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Poll
Question: do you think pool hopping is ethical?
YES - 39 (66.1%)
NO - 20 (33.9%)
Total Voters: 59

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Author Topic: seriously. its closed. move on.  (Read 12676 times)
macboy80
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August 23, 2011, 10:01:04 PM
 #221

...
In my opinion new pools should be eligus-style. No registration, no wasting user's time for passwords and pins. Just fast to start and simple. No antihopper measures until pool can afford to no longer care about few hundred additional ghash boost at every round.

+1
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deepceleron
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August 23, 2011, 10:09:26 PM
 #222

if everyone moved all the mining power they have over and get this block killed it has to be almost dead we are almost at 2.2 mil shares
That's not the way Bitcoin statistics work. Either you find a block or you don't - there is no 'work' done that gets you any closer to solving a block. You still have the same 50% chance of finding a block in another 1.88m shares (the difficulty) as you did when you started the round. If the current round was 10 million shares, I'd be predicting a block find at 11.88 million.

That's also why there is no reason for the literate to be mad at any payment scheme a pool has decided on; any reward system for hash submissions to a pool is arbitrary, because the only one that actually did any work is the person who found the block, everyone else did nothing, and gets a reward for just trying. When you solo mine, any hashing you did in the past that doesn't solve a block immediately "decays" and you don't get rewarded for it. Pool payment systems also decay or discard the consideration of old submissions by miners, just less so, whether it be after a block is found, after a certain number of shares or amount of time, or using a formula. For the illiterate - well, they get mad irrationally because they can't accept blaming themselves.

Also, there is no reason to feel guilt shutting down a pool mid round - nobody found a block, so nobody gets paid. That's as simple as it gets.

Rfcpool.com just re-opened.  I'm headed back there.

really? with N=0.5? good luck making any coin
LOLWUT? Is that the new plan, disinformation, claiming people won't get paid on pools that switched to a hop-proof system? You are acting like your mommy put the candy bar back on the shelf and slapped your hand.

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August 23, 2011, 10:18:35 PM
 #223

i agree with you 100% on everything. I think I have spent too much time trying to appease unreasonable people.

thank you for bringing a note of clarity.
jpinconline
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August 23, 2011, 10:51:45 PM
 #224

You have been good to me throughout everything... it is sad that the pool is going to have 2 close, but i understand. As soon as it cools down this evening (currently 87F in my room) im gonna fire up my extra miner and point my 1500 mhash till this block is found. Best of luck to you in the future.  Sad

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Caesium
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August 23, 2011, 11:13:14 PM
 #225

Rfcpool.com just re-opened.  I'm headed back there.

really? with N=0.5? good luck making any coin

Yeah N is still up for discussion and tweaking. Might actually go PPLNH instead with an H of 48 hours. But offtopic for here.

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August 24, 2011, 12:51:16 AM
 #226

I think the general concept of this pool being "the Bitcoin Mining Pool designed BY Miners and FOR Miners" wasn't really compatible with the non-transparent scoring system. Of course any pool advertised as proportional is going to attract pool-hoppers and put off serious (non-pool-hopping) miners. Note that I'm not saying this advertising was necessarily intended by the pool itself, but was the resulting message received by the community.

Thanks for your efforts for running the pool though - I've appreciated the care you've taken to respond to each persons concerns in the forum, which is refreshing.
Sukrim
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August 24, 2011, 01:46:13 AM
 #227

The payment system we use is the same we have always used dude, please read the first page in this thread, I have not changed it since this whole thing happend - and I am sorry it happened like this - but everyone has to realize it is not our fault that some careless person assumed we were a pool hop friendly pool and started posting everywhere that you can pool hop on our pool. They should of dug a little deeper, we have miners who have had decaying shares all the way back on the first block which was solved 6 days ago. This is no secret my friend.

On your actual website there is 0 mentioning of which payout algorithm you use and the stuff about "custom proportional" also seems new to me. This is just another example that noone should trust some small pools that claim to have found some "fix" to proportional of who do NOT tell you straight away how your payments are going to be calculated.

On the first page in this thread is also written by the way: "We believe in transparency and honesty"...

Sorry that it ended like this, but at least it is over now. Whoever still mines here (100% difficulty has already been reached - you're loosing money!) can't be helped anyways. My recommendation would be to just leave the pool and see it as a warning whom to entrust with all your bitcoin earnings!

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hawks5999
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August 24, 2011, 06:09:02 AM
 #228

Rfcpool.com just re-opened.  I'm headed back there.

really? with N=0.5? good luck making any coin
LOLWUT? Is that the new plan, disinformation, claiming people won't get paid on pools that switched to a hop-proof system? You are acting like your mommy put the candy bar back on the shelf and slapped your hand.

