.
--
... and you are the competent and experienced CTO and COO of a company that acts in a professional manner or knows what they are doing ? Sure, we believe you... no really.
--
Quote from: Inaba on May 05, 2013, 05:48:23 PM
Let me know your order numbers, I will be happy to get your refund taken care of right away.

Josh, throw me a bone here... Do you at least recognize how completely unprofessional and anti-customer this sort of attitude is ?

Do you even care ?

I mean, I'm not telling you how to run your business, but you are playing an extremely dangerous game with this sort of brazen attitude.

You are essentially telling everyone here on these forums "We have you, our customers, bent over, and you just need to keep taking it with this Kong Dong of Penetration +2. Fuck you. I don't care about your orders or your business. We'll happily refund your money because we have more masochistic suckers lined up to fill the vacuum of your refund."

And you are the COO of Butterfly Labs ?

Am I far off ?
--
I'd rather he stop making excuses, show some humility, and stop taunting us with such pompous braggadocio whilst having thousands of our dollars in his coffers worth of preorders.
--
I'll just leave this here...

---
Fuck you asshole. Where the fuck do you think your first customers came from ?

Eat a bag of dicks.
--
Xian (Edit · Delete) 05-01-2013 03:56 PM
So Josh, when are you going to pay the 1000 BTC bet for not meeting 1W/Ghash ? Or are you waiting until you guys get down to 1W/Ghash until you tell everyone to go fuck themselves and say "I TOLD YOU SO!!!" ?

BFL_Josh - 05-01-2013 03:58 PM
Xian: Your trolling pisses me off, but to answer your question, as soon as we get time to take care of it, we will. It's not like we aren't already overworked and it's not exactly a high priority at the moment... however, if you have an order, let me know what it is and I will be sure to put yours on hold when we get to it and work dilligently on the donation thing before we get back to yours.

Xian (Edit · Delete) 05-01-2013 03:58 PM
BFL_Josh: Hey, thanks for threatening your customers ! I appreciate it !

Xian silenced successfully.
BFL_Josh - 05-01-2013 03:59 PM
No problem, thanks for being an annoying troll.

BFL_Josh - Shout 05-01-2013 03:59 PM
Xian silenced successfully.
--
Is it just me, or is anyone else laughing that Josh Zerlan refers to himself as "The Josh" ?

He's gone straight from Douche to Ultra-Mega-Douche, bypassing Douche-Bag, Super-Douche, and Giant-Douche altogether !
--
Two days and no responses from any staff ?

And Josh wonders why he gets trolled so viciously ?
--
Quote from: erk on May 12, 2013, 10:54:56 AM
Don't you think Wired magazine or the author of cgminer are credible?

It would be more credible if cklovias got the Jally; Kano just comes across as a bragging douche-nozzle and, tangentially, probably does more harm to BFL's image than good out of the Jally deal.

Giving one to Wired / Media was a transparent attempt at trying to regain a semblance of legitimacy in the public eye; Josh Zerlan has admitted these forums and patrons are not important to their business so it's pretty evident they are in full-on damage control/survival mode now.
--
I need to respectfully disagree. I would take it a step further and argue there are not enough variations of photos of Josh with a clown-nose.

The man did it entirely to himself.
--
I'm surprised Josh has not nuked that entire thread from orbit in a fit of rage.

I'm pretty much willing to bet that I'll received my 20 Erupter USB sticks before my day one BFL Single SC 60 GH/s unit pre-order ships.

Pathetic.
--
Quote from: hardpick on May 14, 2013, 01:00:24 AM
Bashing Josh is not going to get us anywhere and IMO makes thing worst –he has to spend time defending himself instead of focusing on geting products out the door.

Perhaps Josh should have thought of the consequences of his chest-puffing, posturing, hubris, ignorance, myopia, inexperience, and a trail of broken promises spanning the globe over the last 8 months.

Schadenfreude, in this case, is completely justified.

Especially if you are a multiple pre-order customer waiting to take delivery of a product we have ordered almost a year ago.
--
And Josh Zerlan is a paragon of accuracy and truth ?

Respectfully, there is probably more accuracy in my conjectures that Josh's prior attempts at stating fact.
--
TL;DR: Josh "Inaba" Zerlan, COO of Butterfly Labs, taunts Bitcointalk forum members. I call him out on his behavior in an incendiary fashion. He tells Jody to cancel my orders (#s 2030, 2158 & 100033486). Check posting history. Is this the kind of company you want to be doing business with in America ?

---

I've never felt this abused as a customer before. Filed a complaint with the Missouri AG Customer Complaints dept and the FTC Complaints Dept. Provided a Paypal address to office@bfl to get refunded for $4,698 (edit: refund processed)

Sorry for getting all fired up like that, forum-denizens. I hit a frustration limit I've never experienced before when purchasing products, and way overreacted.

