What is your stance on capital punishment?

[Ginzink]

We know innocent people are convicted. That alone should be enough to not have the death penalty!

Also i do not think the ones comitting murder consider that they can be sentenced to death, just look at the fantastic land of the free.. What matters for crime is the society. And when put in jail how the conditions are. Being in a Norwegian jail is a paradise compared to the US, yet the amount of criminals is lower and the reformation is more succesfull. If interested see Michael Moore visiting Norwegian jail.

https://youtu.be/jDjISR5OHa4

And what about all the innocent people who are getting murdered? Should that alone not be enough to have the death penalty?

The innocent dead wont live again if the criminal is put to death. But the people convicted who were innocent will live if death punishment is not an alternative.

We know innocent people are convicted. That alone should be enough to not have the death penalty!

Also i do not think the ones comitting murder consider that they can be sentenced to death, just look at the fantastic land of the free.. What matters for crime is the society. And when put in jail how the conditions are. Being in a Norwegian jail is a paradise compared to the US, yet the amount of criminals is lower and the reformation is more succesfull. If interested see Michael Moore visiting Norwegian jail.

https://youtu.be/jDjISR5OHa4

Norwegian prisons are super nice. If there is any place in the world to commit a crime this is the place. Norway definitely has a different atmosphere than in the US.

Sounds kind of nice, but on another level it seems pretty messed up. Imagine some crazy dude comes into your house and murders your entire family. You happen to be out at the time so you don't get killed. The murder is then sent to a paradise campus for 25 years. That would really feel like... lack of "closure".

It is not paradise. They are still locked in and have strict rules to follow. I dont think there are many who would actualy want to spend time there even if the inmates are treated with respect and dignity.
But as the norwegian jail is focused on rehabilitation and not just punishment prisoners have a higher chance of returning to the society without commiting new crime.

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[funsponge]

It is not paradise. They are still locked in and have strict rules to follow. I dont think there are many who would actualy want to spend time there even if the inmates are treated with respect and dignity.
But as the norwegian jail is focused on rehabilitation and not just punishment prisoners have a higher chance of returning to the society without commiting new crime.

It may not be paradise but it's a surely better than some of the third world country prisons you come across there's some very nasty stories about how the prisoners get mistreated or even run the prison themselves. In the latter case that means the strong feed off the weak and the more serious criminals are likely running the place.

I would argue that some inmates don't want to leave prison. Sometimes it's because it's what they are used to and what they've grown up in. People often call it "being institutionalized". Some of course were sent to prison when the roads were much quieter and there was only a few cars around and the world being as it is right now with qualifications are needed for pretty much everything you can understand that they may not want to come into a society which they aren't used too and will get shunned because they have a criminal record. It's quite well documented that prisoners that have been released prison commit a crime just to get back in because they can't fit in. This was shown on Shawshank redemption. It may only be a movie but it takes it's influence from real life stories and if I recall it was based on a true story.

[blazingcherub]

This discussion reminds me the story if Russian serial killer Andrey Chikatilo who murdered more then fifty people. Before ho got caught there were two different men who were consiquently convicted and executed for his crimes. Are they not victims of social Killing Machine? In terms of victims' and murderers' rights who will be executed for murdering them?

I have a question for those who stand for capital punishment. If it  was your relative or close friend woh was falsely accused of some severe crime, convicted and executed? Will you still hold on to your opinion in that case? Many of those who are against capital punishment do so because of unfairly destroyed lives of innocent victims of failed (for any reason) justice. IMO, it is better to save life of hundred murderers than to execute one innocent person.

[paulmaritz]

Moral of the Story: If you want free meals and accommodation in Babylon, just murder someone - even if it is a close friend or relative. They won't kill you for such hideous crime, because they are too scared that you might be innocent. Alternatively, don't murder someone and slave away for meals and accommodation for most of your life. In fact, don't murder someone and you will foot the bill in terms of meals and accommodation (and some more) for those who have the balls to murder. What is not to love of a system that upholds the right to murder.

