Government Furious

[BartS]

I honestly just would like to see bitcoin treated the same way as foreign currencies are, or even gold/silver.

Simply doing bitcoin transactions should not incur any taxes. Makes no sense to do so, it's like saying you're going to be taxed every single time you give someone else money regardless of the reason.

What I see with a some countries though is that VAT is added to bitcoin purchases, and CGT is applied when you cash out your bitcoin. Make up your mind, governments. You can't say that bitcoin is both a consumer good and an investment asset. This kind of double taxing shouldn't be happening. Also, apparently in Australia they are also planning on adding a tax for crypto to crypto trades. I get that there may be a tax for crypto to fiat trades, but crypto to crypto, you serious? That's like saying swapping collectibles with someone will incur a tax. Makes no sense to me.

It makes no sense when you are just thinking of the technical aspects of how they are treating bitcoin however when you begin to think about the ideological aspects it is very easy to see why they're doing this they are trying to destroy bitcoin, and they know they are unable to do it with a superior technology, they know that bitcoin will resist everything they throw at it so what they're trying to do is to make bitcoin very difficult to use that way the average person is going to think why bother? And it is going to avoid bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies in order to avoid those taxes.

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[stompix]

if the income from bitcoin or altcoin is taxed, will the government legalize bitcoin? if true, I agree. currently with the existence of blockchain technology should the government can take advantage of it for the future of the economy of the country so do not feel harmed by the existence of bitcoin. so far the unemployment rate has fallen because many people are using bitcoin to make money. because so far the government can not provide jobs to reduce unemployment rates.

Common be serious.
First , unemployment is calculated on how many people are actually searching for a job not all those that are not employed. I doubt that somebody who make money on the internet trading coins would forfeit the unemployment benefits.

Unemployment rates are at around 6% or close to some 200 millions people.
For example if this entire forum would be unemployed and all we would make a living out of coins and all the accounts would represent a different individual (no multi accounts) the dent in the unemployment number would be from 6% to 5.97%.
Common....

LE
Just checked, the unemployment rate has gone up worldwide in 2017 from 2016...

[Hell-raiser]

if the income from bitcoin or altcoin is taxed, will the government legalize bitcoin? if true, I agree. currently with the existence of blockchain technology should the government can take advantage of it for the future of the economy of the country so do not feel harmed by the existence of bitcoin. so far the unemployment rate has fallen because many people are using bitcoin to make money. because so far the government can not provide jobs to reduce unemployment rates.

Common be serious.
First , unemployment is calculated on how many people are actually searching for a job not all those that are not employed. I doubt that somebody who make money on the internet trading coins would forfeit the unemployment benefits.

I agree with you that Bitcoin doesn't make a dent in the unemployment rates because the number of people successfully trading crypto and making a living off it is well within the margin of statistical error. But as you yourself say, the unemployment rate is determined on how many people are actually searching for a job (the point which I totally agree with), so people who are living off crypto shouldn't be actively searching for a job. But that means that they are excluded from these statistics, therefore they necessarily contribute to lower unemployment. Besides, in many jurisdictions you won't receive unemployment benefits indefinitely even if they are actively searching for a job simply because you typically do find a job after some time if you are looking for it in earnest.

[ntodntodan69]

The capitalization of bitcoin transactions reaches billions of dollars but governments of any country can not get revenues or income from these transactions and this makes governments in many countries complain of the existence of bitcoin because it is considered a threat to the economy of a country. Should tax apply to users who do bitcoin transactions? When are users comfortable with this situation? what is the right regulation to address these issues to help each country improve its economy?

the government of every country has the authority over the thing that is feared to undermine the country's economy, including bitcoin.
to make a good regulation I think the government of a country should impose a tax on the income of its citizens derived from bitcoin
this should be offset by legal protection for bitcoin transactions

[bitlyra]

I do not think that government can ban bitcoin. Bitcoin is a decentralized crypto currency and there is no such government can take hold on it or control it. More governments has regulating bitcoin and that helps their economy as well. Accepting bitcoin is like accepting the opportunity to have a great profit. Great profit is good economic status.