Lessons learned, if I'm going to be critical of a company I plan to do business with, I should probably choose a moniker that they can't trace back to their customer database.

If you are a former, or current customer of Butterfly Labs, and are disgruntled and fed up with how they have conducted themselves over the last year, I would urge you to contact the following agencies and filing formal complaints.

The more light we shed on Butterfly Labs' business practices, the more chance we have to effect positive change and hold them to anything resembling responsible accountability to their customers.

https://www.consumer.ago.mo.gov/ - Missouri Attorney General Customer Complaints Deptartment
https://econsumer.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/ - Federal Trade Commission Customer Complaint form


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=110805.0 - "Butterfly Labs CEO 25 Million USD Mail Fraud — A Concise Summary of Evidence" is a good thread highlighting historical issues with Butterfly Labs' officers that should document concerns and facts.

I would urge you to not openly complain on these forums if there is any way Butterfly Labs can trace it back to your orders with them. They have demonstrated a will to punitively cancel and refund orders.

Finally, I would be lying if I didn't have a slight concern of someone affiliated with BFL showing up on my doorstep and confronting me for creating this thread, seeing as how they know where I live, given their checkered history. But lets just hope that's my paranoia kicking in.

---

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=181098.msg1897893#msg1897893

Inaba @ April 20, 2013, 05:06:30 PM: "BFL has given up on Bitcointalk, so don't expect any official communication from BFL here."

vs

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=206304.msg2228269#msg2228269

Inaba @ May.21.2013 @ 05:49:33 PM : "4 @ 5.75"

Spending ~$2,881.90 to advertise on a forum that they have "given up on" is the textbook definition of cognitive dissonance.

---

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=119338.0

An unpaid bet of 1,000 BTC still remains over BFL missing their power consumption by at least a factor of 5, with no movement being made to honor the charity donation. The unpaid bet has resulted in calls for Inaba to be branded with a Scammer tag.

---

Similar experience - "I was just banned from BFL forums" - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=214250.0
--

Is Sonny Chris Vleisides not a felon ? Again, if I am in error with those facts, I'll be the first to stick my foot in my mouth and apologize. Am I an asshole for raising that point ? Probably. Slow-burn frustration has a way of making one exceptionally bitter on a long enough timeline when money has been put up in good-faith.

Please point out the post where I state they still need to prove they are not a scam. That does not sound like something I would say, considering I don't believe they are a scam and already own one of their products. Shady ? Sure. A scam ? Verifiably not, so far.
--
Correction: Using bureaucratic agencies to shed light on a company that openly has contempt for it's customers, fires those customers after they've endured one delay after another, one broken promise after another, more taunting and unprofessionalism from an officer of the company - after calling them out on it in a public forum. This is not normal behavior to see from a product developer. I don't know what country you live in, or what other companies you have dealt with that treated you similarly, and think it's OK.

In retrospect, I should indeed have taken a refund sooner rather than having one forced on me. Captain Hindsight and so on and so forth.

Who's the psychotic one, again?

If you're searching these lines for a point, you've probably missed it.  There was never anything there in the first place.
Unacceptable
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October 27, 2013, 08:53:28 PM
 #31

WTF Inaba Huh  Why are you giving out personal information Huh  IE:useing a persons REAL name Huh

Very mature dude  Roll Eyes

"If you run into an asshole in the morning, you ran into an asshole. If you run into assholes all day long, you are the asshole."  -Raylan Givens
Got GOXXED ?? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KiqRpPiJAU&feature=youtu.be
"An ASIC being late is perfectly normal, predictable, and legal..."Hashfast & BFL slogan Smiley
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October 27, 2013, 09:06:19 PM
 #32

Classy.

Guess they don't even adhere to their own privacy policies now.
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October 27, 2013, 09:08:55 PM
 #33

WTF Inaba Huh  Why are you giving out personal information Huh  IE:useing a persons REAL name Huh

Very mature dude  Roll Eyes

It's as a warning to any other victims of the BFL scam, that if they dare to criticize the shit-flinging Inaba monkey, they too will be outed.
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October 27, 2013, 09:48:32 PM
 #34

WTF Inaba Huh  Why are you giving out personal information Huh  IE:useing a persons REAL name Huh

Very mature dude  Roll Eyes

I don't think for the past month they would mess with a 60, I would think it would be mini-rigs they would be using if doing that.  But you never know.

It is sad to see someone connected with a company using someones info, i sure hope it was not a BFL customer. 
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October 27, 2013, 10:03:58 PM
 #35

Wow, great one-sided attack. Classic, pick a fight with one person and focus on them. Typical bully boy tactics.

Read your own posts for insights into madness.