[o_e_l_e_o]

Moral of the Story: If you want free meals and accommodation in Babylon, just murder someone - even if it is a close friend or relative. They won't kill you for such hideous crime, because they are too scared that you might be innocent. Alternatively, don't murder someone and slave away for meals and accommodation for most of your life. In fact, don't murder someone and you will foot the bill in terms of meals and accommodation (and some more) for those who have the balls to murder. What is not to love of a system that upholds the right to murder.

I merited one of your previous posts, not because I agreed with what you said, but because you put forward a level-headed and well reasoned argument. And now you have completely ruined it by saying something as ridiculous as not having the death penalty is equivalent to giving citizens the right to murder. Sigh.

[paulmaritz]

Moral of the Story: If you want free meals and accommodation in Babylon, just murder someone - even if it is a close friend or relative. They won't kill you for such hideous crime, because they are too scared that you might be innocent. Alternatively, don't murder someone and slave away for meals and accommodation for most of your life. In fact, don't murder someone and you will foot the bill in terms of meals and accommodation (and some more) for those who have the balls to murder. What is not to love of a system that upholds the right to murder.

I merited one of your previous posts, not because I agreed with what you said, but because you put forward a level-headed and well reasoned argument. And now you have completely ruined it by saying something as ridiculous as not having the death penalty is equivalent to giving citizens the right to murder. Sigh.

Thank you for the merit received. Much appreciated.

In terms of my previous post, I've tried to give a tongue-in-cheek response while bringing over the point of view that others out there might have - people that are not as kind as some of us. You might think that I don't know what I am talking about, but I've spoken to hardened criminals in the past. They find a soft approach hilarious and stupid to say the least - and love playing the system to their benefit and at an expense to others.

Many hardened criminals have received life sentences - a ticket to free meals, free accommodation and the opportunity to murder again. In addition, there is no easy life in prison for someone who is not willing to join a prison gang. You either join them, get constantly raped or murdered. Regardless of why you are in prison, they will expect of you to murder - and if you refuse - they will murder you. E.g. this guy was convicted of murder at age 14 and received a 9 year prison sentence. He was exposed to murderers in prison and look at the result: https://youtu.be/vLkRA2pdBdE

Given reality - and not what is sold as an ideal system and/or pie in the sky - people who end up in prison for lesser offences have little chance of rehabilitation while murderers are around. They learn to become hardened criminals and many turn out murderers themselves. E.g. https://youtu.be/YsUs3tL_I0k

This is why I've stated previously in this thread: "The question we should rather ask ourselves is: "How many convicted murderers reoffend?"" And I could add: "How many convicted murderers help to turn others into murderers?"

In addition, show me a list of murderers who have truly benefited from prison sentences and added something of value to society?

[blazingcherub]

This is why I've stated previously in this thread: "The question we should rather ask ourselves is: "How many convicted murderers reoffend?"" And I could add: "How many convicted murderers help to turn others into murderers?"

In addition, show me a list of murderers who have truly benefited from prison sentences and added something of value to society?

Could you tell what will be your reaction if your close friend or relative will be falsely convicted of murder and executed?

[paulmaritz]

This is why I've stated previously in this thread: "The question we should rather ask ourselves is: "How many convicted murderers reoffend?"" And I could add: "How many convicted murderers help to turn others into murderers?"

In addition, show me a list of murderers who have truly benefited from prison sentences and added something of value to society?

Could you tell what will be your reaction if your close friend or relative will be falsely convicted of murder and executed?

I would absolutely love it and start a campaign to say that murderers should not receive capital punishment, only the innocent.

[Quickfant]

This is why I've stated previously in this thread: "The question we should rather ask ourselves is: "How many convicted murderers reoffend?"" And I could add: "How many convicted murderers help to turn others into murderers?"

In addition, show me a list of murderers who have truly benefited from prison sentences and added something of value to society?

It doesn't matter if they re offend or not. It  doesn't change the fact that they've murdered at least one person which is justifiable to spend the rest of their life in prison. I'm against the idea of capital punishment and can't believe that some countries still use it when it's been proven to not work. It doesn't act as a deterrent because people are still murdering others and it doesn't always bring justice because innocents have been killed.

