Instant-Payout Mining - BitPenny.com

[OneFixt]

BitPenny is BACK!
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=36371.0


BitPenny will be shut down indefinitely at 11:59PM 4/2/2011 EST due to continued and unsustainable losses.
Withdrawals will continue to be available.
The IRC channel will remain open.
BitPenny may be back in the future under a different model.

Thank you to everyone who has participated.

www.BitPenny.com

• Get paid a fixed amount* of BTC for every share z
  • Immune to cheating by timing attacks.
  • No need to wait for confirmations.
  • No competition with other users.
  • No registration required.
  • Withdraw at any time.
  • Near-0 variance.
  
  Connect your favorite miner with your bitcoin address as the username, and you're done!
  
  Please be sure to upgrade your miner to the latest version before joining.
  
  m0mchil's miner example
  poclbm.py -d 1 -u 1AaLK8yCgaqUhtmHEkmgfMhWLFSt9MhTLB --pass xyzzy -o bitpenny.dyndns.biz -p 8332
  
       Kiv's GUI frontend for m0mchil's miner (poclbm)
       the GUI has a built-in profile for BitPenny, and also supports balance checks and withdrawals
  
  jgarzik's miner example
  minerd --url=http://bitpenny.dyndns.biz:8332 --userpass=1AaLK8yCgaqUhtmHEkmgfMhWLFSt9MhTLB:xyzzy
  
  DiabloMiner
  DiabloMiner-YourOS.sh -u 1AaLK8yCgaqUhtmHEkmgfMhWLFSt9MhTLB -p xyzzy -o bitpenny.dyndns.biz -r 8332
  
  join #bitcoin-bitpenny for more information
  
  <sub>due to current protocol limitations, you may only withdraw in multiples of .01 BTC
  this is to avoid sub-cent amounts from being lost when coins are divided
  
  withdrawals are available through the website or through the GUI frontend for poclbm
  
  the service is currently in beta, so there may be changes
  
  *The current rate is equivalent to 90% of theoretical expected value.</sub>

[1714264856]

1714264856

[1714264856]

1714264856

[BitterTea]

Quite an interesting idea. How is the payout calculated?

[twobitcoins]

Current payout rate: 0.00173091 BTC

Current difficulty: 25997.87992881

0.00173091 * 25997.87992881 = 44.9999903475765171

So it looks like the site pays out 45 of every 50 BTC, keeping 5 BTC or 10% for the site operator.

I think it is a great service to provide a fixed payout, and I can understand the need to keep a percentage given that you are effectively insuring against variability of block finding success.  But it is important to be upfront about what you are charging for the service.

[OneFixt]

Current payout rate: 0.00173091 BTC

Current difficulty: 25997.87992881

0.00173091 * 25997.87992881 = 44.9999903475765171

So it looks like the site pays out 45 of every 50 BTC, keeping 5 BTC or 10% for the site operator.

I think it is a great service to provide a fixed payout, and I can understand the need to keep a percentage given that you are effectively insuring against variability of block finding success.  But it is important to be upfront about what you are charging for the service.

Thank you for the feedback!  I have added this to the description.

[stevenbucks]

umm sorry i am a bit new to bitcoin,

so how exactly do we get paid per hour ? or when ever we get a block? if its when ever we get a block - wouldnt it take 2 months or so :-(

[BitLex]

this server is (just like slush's pool) running at a difficulty of 1,
so you should be able to find a matching hash every hour or so even on slower CPUs.

you get paid for each and every hash you submit (and that has been accepted),
it doesn't matter if anyone solves a block or not and it also doesn't matter how many others use the system,
you get a fixed amount (0.00173091) for each hash you submit.

i've been running a miner on bitpenny for >16hours now with a performance of ~87.8%,
sure, it's less than "average" solo-mining, but a stable, steady income that you can count on (no need for luck) and it's paid instantly.

great service, especially for very slow miners that might not find a single hash within pool-round-duration-time,
guess they'll lose more on pools (the more the bigger a pool gets) than the ~12.5% on this server.

i'll keep testing it for a while

[stevenbucks]

this server is (just like slush's pool) running at a difficulty of 1,
so you should be able to find a matching hash every hour or so even on slower CPUs.

you get paid for each and every hash you submit (and that has been accepted),
it doesn't matter if anyone solves a block or not and it also doesn't matter how many others use the system,
you get a fixed amount (0.00173091) for each hash you submit.

i've been running a miner on bitpenny for >16hours now with a performance of ~87.8%,
sure, it's less than "average" solo-mining, but a stable, steady income that you can count on (no need for luck) and it's paid instantly.

great service, especially for very slow miners that might not find a single hash within pool-round-duration-time,
guess they'll lose more on pools (the more the bigger a pool gets) than the ~12.5% on this server.

i'll keep testing it for a while

is the hash submitted automatically? im sorry im a noob i know
thanks for explaining :-)

[BitLex]

it sure is,
when you connect to the server, your miner asks for some data and starts hashing that data,
all found "winning-hashes" are automagically sent to the server.

[stevenbucks]

it sure is,
when you connect to the server, your miner asks for some data and starts hashing that data,
all found "winning-hashes" are automagically sent to the server.

o wow thanks so much for the help!!

another (offtopic)question - are u accepting lindens for bitcoins :-)

[slush]

guess they'll lose more on pools (the more the bigger a pool gets) than the ~12.5% on this server.