I need to vent for a minute, because I'm so fucking sick and tired of this when I have to modify someone elses code, or even look upon it.

If you code in 1TBS style, I fucking hate you.  I hate you with every fiber of my being.  I want to know what is wrong in your brain that makes you think that 1TBS is the "proper" or more "acceptable" way to style your code.  Why are you so fucking dense and incapable of simple human comprehension of visual coding styles that you want to subject others to your shitbag, fucked up, illegible coding style?  I fucking hate you.  I FUCKING HATE YOU AND I AM NOT THE ONLY ONE.  If I could reach through the internet and punch you in the face, I would.  I would spend my days punching every single asshole who writes code in 1TBS style in the face... that would be my purpose in life and I would attack that purpose like a manic-depressive fat girl on a giant ham after her internet boyfriend left her for another lithe woodelf in a different guild.  

I would sit, at my chair and spend 23 hours a day, taking only a single hour to sleep and eat and shit throughout a 24 hour day, punching you in the face.  On Christmas and other holidays, I would treat myself and fly around around the world, with a satellite phone hooked up to my laptop on a chartered jet, punching each of you in the face over the internet, just so I could spend more than 24 hours in a single day punching you.  I would have this jet fly with the setting sun, so I am always punching you just when you're sitting down to dinner, I would do this for nearly 48 hours straight, hopped up on Mt. Dew and Red Bull. This is how much I hate you.

On New Years, I would fly to Australia and spend the entire day punching the most egregious offenders of this fucked up indent style, then I would fly to back to the US and DO IT ALL OVER AGAIN ON THE SAME DAY.

Tell me, you 1TBS motherfuckers, tell me why you think your indent style is something even marginally approaching reasonable?  It's fucked up.  It is idiotic.  IT IS COMPLETELY UNREADABLE. Why do you do it?  Do you hate other people?  Are you so antisocial that you can't get it through your head that it makes your code look like complete shit?  Do you not understand that it makes debugging or following your code all but impossible?  Do you think you are in 1970 where every single byte counts?  What is it?  What makes you think it's ok to indent like this?

Code:
       // most of the protocols are followed by ://, but mailto: and sometimes news: not, check for it
        if ( in_array( $bits['scheme'] . '://', $wgUrlProtocols ) ) {
                $bits['delimiter'] = '://';
        } elseif ( in_array( $bits['scheme'] . ':', $wgUrlProtocols ) ) {
                $bits['delimiter'] = ':';
                // parse_url detects for news: and mailto: the host part of an url as path
                // We have to correct this wrong detection
                if ( isset( $bits['path'] ) ) {
                        $bits['host'] = $bits['path'];
                        $bits['path'] = '';
                }
        } else {
                return false;
        }

That is fucking goddamned unreadable.

Pick a readable indent style. Allman makes the most sense:

Code:

        // most of the protocols are followed by ://, but mailto: and sometimes news: not, check for it
        if ( in_array( $bits['scheme'] . '://', $wgUrlProtocols ) )
        {
$bits['delimiter'] = '://';
        }
        elseif ( in_array( $bits['scheme'] . ':', $wgUrlProtocols ) )
        {
                $bits['delimiter'] = ':';
                // parse_url detects for news: and mailto: the host part of an url as path
                // We have to correct this wrong detection
                if ( isset( $bits['path'] ) )
                {
$bits['host'] = $bits['path'];
$bits['path'] = '';
                }
        }
        else
        {
return false;
        }

Look.  Gaze upon it. It's easy to follow.  It's easy on the eyes.  You can quickly see what bits of code belong to what controlling statment.  You can see what opening brace matches with what closing brace.  You can see what else matches with what if.  You can see how many else statements there are.  Seriously.  Look at it.  Now look back at your shitbag 1TBS code and tell me the same thing is true.  You can't, because if you do you are a fucking liar.  You're already an idiot for using 1TBS, don't make yourself a liar, too.

Now, go cry me a fucking river about how Allman takes up more room or some other line of complete bullshit.  It's not about visually compacting your code, it's about MAKING IT FUCKING READABLE.  Your shitbag style may be more compact, but guess what?  WHO THE FUCK CARES?  Nobody.  Not a single fucking person on the planet will ever care how compact your code is.  They care about whether it works.  Then there's the poor fucking bastards that have to maintain it after you've gone off to spread your disease to other projects, and let me tell you, they do NOT FUCKING GIVE A SHIT how compact your code is.  They care about it being readable and sensible.  Your shitty style is neither.  STOP.  JUST STOP.  Take your 1TBS style and stick it so far up your ass that it pops out the top of your head, hopefully taking the part of your brain with it that makes you think 1TBS is an acceptable indentation style.

Fuck you.