If you kill someone premeditated then you should spend the rest of your life in prison. If you killed someone by self defense then many factors would have to be taken into consideration. Just because you killed someone that entered your house without your permission and was waving a weapon around doesn't mean you have to kill them. If it's a baseball bat for instance then he not likely to kill you with it and you wouldn't have to use lethal force either. It almost all self defense cases there was a better option.

[o_e_l_e_o]

It doesn't matter if they re offend or not. It  doesn't change the fact that they've murdered at least one person which is justifiable to spend the rest of their life in prison. I'm against the idea of capital punishment and can't believe that some countries still use it when it's been proven to not work. It doesn't act as a deterrent because people are still murdering others and it doesn't always bring justice because innocents have been killed.

If you kill someone premeditated then you should spend the rest of your life in prison. If you killed someone by self defense then many factors would have to be taken into consideration.

Completely agree with you to here.

Just because you killed someone that entered your house without your permission and was waving a weapon around doesn't mean you have to kill them. If it's a baseball bat for instance then he not likely to kill you with it and you wouldn't have to use lethal force either. It almost all self defense cases there was a better option

Completely disagree with you here.

You can kill someone with a single punch. You sure as hell can kill someone with one swing of a baseball bat. If a baseball wielding lunatic breaks in to my house, the safety of my family comes first and I should be allowed to use whatever means necessary to protect them. If that requires lethal force, then so be it.

[Quickfant]

Completely disagree with you here.

You can kill someone with a single punch. You sure as hell can kill someone with one swing of a baseball bat. If a baseball wielding lunatic breaks in to my house, the safety of my family comes first and I should be allowed to use whatever means necessary to protect them. If that requires lethal force, then so be it.

A baseball bat can kill if it connects. Although within a small space it's very hard to swing and guess what a baseball bat takes time to leverage back and swing. It's slow in other words and within the time they are swinging you can tackle them and disarm them. Police are taught this technique and a baseball bat is considered low danger because of this. A gun on the other hand doesn't take much movement to actually do the damage. A knife takes a little bit more movement than a gun but is much less than a baseball bat. Knives are a different situation although if you are trained you can disarm a knife wielding lunatic as the police do every day.

Killing someone even in self defense should be the last resort. Close combat which the majority of houses are a baseball bat is completely useless. Yes it can hurt if they jab you with it but its not going to kill you want way. they would need to swing back and then generate the force which also takes a split second.

A sword/katana or something like that would be a little different as you can't really tackle them and it's harder to disarm. But the majority of people invading someones house is looking to steal something and sometimes it's not worth the risk. If they want a tv give them a tv. It's better than killing someone and living with it for the rest of your life.

[o_e_l_e_o]

A baseball bat can kill if it connects. Although within a small space it's very hard to swing and guess what a baseball bat takes time to leverage back and swing. It's slow in other words and within the time they are swinging you can tackle them and disarm them. Police are taught this technique and a baseball bat is considered low danger because of this.

What if they are 6'6" and weigh 300 pounds and are swinging at me with a baseball bat? What if they are attacking a 5'0" female who weighs 100 pounds? Are you saying the victim is allowed to try to tackle them, but isn't allowed to stab or shoot them? So if the attacker is bigger than you, you just accept that you are getting beaten up or killed?

But the majority of people invading someones house is looking to steal something and sometimes it's not worth the risk. If they want a tv give them a tv. It's better than killing someone and living with it for the rest of your life.

If someone breaks in to my house armed with a deadly weapon, I don't care what they want and I suspect they wouldn't be interested in having a conversation about it. They are putting the lives of my family at risk and I would retaliate as necessary to attempt to stop them. Thankfully, in the country I live in, the law would be on my side.

[paulmaritz]

This is why I've stated previously in this thread: "The question we should rather ask ourselves is: "How many convicted murderers reoffend?"" And I could add: "How many convicted murderers help to turn others into murderers?"

In addition, show me a list of murderers who have truly benefited from prison sentences and added something of value to society?