Can you explain this more, please?

[BitLex]

i can try  

Alice runs a pool.
Bob's miner gets 500khash/s, which earns him about 1share every 2hours.
Bob's miner is connected to Alice's pool.
Alice's pool is that big, that it creates ~1block per hour.
Bob only gets a share of half the blocks created by Alice's pool, although he's connected 24/7.

[BitLex]

another (offtopic)question - are u accepting lindens for bitcoins :-)

of course i do. 

[stevenbucks]

another (offtopic)question - are u accepting lindens for bitcoins :-)

of course i do. 

Great - i sent you a pm - ty so much for answering my questions. Cant wait to do a exchange with you!

[gusti]

Is it possible to point more than one miner using the same payment address, or is only one miner per address ?

[BitLex]

it's fine running multiple miners with a single address.
your choice to use a single address, or one for each miner.

[Cablesaurus]

I was curious, what percentage does this pool "take"?

Sorry, might not be wording my question right, but I was wondering what you meant by it is running at 87.5%  specifically in comparison to regular mining

I'm also curious what this pool would compare to other pools in net income such as slush' pool, etc... I'm running 620 or so khash but I'm considering pooling cuz I just have to always end up rebooting my computer and such due to it also being a workstation

[OneFixt]

I was curious, what percentage does this pool "take"?

Sorry, might not be wording my question right, but I was wondering what you meant by it is running at 87.5%  specifically in comparison to regular mining

"Take" is actually a bit of a misnomer, as the server only gives out.  What happens is that the server pays you 90% of your statistical expected return, and keeps the actual return, which could be anything depending on luck.  You might lose a few percent over your expected value due to stale blocks resulting from network overhead, which is how BitLex ended up with 87.8% return.

At 620Kh/s, you will solve a block every 5 years, 37 weeks at the current difficulty.  Since difficulty will keep going up, you are likely to never actually solve a block on your own.

However, your expected return per hour is 50/50027, or .000999460 BTC/hour.

Mining at BitPenny at the current difficulty, you will solve one share on average every 1 hour and 55 minutes, 27 seconds, earning .00173091 BTC, the equivalent of about .0009 BTC/hour.

You could withdraw your first .01 BTC in about 11 hours and 7 minutes.

[slush]

Bob only gets a share of half the blocks created by Alice's pool, although he's connected 24/7.

Which is, of course, irrelevant. Bob gets all money corresponding to his hashrate. There is no reason why user with 1 hash/s should get a penny from every block.

Simply said, only difference between this and my pool is that  OneFixt take risk on his own, but cut payments for 10%. I don't take risk of mining probability, so miners payouts are not _so_ clear (but they are at least at daily scope), but I don't cut off payments (except donations).

Both modes fits to another audience, so it's OK, but don't say "this is better for XYZ miners, because those big players on slush's pool cut off your money", that's not true.

[slush]

"Take" is actually a bit of a misnomer, as the server only gives out. 

I like your service, but please, don't mist the reality that earn 50BTC against your pool is like mining standalone with higher than current difficulty, something around +10%. It is absolutely OK, as you take a risk of block variance and must be ready for unlucky times, but it is real cut off.

[dishwara]

I am started mining at 2500khash/s. Let see when i get atleast 0.1BTC

[OneFixt]

"Take" is actually a bit of a misnomer, as the server only gives out.

I like your service, but please, don't mist the reality that earn 50BTC against your pool is like mining standalone with higher than current difficulty, something around +10%. It is absolutely OK, as you take a risk of block variance and must be ready for unlucky times, but it is real cut off.

Sorry if this didn't sound right; the server certainly returns 10% less than expected value, as I went on to reiterate in the rest of the post.  I've also placed it in the description:

*Please note that in order to keep this service viable, the server pays out less than the expected value of mining alone.

What I meant to say is that BitPenny does not take a part of the winning block (it does not directly "tax" actual winnings that a miner makes), since it pays before the block is found.  It takes 10% of the expected value.  

I felt that it was important to make this distinction to stress the core feature of BitPenny - that the user does not suffer when there are few generators connected to the server, or during any unlucky streaks or any other issues, since he still makes 90% of his expected value regularly, even during the times when the server loses realized BTC.

[comboy]

I like the idea very much. 10% sounds ok for me, mostly not because of risk associated with variance, but because this pool is going to be used rather by slower miners, so higher server maintenance cost compared to income (many getworks, not so many blocks). Also using bitcoin address as login is very clever.

[OneFixt]

I like the idea very much. 10% sounds ok for me, mostly not because of risk associated with variance, but because this pool is going to be used rather by slower miners, so higher server maintenance cost compared to income (many getworks, not so many blocks). Also using bitcoin address as login is very clever.

Thank you for the support 

[foo]

At 620Kh/s, you will solve a block every 5 years, 37 weeks at the current difficulty.  Since difficulty will keep going up, you are likely to never actually solve a block on your own.

However, your expected return per hour is 50/50027, or .000999460 BTC/hour.

Mining at BitPenny at the current difficulty, you will solve one share on average every 1 hour and 55 minutes, 27 seconds, earning .00173091 BTC, the equivalent of about .0009 BTC/hour.

