Bitcoin Forum
November 02, 2024, 12:00:34 AM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 28.0 [Torrent]
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Pages: [1]
  Print  
Author Topic: ASIC manufacturers sales model  (Read 1023 times)
marra (OP)
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 189
Merit: 100


View Profile
November 06, 2013, 06:05:01 PM
 #1

Does anyone have a clue why all of the asic companies are keeping prices as they are now, where's the business case there?

Both KNC 28nm and BitFury 55nm are under negative business case as mining investments at current offers and difficulty if you invest btc. Either this is the end of profit opportunities in mining or the price of btc is ridiculously cheap at the moment, or perhaps we're heading for a diff correction of about 20-40%.


$1 = 1 satoshi  ☰☱☲☳☷☷☳☲☰☰☱☲☳☷☳☲☰☰☱☲☲☳☷☷☳☲☳☱☷☷☳☲☰☰☰☰☲☳☳
☳☲☰☰☱☲☳☷☷☳☲☰☰☱☲☳☲☳☷☷☳☳☳☲☰☰☱☲☲☳☷☷☳☳☲☰☰☱☲☲☳☷☷☳☰☱☲☳
coretechs
Donator
Sr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 362
Merit: 250



View Profile
November 06, 2013, 07:46:08 PM
Last edit: November 07, 2013, 01:02:30 PM by coretechs
 #2

Quote
Either this is the end of profit opportunities in mining...

I think it's been this way for a while, at least for consumers / end users.  Personally, I concluded that as an individual I have no real chance of successfully competing with big money interests that are now in the mining game.  I also think it is very likely that there are many private / secret ASICs and mining clusters being developed behind the scenes, and unfortunately I suspect a subset of ASIC companies are simply announcing delays and mining for themselves with little fear of customer backlash having any impact on profits.

People have been pointing out the fact that ASICs purchased today with BTC will never ROI, but customers just keep buying them.  For someone with a profit motive this is completely irrational, yet it continues.  I'm sure the ASIC companies are happy to sell them hardware as far into the negative ROI window as possible.  As long as the mining hardware can be sold for more than it costs to manufacture, the ASIC companies will generate profits.  They just need to maintain a minimum ratio of difficulty vs. exchange price, which suggests that rising BTC value is necessary for ASIC manufacturers to survive.  Considering that some of the ASIC companies are probably sitting on millions of dollars from private investments and pre-order revenues, they could probably buy up coins on the exchanges an drive the price up themselves if needed... and that is how a proper bubble is created.

https://bitcoindoc.com - The Rise and Rise of Bitcoin | https://blocktap.io - Lightning powered crypto query engine
Paladin69
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 784
Merit: 1000


View Profile
November 06, 2013, 07:51:33 PM
 #3

Except for during the CPU days and maybe the earliest GPU days, I think it was always cheaper to buy BTC directly than to mine for it.  You could've bought so much BTC in 2010-2011 than buy a $300-$400 video card.
odolvlobo
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 4494
Merit: 3400



View Profile
November 10, 2013, 06:55:29 AM
 #4

Does anyone have a clue why all of the asic companies are keeping prices as they are now, where's the business case there?

As long as customers are lining up to buy the equipment before it is even designed, the prices will stay high. That won't last forever.

Join an anti-signature campaign: Click ignore on the members of signature campaigns.
PGP Fingerprint: 6B6BC26599EC24EF7E29A405EAF050539D0B2925 Signing address: 13GAVJo8YaAuenj6keiEykwxWUZ7jMoSLt
DPoS
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 462
Merit: 250



View Profile
November 10, 2013, 07:41:05 AM
 #5

why do you think only people with btc/cash in hand are buying?? 

lots of ways to use 0% interest or other creative ways like wall street / big corp does...  time value of money and all that jazz, roll over loans year-to-year..   claim on taxes on your 'business'  who knows but all the tricks are in play


~~BTC~~GAMBIT~~BTC~~Play Boardgames for Bitcoins!!~~BTC~~GAMBIT~~BTC~~ Something I say help? Donate BTC! 1KN1K1xStzsgfYxdArSX4PEjFfcLEuYhid
1l1l11ll1l
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1274
Merit: 1000


View Profile WWW
November 12, 2013, 05:50:01 PM
 #6

why do you think only people with btc/cash in hand are buying?? 

lots of ways to use 0% interest or other creative ways like wall street / big corp does...  time value of money and all that jazz, roll over loans year-to-year..   claim on taxes on your 'business'  who knows but all the tricks are in play



My current model is buying ASICS on 0% credit card, mine and pay off the card. I try to wait as long as I can before paying off the card, as the BTC price tends to trend upwards.

DPoS
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 462
Merit: 250



View Profile
November 12, 2013, 06:55:19 PM
 #7

why do you think only people with btc/cash in hand are buying?? 

lots of ways to use 0% interest or other creative ways like wall street / big corp does...  time value of money and all that jazz, roll over loans year-to-year..   claim on taxes on your 'business'  who knows but all the tricks are in play



My current model is buying ASICS on 0% credit card, mine and pay off the card. I try to wait as long as I can before paying off the card, as the BTC price tends to trend upwards.

Same here..  I broke that getting a couple modules from KNC today but it was only ~5.8 BTC

Remember you may be able to roll over some of that debt to another 0% card if you play it right (pay off the one, then use the new 0% for all expenses.. don't pay transfer fees)

~~BTC~~GAMBIT~~BTC~~Play Boardgames for Bitcoins!!~~BTC~~GAMBIT~~BTC~~ Something I say help? Donate BTC! 1KN1K1xStzsgfYxdArSX4PEjFfcLEuYhid
marra (OP)
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 189
Merit: 100


View Profile
March 14, 2014, 08:52:16 PM
 #8

Here we are 4 months later, same thing, asic prices roi-, even scryptgpu btc invest roi-, diff went up 10 fold, price only 3 fold... two ways, the difficulty is going to decrease 50ish% or the price will follow as in late November... Wonder if this time would be any different...

$1 = 1 satoshi  ☰☱☲☳☷☷☳☲☰☰☱☲☳☷☳☲☰☰☱☲☲☳☷☷☳☲☳☱☷☷☳☲☰☰☰☰☲☳☳
☳☲☰☰☱☲☳☷☷☳☲☰☰☱☲☳☲☳☷☷☳☳☳☲☰☰☱☲☲☳☷☷☳☳☲☰☰☱☲☲☳☷☷☳☰☱☲☳
Pages: [1]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!