It doesn't matter if they re offend or not. It  doesn't change the fact that they've murdered at least one person which is justifiable to spend the rest of their life in prison. I'm against the idea of capital punishment and can't believe that some countries still use it when it's been proven to not work. It doesn't act as a deterrent because people are still murdering others and it doesn't always bring justice because innocents have been killed.

If you kill someone premeditated then you should spend the rest of your life in prison. If you killed someone by self defense then many factors would have to be taken into consideration. Just because you killed someone that entered your house without your permission and was waving a weapon around doesn't mean you have to kill them. If it's a baseball bat for instance then he not likely to kill you with it and you wouldn't have to use lethal force either. It almost all self defense cases there was a better option.

"It doesn't matter if they re offend or not" - Really? You don't care how many innocent people get killed? In addition, sending murderers to prison leaves a breeding ground for more murderers and murders (as I've explained above). Furthermore, I don't know why you bring this into the equation: "If you kill someone premeditated then you should spend the rest of your life in prison. If you killed someone by self defense then many factors would have to be taken into consideration. Just because you killed someone that entered your house without your permission and was waving a weapon around doesn't mean you have to kill them. If it's a baseball bat for instance then he not likely to kill you with it and you wouldn't have to use lethal force either. It almost all self defense cases there was a better option", I am not the one having trouble to differentiate between murder and a justified killing.

In addition, capital punishment does serve as a deterrent to at least some level despite the skewed manner in which statistics are abused in this regard. Marxists always need a general crime wave in order to wage war against their enemies. They are too cowardly to declare it openly and fight like men.

Again, "show me a list of murderers who have truly benefited from prison sentences and added something of value to society?"

[easemypain]

This issue of Capital Punishment as defined by the Wikipedia "as a government-sanctioned practice whereby a person is put to death by the state as a punishment for a crime".
In this world we live in people will always commit crimes. But in my own views, some Law just needs to be established.
Firstly, It is not a yardstick that when people commit crimes and are punished by death sentence it will serve as a deterrent to others, no it doesn't work that way.
I have come to realise in life that no matter the set downs rules and regulations people will always violate, it is a constant in life.

Secondly, it doesn't mean people should not be punished by death sentence or whichever way.
in human existence, crime will always exist, and punishment will always exist but punishment cannot abolish crimes.
But the best solutions to all these is "Moral upbringing" a standard training that should be inculcated as an inherent characteristic in every individual, with that it will help the society at large.

[paulmaritz]

This issue of Capital Punishment as defined by the Wikipedia "as a government-sanctioned practice whereby a person is put to death by the state as a punishment for a crime".
In this world we live in people will always commit crimes. But in my own views, some Law just needs to be established.
Firstly, It is not a yardstick that when people commit crimes and are punished by death sentence it will serve as a deterrent to others, no it doesn't work that way.
I have come to realise in life that no matter the set downs rules and regulations people will always violate, it is a constant in life.

Secondly, it doesn't mean people should not be punished by death sentence or whichever way.
in human existence, crime will always exist, and punishment will always exist but punishment cannot abolish crimes.
But the best solutions to all these is "Moral upbringing" a standard training that should be inculcated as an inherent characteristic in every individual, with that it will help the society at large.

And in the many instances where "Moral upbringing" fails, should the parents be put to death? If not, how is that going to effectively address the murder rate, especially considering the many morally bankrupt regimes around the world?

[TrumpD]

I think capital punishment should be applied when it comes to the position of a life-for-a-life(lives). In the sense that when someone is sentenced to death for committing a crime for deliberately taking a life out of sheer purpose for example, a serial murderer (there are some instances whereby the it was not all very blatantly deliberate), that same person should be put to the sword as well. Now what is the alternative reform, imprisonment? Who pays for these reforms and imprisonment, everyday regular tax payers money. I don't think is fair to the hardworking tax payer to "help" reform a person who deliberately took someones life. Aside murder, I don't see any other crime out there that warrants capital punishment. Just my opinion.

