Getting Married with Bitcoin? tips, ideas, discussion

[Walter Rothbard]

I keep trying to come up with a great joke here about having children and starting altcoins, but it's not coming together.  Anyway - hoping all that works out for you in precisely the quantity desired.

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[crazy_rabbit]

I see a lot of "encrypted money baby!" type responses, but that really ignores the fact of two people who do trust each other but run into hard times.

What about this scenario: I've cleverly hidden most of my bitcoin safely away from governments and divorce lawyers, yet the marriage turns out to be awesome and nothing ever bad happens. Till one day I'm in a horrific car accident that leaves me in a coma and/or paralysed. Now what? The family needs that BTC to live, heck maybe *I* need that BTC to live, but I can no longer speak or move and can't tell anyone where the private keys are. Then what? Bitcoin is the money fortress of the future as long as you assume you will never lose brain function, but of course, people lose brain function all the time. All the encrypted paper backups in the world aren't going to pay for my funeral/transplant/cryofreezechamber if my wife can't decrypt the keys.

I see it like this:

Danger of being divorced and losing half my BTC: Sucks, entirely possible, but it's not the end of the world. I get a small place, roommate, readjust. It's a shit situation, but recoverable.

Danger of being happily married and losing my brain function (temporarily or permanently) and not being able to access the Bitcoin that could save my life/restore brain function: Sucks, entirely possible AND it's the end of the world for me. Horrible, horrible, outcome.

I think everyone who advocates hiding your wealth in bitcoin like that should think twice. When you hide your wealth in offshore bank accounts at least if you're brain dead your bank/banker/lawyer can get the money out and save your family/pay your medical bills. Not so with bitcoin. You hide it and simply riding a bike without a helmet and hitting the curb at the wrong angle could render that bitcoin gone forever.

[gollum]

I don't wanna be pessimistic but from a statistical point of view the chance of divorce is over 50%.
I wouldn't make a bet with no upside and with 50% chance of loss!

If she agree to an prenup you can state that all your assets before marriage stays individual.
And if she don't agrees, consider 50% of the coins as lost.

[crazy_rabbit]

I don't wanna be pessimistic but from a statistical point of view the chance of divorce is over 50%.
I wouldn't make a bet with no upside and with 50% chance of loss!

If she agree to an prenup you can state that all your assets before marriage stays individual.
And if she don't consider 50% of the coins as lost.

Honestly, I'm not worried about the statistics. The way things are going maybe one day (50 years from now?) we will all be billionares and I will be perfectly capable of surviving on half a billion if it comes to that*.

I have no intention of living off my bitcoin, rather I will live as if I don't have bitcoin and keep going in my normal life/career. The bitcoin is for 'one day in the far far future'.

Honestly, call me stupid, but money is not a priority in my quality of life. :-)

Lets assume I am 100% okay with losing 50% of my money to my wife. That aside, how do we JOINTLY manage it while keeping it secure?

(*note: i don't have anywhere NEAR that amount of bitcoin lest anyone get ideas I'm just giving an example.)

[BCEmporium]

I was talking at my language forum when Daniel told me about this topic.
I divorced mid-2012 and I'm paying alimony with BTC, our agreement is of 25 BTC/month, a normal sum back then a very good wage by now.
She did prefer to get BTC instead of Euros and I agreed to pay it.
So I believe this makes me the first Bitcoin divorcée, no? 

[gollum]

I was talking at my language forum when Daniel told me about this topic.
I divorced mid-2012 and I'm paying alimony with BTC, our agreement is of 25 BTC/month, a normal sum back then a very good wage by now.
She did prefer to get BTC instead of Euros and I agreed to pay it.
So I believe this makes me the first Bitcoin divorcée, no? 

It's not wise to make a commitment in an asset where the supply is limited, and demand is growing over time.
The same goes with gold, in Muslim countries the man is expected to pay X gold coins to the wife if he takes a divorce without a good reason.
But that gold (or bitcoin) will be much more valuable after 20-30 years of marriage compared to fiat, so it's better to have such deals nominated in fiat.