"How are you justifying these as fair use?  They are clearly and unequivocally a copyright violation."
"I really want to know how you justify that under the fair use doctrine?  It does not conform to a single point of fair use."
Josh whining about people reusing his studio portrait shot on this forum. Can you copyright a copyright complaint? All Paypal refunds are final.
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October 27, 2013, 10:21:59 PM
 #36

WTF Inaba Huh  Why are you giving out personal information Huh  IE:useing a persons REAL name Huh

Very mature dude  Roll Eyes

His name is already public knowledge, I didn't reveal anything he hasn't already revealed himself.  Try to keep up, man.  I know it's hard, what with the reading and all, but try to read above a 2nd grade level.


If you're searching these lines for a point, you've probably missed it.  There was never anything there in the first place.
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October 27, 2013, 10:24:12 PM
 #37

WTF Inaba Huh  Why are you giving out personal information Huh  IE:useing a persons REAL name Huh
Very mature dude  Roll Eyes
His name is already public knowledge, I didn't reveal anything he hasn't already revealed himself.  Try to keep up, man.  I know it's hard, what with the reading and all, but try to read above a 2nd grade level.

 Please provide proof of how the information you are posting is publicly available.

 I suspect you are mistaken. Again.
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October 27, 2013, 10:28:13 PM
 #38

WTF Inaba Huh  Why are you giving out personal information Huh  IE:useing a persons REAL name Huh
Very mature dude  Roll Eyes
His name is already public knowledge, I didn't reveal anything he hasn't already revealed himself.  Try to keep up, man.  I know it's hard, what with the reading and all, but try to read above a 2nd grade level.

 Please provide proof of how your information is publicly available.

Sure thing, hotpants:

http://www.caligirl.net/album/t-z/xian.html
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?p=1026311291
http://www.bluesnews.com/cgi-bin/finger.pl?id=10&time=20001216200132
http://www.tweaktown.com/news/2590/doom_iii_alpha_leak_id_s_statement/index.html
http://planetquake.gamespy.com/View.php?view=qscopes.detail&id=215
http://www.spiritofradio.ca/bbs/index.asp?URL=%2Fviewtopic.php&Redirect=f%3D9%26t%3D234
http://www.discogs.com/artist/Christian+Antkow?anv=Christian+'Xian'+Antkow

Should I go on?  There's a veritable cornucopia of links associated with Xian and Christian Antkow.

As usual, you are the one that is mistaken.  That seems to be a habit with you.  BTW, how's that lawsuit coming?  I haven't heard much after your sternly worded letter of ridiculous demands.  Or is this another case of Brian "Fuck you machine" Micon, talking a bunch of crap but being completely unable to actually follow through?

If you're searching these lines for a point, you've probably missed it.  There was never anything there in the first place.
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October 27, 2013, 10:36:02 PM
 #39

Please provide proof of how your information is publicly available.
Sure thing, hotpants:

 I'm really not sure it's possible for you to stoop any lower, or become even more reviled in this community by posting extrapolations like that. I would expect no less from you. Bravo.
 
 I suppose it's really easy to make those connections in reverse when you have my billing info from being a prior customer, huh ?

 Shameful behavior from a company figurehead, to be sure.

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October 27, 2013, 10:44:32 PM
 #40

Yeah, if I posted the kind of crap you do, I'd want to remain anonymous, too!

Sorry man, if you want to act like a monkey flinging poo online, you aren't going to do it anonymously.  Own it, Christian Antkow. Let the world know what a complete raving nutcase you are.

There's no working backwards.  Here is you, associated with your account as you discuss your desire for pedophillia (No, I'm not kidding, Christian Antkow is seriously talking about pedophiles):

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=150803.msg2967154#msg2967154

Here, you post your own name:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=207331.msg2171173#msg2171173

Which you've since deleted, but luckily some happy people quoted you before you went back and edited out your raving nutbaggery:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=110805.msg2181148#msg2181148

9 ) https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=207331.0;all

Orders 2030, 2158, 1000033476 - Paid for via BTC - 4 x Single SC 60GH/s units

---


On May 16, 2013, at 12:46 PM, Butterfly Labs Inc wrote:

Dear Christian,

It has been relayed to me that you are unhappy with our company and I was asked to cancel your orders. If you would send me a PayPal address I will send your money back to you ASAP.

Jody
BF Labs, Inc.

----

My response;

---

I am sorry, but that is erroneous.

I have never asked for, nor do I wish to receive a refund.

I have been patiently waiting for over 11 months now, and still have faith Butterfly Labs will deliver product.

Regards,



So you see, you complete nutcase, you posted your own name on Bitcointalk.  I revealed nothing that you haven't revealed publicly before.  Don't blame me for your inability to comprehend how the internet works.

If you're searching these lines for a point, you've probably missed it.  There was never anything there in the first place.
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