[AverageGlabella]

I think capital punishment should be applied when it comes to the position of a life-for-a-life(lives). In the sense that when someone is sentenced to death for committing a crime for deliberately taking a life out of sheer purpose for example, a serial murderer (there are some instances whereby the it was not all very blatantly deliberate), that same person should be put to the sword as well. Now what is the alternative reform, imprisonment? Who pays for these reforms and imprisonment, everyday regular tax payers money. I don't think is fair to the hardworking tax payer to "help" reform a person who deliberately took someones life. Aside murder, I don't see any other crime out there that warrants capital punishment. Just my opinion.

By this statement you actually think murder is the worst possible crime you could commit. Now when you say murder is this murder in self defense included?

I find in these sort of debates it's always the serial killer which has been proven guilty multiple times is the only way that capital punishment could be taken without there being any doubt about whether new evidence will arise. Although I wouldn't put it past our law system.

[theyoungmillionaire]

-snip-

My opinion is Mixed.

I recognize that the state has the authority to administer the death penalty. I have no problem with this, “in principal”. However, it is poorly administered and does not perform it’s function well if at all.

It is also vastly expensive as presently conducted.

I recognize that there are seriously bad people who will remain a danger to society for all their lives. Incarcerating them in inhuman conditions (like the “Supermax” prison) for life seems far more inhumane than execution.

At the same time, I recognize that many of these really bad people are insane, and that this mitigates to some degree their level of responsibility. Unfortunately, we have no reliable way to treat such people at this time.

The death penalty is inequitably administered. Everyone knows this. If you are poor and/or a minority, you are vastly more likely to be given “death” than if you are wealthy/white.

That’s unacceptable.

Additionally, programs like “the innocence project” have proved that many people presently on death row were in fact innocent and had been improperly convicted, either by incompetent representation, faulty evidence, jury bias, or prosecutorial malfeasance. (withholding exculpatory evidence, not putting contrary witnesses on the stand…)

That’s horrifying.

Our state just executed a fellow who had been on death row for 30 years. 30 years… Waiting to be executed.

Finally, the stated purpose of the death penalty is deterrence. That the prospect of being exeted will deter people from committing serious crimes. It doesn’t. Death-penalty crimes are committed either in a state of rage, or under the influence of psychosis, or due to long-standing pschological or psychiatric conditions.

There has not been any evidence shown (to my knowledge) that the death penalty provides any such deterrance. Instead, what it provides is vengeance. “Closure” as we so euphemistically say these days.

You "Copy & paste" without citing a source. It was a reply from Mark Werner, Police officer for 45 years. Link here: https://www.quora.com/What-are-your-thoughts-on-capital-punishment

[Temitope]

I don't see anything good in capital punishment, it rather lead to Arden criminal. Capita punishment does not teach any positive behavior it rather serve as a preparation for committing higher crime

[blazingcherub]

My opinion is Mixed.

I recognize that the state has the authority to administer the death penalty. I have no problem with this, “in principal”. However, it is poorly administered and does not perform it’s function well if at all.The death penalty is inequitably administered. Everyone knows this. If you are poor and/or a minority, you are vastly more likely to be given “death” than if you are wealthy/white.

That’s unacceptable.

Additionally, programs like “the innocence project” have proved that many people presently on death row were in fact innocent and had been improperly convicted, either by incompetent representation, faulty evidence, jury bias, or prosecutorial malfeasance. (withholding exculpatory evidence, not putting contrary witnesses on the stand…)

That’s horrifying.

There is nothing to add to this. If there was 100% justice in courts I would gladly support capital punishment for murderers. But people (incl. judges, jury, police et c.) are often corrupt and greedy and making mistakes and neglecting their duties so there is no small chance to execute innocent person. In such case (in terms of revenge which is the reason why caspital punishment supportes are so agressively defending it) there should be also capital punishment for judges, police officers and prosecutors who have convicted innocent person and for lawyer who didn't do his best to defend his client if it was proved later that executed person was innocent. Or, maybe just make execution of innocent person equal with first-degree murder with appropriate punishment for those involved in it. That would be fair.

Otherwise it looks like:

- Robber broke in to a house and killed the old lady living there
- Execute him!

- Jury sent innocent father of three to electric chair
- They have to say "I'm sorry"