Merit requirement for jr.member

[Ginzink]

Hi,

I thought merit would help with the spam but i still see as much crap from newbies as before.
Took a look at marketplace and found out why! Jr. member accounts are being sold as well. And for third world the sum is probably quite decent.

Maybe Theymos was to kind, and there should be 5 merit as requirement for jr.member.

If you cant earn any merit your probably should not even be jr. member. It is hard to get merit, but 5 merit should be possible for most people over time.
Unless they only post meaningless shitposts and in bounty threads off course but cant say i feel sorry for thoose 

[Talk merit]

I don't agree. New members need to find their feet in order to earn merit. An upgrade to junior member without requiring merit provides encouragement whilst they learn the community standards at Bitcoin Talk. Restriction on the boards they can use would be far more useful than introducing a merit requirement for them.

Unfortunately many new members take their example from Mother Nature. They spray their barren seeds in as many places as they can, and they hope that one or two will bear fruit. We need to help them to learn that they will get far better results by planting their healthy posts in fertile threads. Moderators can play a part in this by ensuring that the threads remain healthy.

[Ginzink]

I don't agree. New members need to find their feet in order to earn merit. An upgrade to junior member without requiring merit provides encouragement whilst they learn the community standards at Bitcoin Talk. Restriction on the boards they can use would be far more useful than introducing a merit requirement for them.

Unfortunately many new members take their example from Mother Nature. They spray their barren seeds in as many places as they can, and they hope that one or two will bear fruit. We need to help them to learn that they will get far better results by planting their healthy posts in fertile threads. Moderators can play a part in this by ensuring that the threads remain healthy.

I dont see the logic there. Restricting boards means they cant use the forum as they may want to until earning 10 merit which can take a long time.
Not gaining rank just means you will not get any bounties. Bounties are a biproduct not the reason bitcointalk was founded.

And i see you got 10 merit already, and that was for good posts. I would not care about the rank on thoose posts just the quality. So restricting rank up with merits is still what i see as the best way to stop the spam.

[Talk merit]

If we leave aside buying, alt exchanges, and nepotism, which are methods discouraged by the community, and likely to result in penalties such as negative trust, There are two ways that members use to gain merit. One is to fill the boards with low value posts in the hope that one or two will generate merit, and it is those posters that need to be contained. The other method is to contribute to the forum, and make reasoned posts that have value to the community, and it is these posters that we need to encourage. Restricting the main boards, and having areas for new members to demonstrate their abilities and willingness to contribute to the forum, reduces the impact of the bad posters, and provides a welcoming path for the valuable new members.

btw - Asking intelligent questions is a good contribution to the forum, but only if they haven't been answered many times in other threads.

[botany]

Hi,

I thought merit would help with the spam but i still see as much crap from newbies as before.
Took a look at marketplace and found out why! Jr. member accounts are being sold as well. And for third world the sum is probably quite decent.

Maybe Theymos was to kind, and there should be 5 merit as requirement for jr.member.

If you cant earn any merit your probably should not even be jr. member. It is hard to get merit, but 5 merit should be possible for most people over time.
Unless they only post meaningless shitposts and in bounty threads off course but cant say i feel sorry for thoose 

I would be supportive of even a requirement of a single merit to become a junior member. The reason is that low quality posts from accounts with 30+ activity are not actioned by patrollers when reported. If there is a merit requirement to become a junior member, these accounts can be nuked even if they come under the radar at a later point in time.

[Jet Cash]

And i see you got 10 merit already, and that was for good posts. I would not care about the rank on thoose posts just the quality. So restricting rank up with merits is still what i see as the best way to stop the spam.

That was a bit of a surprise, as I didn't expect to get any merit for that alt. The upgrade to member will be useful though, as it will allow me to include links in the signature.

[Ginzink]

btw - Asking intelligent questions is a good contribution to the forum, but only if they haven't been answered many times in other threads.

I dont hang too much on the Meta but tried to see if this was brought up before as a suggestion.

When i think back from the time i joined bitcointalk, having a requirement of merit to rank up would feel more welcoming than saying im not worthy to post everywhere.
A newbie member could have watched the forum for a long time before joining and have the competence to write in all sections. That is more important to protect than being able to partake in bounties in my opinion.

And something still needs to be done to get rid of all the shitposters. And if we only got the one liners from this then it would still be a huge improvement.
One liners are mostly made by bots and others farming activity, not merit.