Hi, could you explain how you calculated these times?

[gusti]

At 620Kh/s, you will solve a block every 5 years, 37 weeks at the current difficulty.  Since difficulty will keep going up, you are likely to never actually solve a block on your own.

However, your expected return per hour is 50/50027, or .000999460 BTC/hour.

Mining at BitPenny at the current difficulty, you will solve one share on average every 1 hour and 55 minutes, 27 seconds, earning .00173091 BTC, the equivalent of about .0009 BTC/hour.

Hi, could you explain how you calculated these times?

http://www.alloscomp.com/bitcoin/calculator.php

[Cablesaurus]

Sorry, I meant I get 620,000khash/s on my 5970.

I'm considering pooled mining since I have to constantly reboot my machine and don't like the "luck" aspect.

Can anyone tell me if it's be more profitous for me to use Slush', or this mining pool, given the "heavy hitter" mining I'm doing?

[Garrett Burgwardt]

I'm running a 24 hour test, I'll let you know

[BitterTea]

Sorry, I meant I get 620,000khash/s on my 5970.

I'm considering pooled mining since I have to constantly reboot my machine and don't like the "luck" aspect.

Can anyone tell me if it's be more profitous for me to use Slush', or this mining pool, given the "heavy hitter" mining I'm doing?

I'm fairly certain you will get more money from Slush's pool or mining on your own. Here are the benefits of each method, as I see them.

Solo mining
Pros
Simplest method. Complete transparency, fewer possible technical issues. You keep all the money.
Cons
Lots of variability, completely dependent on luck. For CPUs, it's not really worthwhile. Must wait for 100(?) blocks before your generated coin is available.

Slush-like pool
Pros
Less variability, since you only have to find a solution with a difficulty of 1 in order to get a share. Smaller, but more frequent payouts. Should work out to be roughly the same payout over time as solo mining.
Cons
Not as transparent, there a risk that the pool operator is not honest. Other miners gaming the pool could also negatively impact your reward. Must wait for 100(?) blocks before the generated coin is available. More possibility for technical issues.

BitPenny-like pool
Pros
Extremely low variability, since you are getting paid a fixed amount per share, and shares are relatively easy to find. Immediate payout. Transparency is not (I don't think) an issue since you know up front how much per share you should receive, and can keep track of your shares.
Cons
Payouts will by design be lower over time compared to other mining methods. The same possibility for technical issues as other pools.

[Cablesaurus]

Sorry, I meant I get 620,000khash/s on my 5970.

I'm considering pooled mining since I have to constantly reboot my machine and don't like the "luck" aspect.

Can anyone tell me if it's be more profitous for me to use Slush', or this mining pool, given the "heavy hitter" mining I'm doing?

I'm fairly certain you will get more money from Slush's pool or mining on your own. Here are the benefits of each method, as I see them.

Solo mining
Pros
Simplest method. Complete transparency, fewer possible technical issues. You keep all the money.
Cons
Lots of variability, completely dependent on luck. For CPUs, it's not really worthwhile. Must wait for 100(?) blocks before your generated coin is available.

Slush-like pool
Pros
Less variability, since you only have to find a solution with a difficulty of 1 in order to get a share. Smaller, but more frequent payouts. Should work out to be roughly the same payout over time as solo mining.
Cons
Not as transparent, there a risk that the pool operator is not honest. Other miners gaming the pool could also negatively impact your reward. Must wait for 100(?) blocks before the generated coin is available. More possibility for technical issues.

BitPenny-like pool
Pros
Extremely low variability, since you are getting paid a fixed amount per share, and shares are relatively easy to find. Immediate payout. Transparency is not (I don't think) an issue since you know up front how much per share you should receive, and can keep track of your shares.
Cons
Payouts will by design be lower over time compared to other mining methods. The same possibility for technical issues as other pools.

Thank you, could you elaborate a bit on what you mean by slush' pool being "maniupulated" or "gamed"? (Not insinuating anything just want to be informed as possible.)

I understand the fixed payout method of BitPenny's pool, but I've looked through Slush' thread and don't entirely understand how it's different.

[Cryptoman]

Thank you, could you elaborate a bit on what you mean by slush' pool being "maniupulated" or "gamed"? (Not insinuating anything just want to be informed as possible.)

See this thread: http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3165.0.  I don't think the threat is realistic at this point, especially since slush has taken measures to reduce the likelihood of this happening.

I understand the fixed payout method of BitPenny's pool, but I've looked through Slush' thread and don't entirely understand how it's different.

Slush pays his workers according to the number of shares contributed.  A share is a solution of a low-difficulty hash.  This payout only occurs once a block is generated, however.  BitPenny pays out regardless, under the assumption that the pool will generate a block at some point.  Statistically, the payout should be very close, especially considering the size of slush's pool.  Actually, the payout should be lower from BitPenny's pool since the commission is higher (slush charges 0-6%, your choice).

I could see BitPenny's pool being useful if your CPU is so slow that you have a hard time even solving slush's smaller targets.  Then again, if that's the case, you probably shouldn't be wasting the electricity.  I'd love to see slush implement variable-sized targets.  You could start each worker with an easy target and then gradually increase the difficulty until it reaches some optimal value (for a given hash rate, network latency, etc.).  Or, let the user select individual difficulties for each worker.