And you are just acting like the insufferable you that you are. My point is that N=0.5 means that only 24/7, no downtime miners will be able to make a decent rate. And the idea that you'd ever get paid double on N=0.5 is minute. Only on very short rounds would PPLNS with N=0.5 ever make miners any good coin. And very short rounds already payout good with less convoluted systems (apart from PPS).

And BMU is hardly a candy bar getting put back on the shelf. 2 blocks solved ever... 20% stales... hashrate < 5 Gh/s... slow website... IP only accessible site for most its lifespan...
Really, there was never much to love and there is even less that will be missed here.

Seriously, BMU, cut your losses, spare the arithmetically challenged who are still mining you and turn everything off already. Your existence makes BitCoin weaker.

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jkminkov
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August 24, 2011, 06:39:38 AM
 #229

That's also why there is no reason for the literate to be mad at any payment scheme a pool has decided on; any reward system for hash submissions to a pool is arbitrary,
 because the only one that actually did any work is the person who found the block, everyone else did nothing, and gets a reward for just trying.

payment scheme NO ONE WAS AWARE OF, it's the same situation with tripplemining mob award, but no one knowing it is for 10 block in 3 hours!

I hope you do not make such claims when you participate in some kind of pooled buying of lottery tickets, cause it will make your ass kicked hard!

Bleutrade
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iopq
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August 24, 2011, 02:28:33 PM
 #230

Rfcpool.com just re-opened.  I'm headed back there.

really? with N=0.5? good luck making any coin
LOLWUT? Is that the new plan, disinformation, claiming people won't get paid on pools that switched to a hop-proof system? You are acting like your mommy put the candy bar back on the shelf and slapped your hand.

And you are just acting like the insufferable you that you are. My point is that N=0.5 means that only 24/7, no downtime miners will be able to make a decent rate. And the idea that you'd ever get paid double on N=0.5 is minute
you always get paid double or nothing (or quadruple on short rounds)

bitcoindaddy
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August 24, 2011, 06:21:06 PM
 #231

This is your pool, you can do what you want with it of course, including closing it, however....

to change the payout calculation in the middle of a round, or to withhold payments in the middle of the round without disclosing these policies at the BEGINNING of the round is unethical at best or illegal at worst. I hope the feds never take an interest in you.
Jack of Diamonds
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August 29, 2011, 05:54:33 PM
 #232

This is your pool, you can do what you want with it of course, including closing it, however....

to change the payout calculation in the middle of a round, or to withhold payments in the middle of the round without disclosing these policies at the BEGINNING of the round is unethical at best or illegal at worst.
I hope the feds never take an interest in you.

Feds don't usually care about fraud cases not in the 5 digits or more. 1 block would be ~400 bucks at current prices.
Plus I think they never found the last round so nothing was actually withheld.

Miners chose to be in a prop. pool which only pays upon finding blocks. Hence no fraud occurred; No block was apparently found (though he did change the reward method during this round)

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jkminkov
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August 30, 2011, 09:28:27 AM
 #233

changing terms of a contract w/o short notice is a fraud

Bleutrade
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August 30, 2011, 08:23:16 PM
 #234

please. The pool didnt work out. Can you just move on please?

and just to put the facts straight - we never changed any payment method EVER.
since day one we had a traditional proportional payout method with a decaying share modification to prevent pool hopping.
We always stated that we had a mechanism to protect against pool hopping - we never gave specifics, but if you mined with us and pool hopped obviously you found out what happened right?

Was it right, or wrong? or smart or dumb? Well who knows and who cares obviously we did something wrong because the pool failed to succeed. I have moved on. Now cant you do the same thing?

and I am not even going to begin to discuss how absolutely preposterous it is to claim that because you signed up for an account with a pool you have some kind of contact.

from a Legal stand point a pool operator could have you mine 100 blocks for him and he could keep all the coins for himself and there would be absolutely no legal recourse you would have at all.

I am sorry so many people are unhappy. I tried to the best of my ability to make this work. It didn't work. now move on.
Litt
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September 04, 2011, 06:43:10 PM
 #235

please. The pool didnt work out. Can you just move on please?

and just to put the facts straight - we never changed any payment method EVER.
since day one we had a traditional proportional payout method with a decaying share modification to prevent pool hopping.
We always stated that we had a mechanism to protect against pool hopping - we never gave specifics, but if you mined with us and pool hopped obviously you found out what happened right?

Was it right, or wrong? or smart or dumb? Well who knows and who cares obviously we did something wrong because the pool failed to succeed. I have moved on. Now cant you do the same thing?

and I am not even going to begin to discuss how absolutely preposterous it is to claim that because you signed up for an account with a pool you have some kind of contact.

from a Legal stand point a pool operator could have you mine 100 blocks for him and he could keep all the coins for himself and there would be absolutely no legal recourse you would have at all.

I am sorry so many people are unhappy. I tried to the best of my ability to make this work. It didn't work. now move on.



Shut up and go away already
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September 04, 2011, 07:07:13 PM
 #236

its already gone. Your the one who is still here. Smiley
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