As botany pointed out maybe 5 is too high. I trust Theymos in the amount, i just want something done.

Saying ranks dont matter just hit me in the face though. Cause when you said it is your alt Jet Cash i suddenly felt more humble to your opinion. But may also be because i recognized the nick, and know your a member helping the forum more than i ever could.
Still dont agree though  

[Harlot]

Hi,

I thought merit would help with the spam but i still see as much crap from newbies as before.
Took a look at marketplace and found out why! Jr. member accounts are being sold as well. And for third world the sum is probably quite decent.

Here we go on blaming the third world countries again. Do you have any proof that the ones buying the accounts are from a third world country? Because you are saying that they are "quite decent"? Also nobody told us that the improvements in the forum in terms of reducing spam and shot post will be instant. This people who recently joined or still is in a low rank account still has time to improve their writing skills. We cannot expect them to adjust quickly on the new merit system right away.

[Jet Cash]

Saying ranks dont matter just hit me in the face though. Cause when you said it is your alt Jet Cash i suddenly felt more humble to your opinion.
Still dont agree though 

Don't feel humble. I'm politically incorrect, and most people seem to disagree with me all the time.

I don't think I said that ranks don't matter. I think they are a way for the forum to say thank you for supporting the boards, and that we value your opinion. Rank probably doesn't matter for Talk Merit, as that is just supposed to get me away from discussing merit. Also it is not really a normal signup. Going from brand new to Junior member in 14 days is probably not usual. The sad thing really is that it was done by talking about merit, and it may be another indication that a merit board would be a useful addition here.

[Jet Cash]

Here we go on blaming the third world countries again. Do you have any proof that the ones buying the accounts are from a third world country? Because you are saying that they are "quite decent"? Also nobody told us that the improvements in the forum in terms of reducing spam and shot post will be instant. This people who recently joined or still is in a low rank account still has time to improve their writing skills. We cannot expect them to adjust quickly on the new merit system right away.

I gave you a merit for that post because I agree with the sentiment behind it. However, Ginzink makes a valid point. Many of the anti-merit posts and threads are from 3rd world posters who state specifically that merit is taking away their income via the forum, and they seem to feel that they have a right to it. They also state that the meagre bonuses they can earn make a significant difference to their lifestyle.

Bitcoin use is important in 3rd world countries, and we need representatives from their communities. However, that doesn't mean that we have to accept their begging, or their demands for the right to be paid for polluting the boards. I've tried a number of things to help them to improve their posting skills, and to become valable members of Bitcoin Talk, but very few bother to make any effortsto improve themselves. My latest effort is Fit to Talk English , but only one person has bothered to sign up. I hoped that by removing the risk of attack and accusations of sh*t posting in this forum, I could help people to improve their posting. However, nobody can help them, if they don't want to help themselves.

[Lunarics]

That was a bit of a surprise, as I didn't expect to get any merit for that alt. The upgrade to member will be useful though, as it will allow me to include links in the signature.

You needed to create your alt anonymously, and provide your result after achieving N merit. Your name is known and your alt puts what they know is you and it turns out this is an incorrect experiment

Fit to Talk English

I have proposed the idea that the newbie was train and took a test and then began to write on the forum. I myself started with hunting bounty but then I left it now basically read the forum

[Ginzink]

Hi,

I thought merit would help with the spam but i still see as much crap from newbies as before.
Took a look at marketplace and found out why! Jr. member accounts are being sold as well. And for third world the sum is probably quite decent.

Here we go on blaming the third world countries again. Do you have any proof that the ones buying the accounts are from a third world country? Because you are saying that they are "quite decent"? Also nobody told us that the improvements in the forum in terms of reducing spam and shot post will be instant. This people who recently joined or still is in a low rank account still has time to improve their writing skills. We cannot expect them to adjust quickly on the new merit system right away.

You got me there, as i have no proof of it being third world. It is indeed more a suspicion, which i got from other members and then agreed with.

As for proof it is worth something:

Jr Member - 50+ Activity

No loans
No bans
No SMAS
Neutral Trust
No Entered Address

20 $

And 20 dollar would not be worth the work even with bots for richer countries unless they sold a very high volume.
When you look at average monthly incom on poorer countries however even one account a month is quite substansial!
Madagasker (33 USD), Congo (36 USD), Afghanistan (48 USD), Ethiopia (55 USD) and Nepal (61 USD) is just some examples. (Taken from worlddata.)