[Cablesaurus]

Does Slush' pool pay out less to you if you have a lower donation threshhold set?

[gcrocker]

minerd, from here: http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1925.0 seems to work fine with BitPenny:

./minerd -a4way -t8 --url http://bitpenny.dyndns.biz:8332 --userpass 1AaLK8yCgaqUhtmHEkmgfMhWLFSt9MhTLB:xyzzy

(on an 8-cpu Mac Pro. Use the right -t value for your computer.)

[slush]

Does Slush' pool pay out less to you if you have a lower donation threshhold set?

no

[gusti]

Pls separate away the "withdraw to your account" button from "check your balance" one.  :-)

[OneFixt]

minerd, from here: http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1925.0 seems to work fine with BitPenny:

./minerd -a4way -t8 --url http://bitpenny.dyndns.biz:8332 --userpass 1AaLK8yCgaqUhtmHEkmgfMhWLFSt9MhTLB:xyzzy

(on an 8-cpu Mac Pro. Use the right -t value for your computer.)

Thank you, I've added this miner to the list.

[Garrett Burgwardt]

Alright, mining away with dual 5870s and a 5770, I've made about the same amount in 24 hours using bitpenny as I did in slush's pool (going by the 7 day average).

So given that I can withdraw instantly with Bitpenny, I'm gonna stay here. Here's hoping I can acquire some shiny graphs to look at and gloat about how much I'm making daily!

[Garrett Burgwardt]

Also, be sure to put in a receiving address, I lost about 27 coins (1 day's mining) to a sending address xD

[BitterTea]

Also, be sure to put in a receiving address, I lost about 27 coins (1 day's mining) to a sending address xD

Oh, like a recipient in your address book? Did you just donate 27 bitcoin to someone?

[Garrett Burgwardt]

Yeah pretty much heh, my bad.   

[LZ]

The current payout rate (0.00173091 BTC) is extremely low!

[OneFixt]

The current payout rate (0.00173091 BTC) is extremely low!

lzsaver, thanks for including a description of BitPenny in the Russian forum (though the link is not pointing to the right thread).

The 10% commission may seem high, but please note that it is 10% of expected value, not 10% of mined blocks.  This means that users always make 90% of their theoretical maximum, with no "bad days".  The server takes all the risk and will even operate at a loss when necessary.

Some people may be confused since your thread is titled "Bce o пyлax coвмecтнoй гeнepaции", ("All about cooperative mining pools"), but BitPenny is not a cooperative pool.  Rather, it is a server which pays for hashes with its own BTC funds, taking a large risk in order to provide the smoothest possible payout to its miners.  Even if only a handful of slow miners connect to BitPenny, they will all be making BTC on every submitted hash, without having to worry about the number of other connected miners or the actual rate of generation.

It can be difficult to compare a cooperative pool with BitPenny without trying BitPenny first, so I would encourage everyone to try it to really get a feel for the difference, and then to choose whichever mining solution they prefer.

[ribuck]

The 10% commission may seem high.

10% doesn't seem high to me. If someone wants to provide a similar service for a lower commission, nothing is stopping them. Right now, you have the lowest commission rate for "per-share" mining payouts.

[Quantumboredom]

Pretty nice service, seems to be working as described. I'm not sure if I will be using BitPenny.com or solo mining (10% will after all add up to a bit over time), but the steady generation rate is very nice

[OneFixt]

Pretty nice service, seems to be working as described. I'm not sure if I will be using BitPenny.com or solo mining (10% will after all add up to a bit over time), but the steady generation rate is very nice

Thanks!
If you choose to mine solo, please feel free to stop by here, from time to time, to raise your morale after those unlucky streaks  

[wscott]

I used bitpenny today and got my first penny within a couple hours.  Thanks!

I can see why this works great for me, but I am confused about something.  What protects the guy running bitpenny.com from fraud?  Can't I tweak my miner to send proof of work blocks to him, but keep any solved blocks for myself?

[wscott]

I can see why this works great for me, but I am confused about something.  What protects the guy running bitpenny.com from fraud?  Can't I tweak my miner to send proof of work blocks to him, but keep any solved blocks for myself?

I see now.  The hashes being generated payout to an address owned by bitpenny.com.  So solving a block does me no good.
Right?

[ribuck]

The hashes being generated payout to an address owned by bitpenny.com ... Right?

Right! If only I had a bitcoin for every time this question has been asked.

[Cablesaurus]

Getting some connection problems, frequent intermittant "Problems connecting to Bitcoin RPC" errors.

I'm connecting fine to Slush' pool so it seems to be a server connection issue.

[dishwara]

"Problems connecting to Bitcoin RPC"

Not mining.

[OneFixt]

BitPenny has completed the first round of beta testing and is down for updates (please see the first post for details).
You may still check and withdraw your balances at any time.

[veoddex]

Oh too bad  I just started testing it today... I have a slow computer and have not yet solved a block. Hopefully you will get it back up and running soon, OneFixt.