[QuantumQrack]

Use Shamir's secret sharing to mitigate against a falling out later.  Cold wallet, private keys, and encode them with Shamir's secret sharing.  Give the different pieces to family members you trust.  You will have to choose how many pieces are required to decrypt the private key(s). (and of course, see that she gets a decode key as well, and perhaps an attorney)

Even though your relationship sounds fantastic, if she were to fall in love with somebody else (I seriously hope not), she may turn on you like an angry nest of army ants.  These days, its better to be safe when dealing with relationships and finances.

http://passguardian.com/

I think Armory has this built in as well, but ive never used it, it may be a command line thing.

[JungleBook]

I see a lot of "encrypted money baby!" type responses, but that really ignores the fact of two people who do trust each other but run into hard times.

What about this scenario: I've cleverly hidden most of my bitcoin safely away from governments and divorce lawyers, yet the marriage turns out to be awesome and nothing ever bad happens. Till one day I'm in a horrific car accident that leaves me in a coma and/or paralysed. Now what? The family needs that BTC to live, heck maybe *I* need that BTC to live, but I can no longer speak or move and can't tell anyone where the private keys are. Then what? Bitcoin is the money fortress of the future as long as you assume you will never lose brain function, but of course, people lose brain function all the time. All the encrypted paper backups in the world aren't going to pay for my funeral/transplant/cryofreezechamber if my wife can't decrypt the keys.

I see it like this:

Danger of being divorced and losing half my BTC: Sucks, entirely possible, but it's not the end of the world. I get a small place, roommate, readjust. It's a shit situation, but recoverable.

Danger of being happily married and losing my brain function (temporarily or permanently) and not being able to access the Bitcoin that could save my life/restore brain function: Sucks, entirely possible AND it's the end of the world for me. Horrible, horrible, outcome.

I think everyone who advocates hiding your wealth in bitcoin like that should think twice. When you hide your wealth in offshore bank accounts at least if you're brain dead your bank/banker/lawyer can get the money out and save your family/pay your medical bills. Not so with bitcoin. You hide it and simply riding a bike without a helmet and hitting the curb at the wrong angle could render that bitcoin gone forever.

Do a Video of what your wishes are in case something happens . Store the video on your computers hard drive or usb drive. Explain to her if something ever happens look at this video and follow the instructions .

[cedivad]

Or sign a transaction that can be spent only in the future.

[philip2000uk]

"with this coin i Bitwed"

[crazy_rabbit]

I was talking at my language forum when Daniel told me about this topic.
I divorced mid-2012 and I'm paying alimony with BTC, our agreement is of 25 BTC/month, a normal sum back then a very good wage by now.
She did prefer to get BTC instead of Euros and I agreed to pay it.
So I believe this makes me the first Bitcoin divorcée, no? 

Oh wow!

[crazy_rabbit]

I was talking at my language forum when Daniel told me about this topic.
I divorced mid-2012 and I'm paying alimony with BTC, our agreement is of 25 BTC/month, a normal sum back then a very good wage by now.
She did prefer to get BTC instead of Euros and I agreed to pay it.
So I believe this makes me the first Bitcoin divorcée, no? 

It's not wise to make a commitment in an asset where the supply is limited, and demand is growing over time.
The same goes with gold, in Muslim countries the man is expected to pay X gold coins to the wife if he takes a divorce without a good reason.
But that gold (or bitcoin) will be much more valuable after 20-30 years of marriage compared to fiat, so it's better to have such deals nominated in fiat.

Of course you could also argue that the longer a person is with someone else, the higher the alimony from a separation should be. Considering one can't get those years back to do something else productive with.