[botany]

And 20 dollar would not be worth the work even with bots for richer countries unless they sold a very high volume.
When you look at average monthly incom on poorer countries however even one account a month is quite substansial!
Madagasker (33 USD), Congo (36 USD), Afghanistan (48 USD), Ethiopia (55 USD) and Nepal (61 USD) is just some examples. (Taken from worlddata.)

People who create accounts on bitcointalk and rank up have basic computer literacy, access to a computer/smartphone and the internet. This would put them in the very top of the population of third world countries. Their time could definitely be put to better use.

[KeithBeeCham]

As I can see, Merit cheater often create topic to complain or give new suggestion to other member about Merit system and you're not an exception .

As I can see you and hua_hui sent Merit to each other:



You and hua_hui are being in the same bounty campaign and hua_hui is also manager of this campaign.

But the strange thing is you are just a Full Member but you received payrate as a Sr. Member.



But the most important thing is you and hua_hui received ETH from the same ETH address: 0x2B5634C42055806a59e9107ED44D43c426E58258

It seem like a address of any crypto exchange so you and hua_hui are using the same exchange account???

Ginzink is using: 0x8524e34e4740BbEac65b218b04294C2263096EB9
hua_hui is using: 0x9B7B46e87708ab66ab917129FC109b5F9EA313f0

https://etherscan.io/tx/0x8f48c65d45a0a1467a74283eb46b06bfe25ce3eec5d1361d618afe98ffecfd7f
https://etherscan.io/tx/0x04a3980184a1515352b68317c6a59ef174c1edd65496e99eefade88f45a87368

[zacxavier]

Hi,

I thought merit would help with the spam but i still see as much crap from newbies as before.
Took a look at marketplace and found out why! Jr. member accounts are being sold as well. And for third world the sum is probably quite decent.

Maybe Theymos was to kind, and there should be 5 merit as requirement for jr.member.

If you cant earn any merit your probably should not even be jr. member. It is hard to get merit, but 5 merit should be possible for most people over time.
Unless they only post meaningless shitposts and in bounty threads off course but cant say i feel sorry for thoose 

Merit system is just like having a pretty face on facebook and getting like from it and If you didn't have that pretty face then no likes for you. Sometimes it's also for fame, or friendliness. I don't think that if you post high quality comments here you would get merited, it's just that you need some friends to send you merits or some people you could make fun of. It's not the quality, it's people on people.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

Here we go on blaming the third world countries again. Do you have any proof that the ones buying the accounts are from a third world country? Because you are saying that they are "quite decent"?

That's not really putting blame on anyone.  I've heard it from people in southeast Asia, right on this forum, that you can live off of sig campaign earnings, and live well.  I don't know how far $1 stretches over there, but I'm assuming in some of the poorer countries it can buy a hell of a lot more than it can in the US.  Please correct me if I'm wrong.

There was a thread a while ago, with the title something like "How many Cokes can 1BTC (or $1) buy?", I can't remember exactly but it was interesting.  And I would suggest that not only are people in poor countries desperate to get into these campaigns, most of the shitposting comes from--you guessed it!--countries where English is NOT the primary language.  So you might feel offended by people talking about 3rd world countries, but they're well-represented on bitcointalk and usually not in a good way.  It's not true in every case, of course, but I've seen "Philippines" in enough shitposters' profiles to know that Canada and the US and England are not the ones responsible for the spamming that goes on here.

[IsuruMaduranga]

As I can see, Merit cheater often create topic to complain or give new suggestion to other member about Merit system and you're not an exception .

I agree with you. But this person has not created any merit related posts before. Check the post history.

As I can see you and hua_hui sent Merit to each other:

Only 2 time in the very beginning of the merit system in the same thread. It is quite possible because many people played with the merits and gave merits generously those days.

You and hua_hui are being in the same bounty campaign and hua_hui is also manager of this campaign.

Is this a fair evidence???

But the strange thing is you are just a Full Member but you received payrate as a Sr. Member.

?? Maybe they are friends or working or managing the same bounty campaign.

But the most important thing is you and hua_hui received ETH from the same ETH address: 0x2B5634C42055806a59e9107ED44D43c426E58258

It seem like a address of any crypto exchange so you and hua_hui are using the same exchange account???