[ronaldmaustin]

I currently generate alot of Bitcoins, so 10% would not be worth it to me.  Your commission would add up to several hundred dollars over just a few months, instead of the pennies paid by CPU miners.  However, if you added this to a service which could immediately list and sell the coins on MtGox for market price (which costs just over half of one percent) and then exchange the proceeds and have it delivered to PayPal (which PayPal does for free, I think) then this adds only the Liberty Dollar (MtGox uses them) fee of 1% plus whatever fee you could negotiate with a currency exhanger (a couple of percent?)  

Thus, you'd still make 6-7% (still hundreds of dollars from me to you) but you may get some of the big Bitcoin generators like me who just want to calculate hashes and get cash (sorry for being a capitalist folks).  I would personally jump at this as it would remove from the equation having to:

1) Wait for blocks to mature to get payout from mining pool.
2) Log into MtGox and enter the amount I want to send MtGox.
3) Enter the address MtGox gives me into my bitcoin wallet and send to MtGox.
4) Wait 15 minutes for those funds to make it to MtGox and then place a trade order.
5) Take the proceeds, less .065%, and forward those to LibertyReserve (which MtGox requires).
6) Use the lengthy LibertyReserve login process to see funds have made it, less 1% for the liberty dollar I never wanted.
7) Sell the liberty dollar through an exchanger for a few percent.
Get money in PayPal - PROFIT!

Skipping directly to step 8 would be nice for me.  Maybe you can cut a deal with MtGox and eliminate Liberty Dollar entirely, saving 1%.  Cut a volume deal directly with someone who exchanges Bitcoins for PayPal delivery.  This would be an incentive for MtGox as well as you would drive business there exclusively.  Cut out all of the middlemen.

[OneFixt]

I currently generate alot of Bitcoins, so 10% would not be worth it to me.  Your commission would add up to several hundred dollars over just a few months, instead of the pennies paid by CPU miners.  However, if you added this to a service which could immediately list and sell the coins on MtGox for market price (which costs just over half of one percent) and then exchange the proceeds and have it delivered to PayPal (which PayPal does for free, I think) then this adds only the Liberty Dollar (MtGox uses them) fee of 1% plus whatever fee you could negotiate with a currency exhanger (a couple of percent?)  

Thus, you'd still make 6-7% (still hundreds of dollars from me to you) but you may get some of the big Bitcoin generators like me who just want to calculate hashes and get cash (sorry for being a capitalist folks).  I would personally jump at this as it would remove from the equation having to:

1) Wait for blocks to mature to get payout from mining pool.
2) Log into MtGox and enter the amount I want to send MtGox.
3) Enter the address MtGox gives me into my bitcoin wallet and send to MtGox.
4) Wait 15 minutes for those funds to make it to MtGox and then place a trade order.
5) Take the proceeds, less .065%, and forward those to LibertyReserve (which MtGox requires).
6) Use the lengthy LibertyReserve login process to see funds have made it, less 1% for the liberty dollar I never wanted.
7) Sell the liberty dollar through an exchanger for a few percent.
Get money in PayPal - PROFIT!

Skipping directly to step 8 would be nice for me.  Maybe you can cut a deal with MtGox and eliminate Liberty Dollar entirely, saving 1%.  Cut a volume deal directly with someone who exchanges Bitcoins for PayPal delivery.  This would be an incentive for MtGox as well as you would drive business there exclusively.  Cut out all of the middlemen.

We could potentially get you to step 4: getting the BTC directly into MtGox with no wait.  After that, though, you would get into trouble.  BitPenny cannot sell for you as that would be a conflict of interest.  You would also lose a very large percentage of your income by selling during market bottoms, at high spreads, and during times of high volatility.

[Cryptoman]

You could pay with PayPal directly.  Then there is no longer any real exchange taking place.  The mining service is paying for computer time (hashes) with USD or EUR or whatever and pocketing the BTC.

[OneFixt]

You could pay with PayPal directly.  Then there is no longer any real exchange taking place.  The mining service is paying for computer time (hashes) with USD or EUR or whatever and pocketing the BTC.

Unfortunately, that would be straying too far from the simplicity of what BitPenny is intended to do: there would have to be a floating rather than a fixed rate, a slew of price-manipulation exploits would be introduced on both the clients' and the server's side, and BitPenny would have an even harder time keeping an adequate supply of coins and/or currency on hand to pay the miners.  For these and other reasons, BitPenny will only ever deal directly in BTC.

The best way to accomplish what you are looking to do would be for someone to set up a complimentary service.  This service would give you a permanent BTC address, and it would buy your coins at market price whenever you sent them to that address.  Then you could mine directly to that address through BitPenny.

[ronaldmaustin]

We could potentially get you to step 4: getting the BTC directly into MtGox with no wait.  After that, though, you would get into trouble.  BitPenny cannot sell for you as that would be a conflict of interest.  You would also lose a very large percentage of your income by selling during market bottoms, at high spreads, and during times of high volatility.

So long as BitPenny is just immediately selling on MtGox at market rates, I fail to see the conflict.  As I cannot define the market bottoms and what is considered volatile in the market, for either myself or BitPenny to refrain from immediate sale upon generation would be currency speculation, which does not enter into the business model proposed.  However, the poster who said just pay PayPal for hashs hit the nail on the head.  THAT I would be willing to pay 10% for to eliminate loss of time, and possibly Bitcoins, with all the given transfers.  For example, right now I want to transfer $100 out of MtGox to LibertyReserve and cannot do so because I believe the owner of MtGox does not currently have funds on deposit at LibertyReserve, so I have to wait.