[danniwide1234]

I don't want to believe government is furious just because they could not collect tax from transactions that involved bitcoin. To me the hostility of most governments to the development of bitcoin in their countries is based on various factors and tax could also be part of it. The way bitcoin and other cryptocurrency is structure right now it will be difficult for any government to be able to collect tax from bitcoin. The fact that it is a decentralized system makes tax almost impossible. However policy and regulations could be introduced that will make bitcoin taxable and also helps to solve many of the concern that has been raised by government as regards to bitcoin and cryptocurrency in general.

[esa2782]

the reason for the government to stand against bitcoin is because its decentralised system which make government and its centralised system an outsider, but i think the government should not put btc in the scheme of good guy and bad guy, because it is happening and people are using it and they feel okay and good with it, so instead of "furious" for no appearance reasons the government should embrace it and make sure its people is not fall into a victim of cryptos system, it's not fair to brandish btc just because unable to take taxes from it, because i think the basic of the state is to regulate for the safety, they should use that when dealing btc and cryptos.

[entrepmind23]

The capitalization of bitcoin transactions reaches billions of dollars but governments of any country can not get revenues or income from these transactions and this makes governments in many countries complain of the existence of bitcoin because it is considered a threat to the economy of a country. Should tax apply to users who do bitcoin transactions? When are users comfortable with this situation? what is the right regulation to address these issues to help each country improve its economy?

Just like what is applicable in buying goods or services, bitcoin can be tax if it is transferred to another person in which case not all transactions should be tax because there are cases when an individual would just transfer it to his another wallet. The only way for the government to track the transfer is when it is done in a centralized platform and the users need to have KYC to do such transaction. They will know who buys and sells so they will know to whom they will collect such taxes otherwise the platform would just automatically charge tax to every transaction and government will collect the accumulated tax to the platform owners so that it would be easier.

[Ctn]

if the income from bitcoin or altcoin is taxed, will the government legalize bitcoin? if true, I agree. currently with the existence of blockchain technology should the government can take advantage of it for the future of the economy of the country so do not feel harmed by the existence of bitcoin. so far the unemployment rate has fallen because many people are using bitcoin to make money. because so far the government can not provide jobs to reduce unemployment rates.

Common be serious.
First , unemployment is calculated on how many people are actually searching for a job not all those that are not employed. I doubt that somebody who make money on the internet trading coins would forfeit the unemployment benefits.

Unemployment rates are at around 6% or close to some 200 millions people.
For example if this entire forum would be unemployed and all we would make a living out of coins and all the accounts would represent a different individual (no multi accounts) the dent in the unemployment number would be from 6% to 5.97%.
Common....

LE
Just checked, the unemployment rate has gone up worldwide in 2017 from 2016...

Indeed. There is no way we can consider this one as employed money. This is not circulating from any organisation to their employee neither they are getting it circulated with legal entities like banks. This got to do nothing with the taxation process as it doesn't even count over the swift codes! 
The money that flows in the legal institute for example comes form the products and services and share of which is circulated around the organisation. At every stage the taxes are paid back to government and thus it allows to do the business. In case of coins, they are already their, there is no input or output fro the same. Its just meaningless and have no proper procedure to follow up. Just pour the money in and get more out of it but without any output ! That is not employment and neither it is taxed one. So obviously government will be obsessed with the whole idea.

[BartS]

I do not think that government can ban bitcoin. Bitcoin is a decentralized crypto currency and there is no such government can take hold on it or control it. More governments has regulating bitcoin and that helps their economy as well. Accepting bitcoin is like accepting the opportunity to have a great profit. Great profit is good economic status.

You do not understand, of course the governments can ban cryptocurrencies that is not the problem for them, the problem is how are they going to force people to comply with the ban? And that is why they are not banning bitcoin yet, they know they can change the laws as they see fit what they do not see themselves doing is winning against bitcoin, after all how can you attack something that is decentralized? In the past there were attempts of new currencies but they were centralized as such as soon as the government wanted they destroyed those coins, now they are facing a new and more difficult enemy in the form of bitcoin.

[BlockEye]

I do not think that government can ban bitcoin. Bitcoin is a decentralized crypto currency and there is no such government can take hold on it or control it. More governments have regulating bitcoin and that helps their economy as well. Accepting bitcoin is like accepting the opportunity to have a great profit. Great profit is good economic status.

Banning in terms of their usage, we already see how Chinas government bans exchanges and ICO, bitcoin may still be say that still exist in their country but it will be hard for crypto investors to fully used the potential of their crypto as well Bitcoin if there are no exchanges present on them and they can't even allow ICO investors to join on any since there are some permitting that needs to be done in selection of countries that can participate.