Ginzink is using: 0x8524e34e4740BbEac65b218b04294C2263096EB9
hua_hui is using: 0x9B7B46e87708ab66ab917129FC109b5F9EA313f0

https://etherscan.io/tx/0x8f48c65d45a0a1467a74283eb46b06bfe25ce3eec5d1361d618afe98ffecfd7f
https://etherscan.io/tx/0x04a3980184a1515352b68317c6a59ef174c1edd65496e99eefade88f45a87368

Two people can be received Eth from same address. This implies they know each other or working together.


What are you trying to say? This person is a merit hunter or other account you mentioned is the alt of this person???
Evidences are not enough and why did you report this here??? There is a separate thread for reporting merit abusers. (This person is not a merit abuser clearly.)
I really couldn't get what you tried to say.

[KeithBeeCham]

I agree with you. But this person has not created any merit related posts before. Check the post history.

Don't you think only 1 time is enough?

Only 2 time in the very beginning of the merit system in the same thread. It is quite possible because many people played with the merits and gave merits generously those days.

You should know that a lot of Merit cheater tagged with olny 1 cheating time )

You and hua_hui are being in the same bounty campaign and hua_hui is also manager of this campaign.

Is this a fair evidence???

This one is just an additional evidence to prove that they're abusing bounty campaign by alt account. The main evidence is that they received ETH from the same ETH address.

I think you should stop protecting for this guy cause hua_hui is already known as lorylore, namelessname, BlockFolksHQ. hua_hui is abusing bounty campaigns managed by himself and Fishcoin bounty campaign is an example.

I just don't understand why this bounty manager still don't get tagged by DT member or Mod.

[Flying Hellfish]

However, nobody can help them, if they don't want to help themselves.

You can lead a Unicorn to water but you can't make em drink it eh??   

[Ginzink]

I agree with you. But this person has not created any merit related posts before. Check the post history.

Don't you think only 1 time is enough?

Only 2 time in the very beginning of the merit system in the same thread. It is quite possible because many people played with the merits and gave merits generously those days.

You should know that a lot of Merit cheater tagged with olny 1 cheating time )

You and hua_hui are being in the same bounty campaign and hua_hui is also manager of this campaign.

Is this a fair evidence???

This one is just an additional evidence to prove that they're abusing bounty campaign by alt account. The main evidence is that they received ETH from the same ETH address.

I think you should stop protecting for this guy cause hua_hui is already known as lorylore, namelessname, BlockFolksHQ. hua_hui is abusing bounty campaigns managed by himself and Fishcoin bounty campaign is an example.

I just don't understand why this bounty manager still don't get tagged by DT member or Mod.

Wow that was something to come back to

About the 5 merit. I misunderstood and thought it would refresh every month so tested with 5 when i should have tested with 1.
However i am happy with how he manages the bounties so giving him some merit for it is still justified. What should be rewarded with merit is different from user to user. The multi account possibilty is not something i knew about before now.
I must say though, i dont care if the mulit account is true. As long as the posts made with alts are of good quality and not shitposts to reach the requirement. But i accept that not all see it the same way. Just like merit which i am a fan of but not alot of the new members.

Actualy i am not only in the same campaign now. This is the third campaign where i have followed him. First globcoin, then PolicyPal and now fishcoin. I will do you a favor and say already i got bonus on all three of them.
Globcoin extra was something the dev team told him directly. PAL and now fishcoin is because is put in alot more work than the common bounty hunter.
I only choose bounties where i believe in the product, and therefor have done some research and helps keep the community informed. Not strange that i follow someone who recognize me and have bounties where i like the product?

That both of us received ETH from the same address was interesting! Not sure how that happened, but the wallet does have 1017256 txns and i have only transfered ETH twice, both times from exchange directly.
I do talk to him on telegram and know he is not from my country so the IP adresses should prove we are not in the same location. However VPN could be used by people with multiple accounts so dont think it actualy could help

This was not really on topic but felt i had to reply. If you want to continiue the discussion and are not satisfied with my answers il gladly do so in another thread where it should be. Just PM me the link.

Also thank you for the support IsuruMaduranga. And i gotta say i like your personal text, almost the same!  

Edit: Checked some more transactions. It is from Kucoin, and you can see the same address sendt to other wallets which then sendt it to other exchanges. So that should end the discussion.