[Cablesaurus]

Just wondering if there's any update on when BP will be back up

[OneFixt]

Just wondering if there's any update on when BP will be back up

It's planned to be by the end of this week, but there is no hard date.

[TiagoTiago]

Sorry for the bump, no other way to be notified of new msgs on this thread

[Mayeutik]

Sorry for the bump, no other way to be notified of new msgs on this thread

Same as TiagoTiago! Need to follow this thread, but the only way is to post 

[OneFixt]

Sorry for the bump, no other way to be notified of new msgs on this thread

Same as TiagoTiago! Need to follow this thread, but the only way is to post 

Please feel free to stick around the BitPenny IRC channel to get news as it comes out.

[Mayeutik]

Yep, I'm also connected on the chan (lainux on irc )

[Ownski]

Why was there a sudden drop in the current btc rate. It was .0012 now its .0008. 33% lower then before? can you explain this?

[Ricochet]

Bitcoin difficulty increased by ~50% on Sunday, thus the payout for the same hashrate decreased by ~50% to compensate.

[Psychoactive]

Hey!!  Not only did the payout decrease, but my balance was adjusted downwards.  That includes work I did at the higher payout rate.  This is theft!

[BitterTea]

Yo

Hey!!  Not only did the payout decrease, but my balance was adjusted downwards.  That includes work I did at the higher payout rate.  This is theft!

You should probably provide some evidence for this allegation.

[BitLex]

indeed, maybe he doesn't know that payout decreases with raising difficulty
and didn't notice that there's 2 servers and also 2 balances.

my leftover sub-bitcent balance on the old server is still there (although i can't withdraw it because its <0.01btc)
and the new server so far works better than the old one.

[OneFixt]

indeed, maybe he doesn't know that payout decreases with raising difficulty
and didn't notice that there's 2 servers and also 2 balances.

my leftover sub-bitcent balance on the old server is still there (although i can't withdraw it because its <0.01btc)
and the new server so far works better than the old one.

The two balances will be reconciled as soon as the new server undergoes enough testing to be considered stable.
If there are no problems, the old server will be shut down within a few days, at which point old balances will be transferred (added) to the new server.

[OneFixt]

BitPenny is back and open to the public!

All balances have been transferred to the new server.

Please make sure that you are using the hostname to connect and not hardcoding the IP.

[Tril]

BTC is not a meaningful unit of rate.  Please update bitpenny.com to publish the actual unit, maybe it's BTC/s, BTC/h, BTC/day or BTC/getwork; I have no idea. Thanks.

[slush]

BTC is not a meaningful unit of rate.  Please update bitpenny.com to publish the actual unit, maybe it's BTC/s, BTC/h, BTC/day or BTC/getwork; I have no idea. Thanks.

But BTC per share IS meaningful rate...

[M4v3R]

Tried this for a short time, did some math and it seems that (for me) this pool pays 8-10% less than slush's pool, so I think I'll stick with the latter .

[[Tycho]]

Tried this for a short time, did some math and it seems that (for me) this pool pays 8-10% less than slush's pool, so I think I'll stick with the latter ;).

8% less is exactly how it should be :) Because slush's fee is 2% and bitpenny's is 10%.
Very nice if you expect long blocks or want some consistency.

[BitLex]

while testing the old bitpenny server, my payout was about 87.5%, taking into account that max 90% are paid out and expecting 2-3% loss caused by connectivity/overhead, this seemed not too bad.

running on the new server for ~2days now my payouts are impressive,
89-90%, means there's almost zero network-loss.

good job OneFixt!

it seems that (for me) this pool pays 8-10% less than slush's pool

obviously, but you can't really compare bitpenny with slush's pool anyway,
you could compare it to the pay-per-share mode on deepbit.

[radracer]

according to ufasoft in his post, bitpenny doesnt work with his miner because:

"WinInet firstly makes request without Login/Password. But this pool incorrectly returns "OK" HTTP code in Response Headers."

http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3486.msg66883#new

[snedie]

Tempted to jump on this at 1.3Ghash/s. Soon as I get my next large payment from BTCPool I come on for a couple hours and see what I get.

Any estimations?

[[Tycho]]

Tempted to jump on this at 1.3Ghash/s. Soon as I get my next large payment from BTCPool I come on for a couple hours and see what I get.
Any estimations?

15.4450436053 BTC per day and 0.643543483555 BTC per hour.

[snedie]

Tempted to jump on this at 1.3Ghash/s. Soon as I get my next large payment from BTCPool I come on for a couple hours and see what I get.
Any estimations?

15.4450436053 BTC per day and 0.643543483555 BTC per hour.

Thanks Tycho

[touristas]

So just to clear things up.

Ive got a small hash rate of around 100Mhash/s

Left pc mining found that i make about 78.5 accepted shares per hour.
That comes out to about 0.136BTC per hour right ?
So even if the correct block isn't found from the pool on bitpenny's server we still get paid 

[Garrett Burgwardt]

So just to clear things up.