[KeijiN]

The government will definately try to regulate somehow bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies, becouse people of power doesnt like, when something is not under their control

[chaoscoinz]

The capitalization of bitcoin transactions reaches billions of dollars but governments of any country can not get revenues or income from these transactions and this makes governments in many countries complain of the existence of bitcoin because it is considered a threat to the economy of a country. Should tax apply to users who do bitcoin transactions? When are users comfortable with this situation? what is the right regulation to address these issues to help each country improve its economy?

I think many smaller countries may wait for the U.S to issue guidance first, then they will adopt similar policies, or build their policies around the guidance. Bigger countries will make their own mandates.
Bitcoin and blockchain interrupt alot of sectors within the financial industry. The technolgy has literally taken the world by storm.

[ju5510993]

Also those countries that prohibit BTC because there is no effective regulation, there is no way to tax!

They may be banning BTC and starting to study the relevant regulatory and tax policies of digital cryptocurrency.

[TheClownSong]

Right now, bitcoin trade volume per days already reach more than 10 billions per day. Many government want to collect tax on crypto transaction and from what i thought, government will treat crypto like commodity

[Getcoinsite]

The capitalization of bitcoin transactions reaches billions of dollars but governments of any country can not get revenues or income from these transactions and this makes governments in many countries complain of the existence of bitcoin because it is considered a threat to the economy of a country.

No, if we divide this capitalization between the countries it will be like a grain of sand. Big private companies are bringing much more revenue than a fully regulated crypto economy would. At least at this stage. Also, governments are getting their share from BTC to fiat transactions. Do you think it's not enough?

Should tax apply to users who do bitcoin transactions? When are users comfortable with this situation? what is the right regulation to address these issues to help each country improve its economy?

No, it shouldn't. Are you supposed to pay taxes when you're exchanging pokemon cards with your friends. Do you have to pay tax when you're trading gold in world of warcraft? Why should you have to pay for changing one cryptocurrency into another, especially when both of them aren't recognized by the government as a currency and a means of payment.

You are right there mate,were just looking as whole thats why the market cap seems so big but if we divided them for how many countries are involving cryptocurrency each government wont look at that as a huge amount for getting taxation..but even all this arguments still every profiteering needs a taxation and thats why governments are eager about putting policies and laws about our community here because they saw that many of their countrymens earning here without paying a single cent to them

[Lexurdania]

i can understand their government sentiment towards crypto. they take heavy blow before they could do anything. now they recognise the power and potential of crypto, slow but surely they planning something so to make sure they can take their pieces or else they will loose all they autonomy they got all till now.

I am believe that they just want to collecting taxes from cryptocurrency trade. As we know, government do not want to lose their control on monetary system, so better for government to regulate crypto and they can earn taxes

[bangkit tri]

i can understand their government sentiment towards crypto. they take heavy blow before they could do anything. now they recognise the power and potential of crypto, slow but surely they planning something so to make sure they can take their pieces or else they will loose all they autonomy they got all till now.

I am believe that they just want to collecting taxes from cryptocurrency trade. As we know, government do not want to lose their control on monetary system, so better for government to regulate crypto and they can earn taxes

i think bitcoiner also does not mind if collected taxes, because with taxes means government regulates cryptocurrency and there is legal protection from government. and with taxes means we are involved in building country for good future

[BartS]

The government will definately try to regulate somehow bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies, becouse people of power doesnt like, when something is not under their control

It is not that they do not like something that is outside of their control, it is because they fear it, they feel threatened, when they cannot control every single thing around their world, you need to understand that people in power are very insecure people despite the appearances and what they say that is the truth, they have climb up to those positions and the thing that they fear the most is to lose those positions and something like bitcoin and cryptocurrencies have the potential to diminish the power they wield and that is something they are not going to accept without a fight.

[fiulpro]

You know the funny thing is in most countries the taxes are being applied and at the same time the government is all that on Banning Bitcoins this is the funniest thing ever because if you are taking taxes then why the hell you need to ban them.
Also the banks are trying to stop the transactions regarding Bitcoins this is something that I don't think anyone would think is fair.
There is no problem in giving taxes but at the same time they should know that they should play a fair game not a suit of dictatorship.