[crazy_rabbit]

Use Shamir's secret sharing to mitigate against a falling out later.  Cold wallet, private keys, and encode them with Shamir's secret sharing.  Give the different pieces to family members you trust.  You will have to choose how many pieces are required to decrypt the private key(s). (and of course, see that she gets a decode key as well, and perhaps an attorney)

Even though your relationship sounds fantastic, if she were to fall in love with somebody else (I seriously hope not), she may turn on you like an angry nest of army ants.  These days, its better to be safe when dealing with relationships and finances.

http://passguardian.com/

I think Armory has this built in as well, but ive never used it, it may be a command line thing.

THANKS! this is great! We need more of this.

[Rygon]

Coming from someone who has been married, divorced, and engaged to be married again, this is an interesting topic. IMO, just treat it like any other financial asset - or debt for that matter. Everything should be considered joint after marriage and claiming something as his/hers just makes things unecessarily difficult.

But that doesn't mean each person needs to have both of their names on each bank account (that could be worked out with a will, death certificate, etc), or the private key(s) to bitcoin addresses. The important part, as the OP is asking about, is how to make sure the spouse can access those accounts in case something happens but without incurring too much risk to the paper wallet. Those are all good suggestions with multi-sig identifiers. One solution is multiple encrypted copies of paper wallets spread among family and close friends, with only the spouse knowing the password. That would decrease the risk of accidentally opening up a paper wallet.

The next question is what to do when there are kids involved, and you want to make sure they can access the funds in case both parents die in a car/plane/speedboat/space shuttle accident. I think it's a little bit too risky, but Hal Finney choose to put his keys in a safe deposit box for his kids: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=155054.0

[AgeraS]

Prenuptial Agreement 

[Cryddit]

Congratulations on your upcoming nuptials! 

It rarely ever happens that two people who have absolutely equal assets marry.

If your bitcoin wealth gives you a material advantage over your beloved then she needs to know that you're serious about making her a full partner in this marriage.  And to that end I advise you to find a completely symmetric disposition for it.

Yours, mine, and ours.  However you manage it do not withhold for yourself more than your share.  This is what you're bringing for your kids who because they don't exist yet can contribute nothing to their own future.

Anyway a lot of the time it is most important to trust and to be seen to trust your partner to make the partnership work. Take a risk on love. Holding back poisons both your and her ability to make a full partnership.

[indianplayers]

  Hoard all the money! after all you said it's your coins. Just let her see the value of the coins once in a while.

[CryptStorm]

Coming from someone who has been married, divorced, and engaged to be married again, this is an interesting topic. IMO, just treat it like any other financial asset - or debt for that matter. Everything should be considered joint after marriage and claiming something as his/hers just makes things unecessarily difficult.

But that doesn't mean each person needs to have both of their names on each bank account (that could be worked out with a will, death certificate, etc), or the private key(s) to bitcoin addresses. The important part, as the OP is asking about, is how to make sure the spouse can access those accounts in case something happens but without incurring too much risk to the paper wallet. Those are all good suggestions with multi-sig identifiers. One solution is multiple encrypted copies of paper wallets spread among family and close friends, with only the spouse knowing the password. That would decrease the risk of accidentally opening up a paper wallet.

The next question is what to do when there are kids involved, and you want to make sure they can access the funds in case both parents die in a car/plane/speedboat/space shuttle accident. I think it's a little bit too risky, but Hal Finney choose to put his keys in a safe deposit box for his kids: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=155054.0

+1 This.

Firstly, congratulations to you! I am also engaged and my fiance is actively involved in learning about and watching the Bitcoin ecosphere. When we marry next year, the money will be combined, simple enough.

If you aren't going 'prenup', then likely it's shared property. Hopefully, you'll want that, anyway, and won't be 'sneaky' about your assets, which doesn't help you do anything but increase your ability for deceit. But, nothing wrong with wanting to consider holding those assets back; it'd be better to be honest about your concerns now, than to just lie to her, or keep it secret, IMO.

Thanks for the interesting conversation. You crazy rabbit.