Ive got a small hash rate of around 100Mhash/s

Left pc mining found that i make about 78.5 accepted shares per hour.
That comes out to about 0.136BTC per hour right ?
So even if the correct block isn't found from the pool on bitpenny's server we still get paid 

Yep - since each share has X percent chance of being a winning hash, he pays out X-10% for each hash. So you make less, but you also get consistent payouts and can withdraw instantly.

[touristas]

So just to clear things up.

Ive got a small hash rate of around 100Mhash/s

Left pc mining found that i make about 78.5 accepted shares per hour.
That comes out to about 0.136BTC per hour right ?
So even if the correct block isn't found from the pool on bitpenny's server we still get paid 

Yep - since each share has X percent chance of being a winning hash, he pays out X-10% for each hash. So you make less, but you also get consistent payouts and can withdraw instantly.

Thanks kiddo
I'm new in this mining stuff.
Just trying to figure out where it is best for low hash users.
Does the per share rate change ?_?

Hope more have these questions !

[Ricochet]

The per-share rate will change when the difficulty changes, which should happen approximately every two weeks in theory.  The difficulty is currently predicted to actually decrease for the first time in sometime less than a week.

In theory, over an extended period of time you will get the same number of shares no matter which pool you're using or which distribution method being used, and the overall payment should be the same.  At that point it's a matter of how much the pool itself is taking as its cut.  Here it's 10%, while other pools may charge less.  For BitPenny the advantage is that you get a fixed amount of money per share contributed, so the amount received is more predictable.  With other systems, the payout per person is only determined at the moment the block is actually solved, and then it's divided based on how many shares each person contributed vs the total number of contributed shares. 

Slush's pool takes it one step further and weighs shares found just before solving the block higher than shares found early in the round.  This is an anti-cheating effort, and again in the long-run the final payout should remain the same as with any other system.

[OneFixt]

A new way to connect to BitPenny - Kiv's GUI frontend for poclbm
Remember to set your "Extra flags" to the appropriate values for your mining hardware (GPU).
Please note that the GUI currently rounds balances to the nearest .01 for display purposes.

[dishwara]

http://www.bitcoincharts.com/bitcoin/

There are 1492 unconfirmed transactions.

Every one can check in this site whether you have been sent coins or Onefixt cheating you.

Go to the above address & you will see a lot of Date, time,...some numbers....input, output.....
& you can see your unconfirmed bitcoin also.

"Hey are you crazy, how can i see my transactions in this zillions of numbers"-- I can hear that.

Simple, just hit ctrl+f in windows or anything in Linux to search on current webpage, & in the search field, enter the bitcoin address/addresses you put in your profile in the bitpenny.com, or you can use the address in the address book of your bitcoin client. I gave a label "bitpenny" to the address i gave to bitpenny.com, so i don't have to worry from whom i got bitcoins.... & hit enter.

You will be dddddddddddddddirectly taken to your address in the zillions of numbers & address & your address will be in orange.
You can see above your address, it is unconfirmed & also date, time, amount.........many things.

Holy banana.

you find it useful, see my address in signature in red & donate.
Thanks.

[OneFixt]

Every one can check in this site whether you have been sent coins or Onefixt cheating you.
...
I know you find it useful, & i am expecting donation from you.

Please don't use fear tactics to solicit donations.

BitPenny gives out the transaction ID after every successful withdrawal attempt.  
This transaction ID can be seen on #bitcoin-monitor, www.bitcoinmonitor.com, www.bitcoincharts.com/bitcoin, and www.blockexplorer.com

If you lose the transaction ID, you can still search for your receiving address to see the queued transaction.
Any delays arising after the transaction has been posted are due to the state of the network, and are unrelated to BitPenny.

All of this has been stated previously on #bitcoin-bitpenny.

[OneFixt]

BitPenny will be shut down indefinitely at 11:59PM 4/2/2011 EST due to continued and unsustainable losses.

Withdrawals will continue to be available.

The IRC channel will remain open.

BitPenny may be back in the future under a different model.


Thank you to everyone who has participated.

[Miner-TE]

I'm sorry to hear this,  I thought you had a great site.

Guys,  I suggest we send donations to OneFixT and soften the losses that occurred.

[cdhowie]

BitPenny will be shut down indefinitely at 11:59PM 4/2/2011 EST due to continued and unsustainable losses.

Really sorry to hear that man.  I can't in good conscience keep everything I've earned from your pool, so I'm sending half of it back.  (Which isn't much to start with since I mainly ran CPU miners in your pool, but hopefully it will amount for something.)

Hopefully others will do the same.  Best of luck to you.

[OneFixt]

Thank you so much, cdhowie and Miner-TE, for your kind words and donations.  
I am very glad to hear that you enjoyed BitPenny, and very sad to have to take it down.
I hope to be able to bring BitPenny back in a different form at some point in the future, and am very encouraged knowing that I have had such kind-hearted users  

[slush]

OneFixt, I'm pretty unhappy that you are in red numbers, because your pool was very fair competitor. Did you do some analysis why the pool performed under 10% of teoretic income? It can be very long period of bad luck, but I feel that you were target of sabotage (of course it's just my feeling, I don't have hard data). There are people trying to hurt pools; almost every pool was DDoSed and I saw many tries of hacking. This experience was the reason why I rejected PPS model on my pool, so I'm curious if I was right...

[zoro]

sad news   
well, i hadn't tried bitpenny but i will donate a symbolic amount, just to keep the business rolling 

[OneFixt]

OneFixt, I'm pretty unhappy that you are in red numbers, because your pool was very fair competitor. Did you do some analysis why the pool performed under 10% of teoretic income? It can be very long period of bad luck, but I feel that you were target of sabotage (of course it's just my feeling, I don't have hard data). There are people trying to hurt pools; almost every pool was DDoSed and I saw many tries of hacking. This experience was the reason why I rejected PPS model on my pool, so I'm curious if I was right...

The DDoS attempts did not have much of an effect, but the block-withholding attacks did.  I collected enough statistics to be fairly certain that there was an attack, rather than simply bad luck.  You were correct in your reasoning.

Thanks again to all the people donating 

[xenon481]

OneFixt, I'm pretty unhappy that you are in red numbers, because your pool was very fair competitor. Did you do some analysis why the pool performed under 10% of teoretic income? It can be very long period of bad luck, but I feel that you were target of sabotage (of course it's just my feeling, I don't have hard data). There are people trying to hurt pools; almost every pool was DDoSed and I saw many tries of hacking. This experience was the reason why I rejected PPS model on my pool, so I'm curious if I was right...

The DDoS attempts did not have much of an effect, but the block-withholding attacks did.  I collected enough statistics to be fairly certain that there was an attack, rather than simply bad luck.  You were correct in your reasoning.

Thanks again to all the people donating 

The worst part of such an attack is that it is purely malicious.

The person performing the attack doesn't gain any extra income, and in fact loses a share each time it found a fully valid block.

[[Tycho]]

The worst part of such an attack is that it is purely malicious.
The person performing the attack doesn't gain any extra income, and in fact loses a share each time it found a fully valid block.

Not only the share, but also 10% fee.

[OneFixt]

The worst part of such an attack is that it is purely malicious.
The person performing the attack doesn't gain any extra income, and in fact loses a share each time it found a fully valid block.

Not only the share, but also 10% fee.

The attacker loses virtually nothing compared to an honest pool user, so it's purely malicious when compared with honest pool use.  An attacker loses 1/2^32 shares per block on average, so he still receives 99.9999999767% of what an honest pool user would get.

[[Tycho]]

The worst part of such an attack is that it is purely malicious.
The person performing the attack doesn't gain any extra income, and in fact loses a share each time it found a fully valid block.

Not only the share, but also 10% fee.

The attacker loses virtually nothing compared to an honest pool user, so it's purely malicious when compared with honest pool use.  An attacker loses 1/2^32 shares per block on average, so he still receives 99.9999999767% of what an honest pool user would get.

Yes. 10% if compared to solo mining or 7% if share/score based pool.
The attacker had to have high hashrate, so he had also chance to mine solo or somewhere else instead of attacking.

[slush]

Hard to believe that there is one of us trying to hurt bitcoin economy; sabotage can be (effectively) performed only with large mining rig. The motivation can be pretty clear - by killing pools, you'll have lower difficulty in the future...

[[Tycho]]

Hard to believe that there is one of us trying to hurt bitcoin economy; sabotage can be (effectively) performed only with large mining rig. The motivation can be pretty clear - by killing pools, you'll have lower difficulty in the future...

Killing a pool will only make people move to another or switch to solo mining. Even if all mining pools will be stopped, people with GPUs will just switch to solo.

And attacking a pool with unknown hashrate is strange idea anyway. Unless they tracked it's blocks.

[slush]

And attacking a pool with unknown hashrate is strange idea anyway. Unless they tracked it's blocks.

Afaik bitpenny was around 70Ghash, some people mentioned that on forum (but I don't know original source, maybe bitpenny's IRC channel?).

[[Tycho]]

And attacking a pool with unknown hashrate is strange idea anyway. Unless they tracked it's blocks.

Afaik bitpenny was around 70Ghash, some people mentioned that on forum (but I don't know original source, maybe bitpenny's IRC channel?).

70 Gh was mentioned on that "pool comparison site", but i'm not sure. Those 70 Gh should have already joined other pools after bitpenny shutdown, but where are they now ?
OneFixt didn't wanted to tell me his hashrate when i asked sometimes.

[grndzero]

Those 70 Gh should have already joined other pools after bitpenny shutdown, but where are they now ?

Bitcoinpool's has rate has nearly doubled in the last 3-4 days. Could be some of them.

[[Tycho]]

Those 70 Gh should have already joined other pools after bitpenny shutdown, but where are they now ?

Bitcoinpool's has rate has nearly doubled in the last 3-4 days. Could be some of them.

7-10 Gh isn't that close to 60-70.

[cdhowie]

7-10 Gh isn't that close to 60-70.

No, but it is a surge in activity -- nothing says that all ~65Gh must go to the same pool.  Most Bitpenny miners probably went to Deepbit PPS.  (That's where I took my slower miners.)

[OneFixt]

All remaining balances greater than or equal to .01 BTC have been disbursed automatically.

[Miner-TE]

i can't connect to rpc???

Shutdown..... Read thread.

[OneFixt]

BitPenny is back!
Since the model is entirely new, please join the new forum thread at https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=36371.0