Ripple competition

[notme]

The main thing is if I trust Bitstamp to do my BTC business on it, I trust them to do my Ripple stuff. I don't care about philosophizing with tech terms and such bullshit who trust who, bla-bla-bla...

Bitcoin enthusiasts should be last in line to preach about security, trust and similar stuff with robberies and hacks happening daily in their industry.

I think that's pretty much going to be the view of Ripple as more infrastructure comes online.  Most people will never even know they are using Ripple and won't care that it is powered by Ripple.  Just like people use websites and don't know and don't care they are powered by Wordpress.  Or as has been repeated constantly, email and SMTP.  People don't care how it works, just that it does.  That's the beautiful thing about Ripple, it's a true protocol that can operate completely transparently. People know the weaknesses of Bitcoin and it scares them because just as Erik V. said, "the only thing that can kill Bitcoin, is a superior currency" and they worry that Ripple will provide that.  So fear, causes them to miss that which is amazing about Ripple as a payment network and distributed exchange and more importantly the benefits it provides to Bitcoin, by making up for many of it's weaknesses.  

It can operate transparently until someone with too much trust defaults.  If all the people who trusted them can't back up the defaulter's debts, said default will "ripple" and likely knock quite a few decent people off of the network.

[1714673561]

1714673561

[Come-from-Beyond]

What do you think about that?

Basically it said that Ripple is already welcomed by the financial industry and that it will receive a better greetings by governments than Bitcoin.

Yeah, I was always thinking that Ripple is centralized and thus easily controlled.

[Coinseeker]

It can operate transparently until someone with too much trust defaults.  If all the people who trusted them can't back up the defaulter's debts, said default will "ripple" and likely knock quite a few decent people off of the network.

What you've said is no different than any Bitcoin exchange, so I fail to see how this is a relevant point.  In fact, how many recent stories of Bitcoin defaults and disappearances do we have?  I see 2 right now on the front page of Coindesk.com.  And let's not forget Tradefortress, Mr. RippleScam himself, who turned out to be the scammer after all.  

I think many people's opposition to Ripple is they simply don't understand debt or IOU's.  They run to put money on exchanges and then bash Ripple.  They cheer at the mere thought of Paypal accepting Bitcoin but bash Ripple.  Ignorance at it's finest and that is understandable.  New financial tech that requires people take control of their own finances does need to come with a certain amount of education.  Maybe it's fairer to say, Ripple hasen't been the best at educating people beyond tech, but then the same also holds true for Bitcoin.

[Carlton Banks]

These Ripple advocates are relentless, they keep talking around the main stupid premise: you're trading obligations, not the real thing. And there's no point in them addressing this issue, because the whole system is based around it. The system is IOU based.

Complete
Waste
Of
Time

[notme]

It can operate transparently until someone with too much trust defaults.  If all the people who trusted them can't back up the defaulter's debts, said default will "ripple" and likely knock quite a few decent people off of the network.

What you've said is no different than any Bitcoin exchange, so I fail to see how this is a relevant point.  In fact, how many recent stories of Bitcoin defaults and disappearances do we have?  I see 2 right now on the front page of Coindesk.com.  And let's not forget Tradefortress, Mr. RippleScam himself, who turned out to be the scammer after all.  

I think many people's opposition to Ripple is they simply don't understand debt or IOU's.  They run to put money on exchanges and then bash Ripple.  They cheer at the mere thought of Paypal accepting Bitcoin but bash Ripple.  Ignorance at it's finest and that is understandable.  New financial tech that requires people take control of their own finances does need to come with a certain amount of education.  Maybe it's fairer to say, Ripple hasen't been the best at educating people beyond tech, but then the same also holds true for Bitcoin.

That's why I don't keep significant assets on exchanges or in third party wallets of any sort.  IOU != underlying asset and Ripple does its best to sweep that under the rug.  For bitcoin, being able to hold the underlying asset directly is one of the main selling points.

[BldSwtTrs]

These Ripple advocates are relentless, they keep talking around the main stupid premise: you're trading obligations, not the real thing. And there's no point in them addressing this issue, because the whole system is based around it. The system is IOU based.

Complete
Waste
Of
Time

What is the point of XRP then?

XRP is the only way RippleLabs will win money so they have to have an utility.

[BittBurger]

Ripple is a good "sucker" test.  If you think it's Ripple is a good idea and like it then I have a bridge in New York I'd like to show you.

Thats the problem.  The "masses" don't have a clue about the difference between Ripple and Bitcoin.  All they will see is that Ripple never had crime associated with it, the government and banks love it and support it, and unlike Bitcoin, ripple hasn't been hacked to the tune of millions of dollars every 3 months...  Ripple adoption is going to be big because the masses don't know the difference.  Ripple annoys the sh*t out of me.  Many people make money off the ignorance of the general public... Ripple will be that company.   If any hackers out there want Bitcoin to succeed, stop f*cking with bitcoin wallets and start hacking Ripple instead.

What really annoys me is Ripple proponents trying to hang around these forums and buddy up with Bitcoin enthusiasts.  Even argue with them (above).  Why are you here?  To ride coat tails?  Ripple guys - you are not the same thing.  You are, if anything, a competing technology in my opinion.  One that is going to profit off the ignorance of the public.  We are not in the same camp, and I don't know why some of you guys are hanging out here posting honestly.  

[Coinseeker]

These Ripple advocates are relentless, they keep talking around the main stupid premise: you're trading obligations, not the real thing. And there's no point in them addressing this issue, because the whole system is based around it. The system is IOU based.

Actually, Ripple addresses the issue head on.  It wasn't until Ripple folks started explaining IOU's, where many started referring to Gox USD and BTC as IOU's.  Once withdrawals became an issues, the concept finally made sense.  Well, kind of.   Look, for people that have no desire to use any other currency than Bitcoin, Ripple is of no use to you.  For the rest of the world (99.9999% of the population) Ripple is a tremendous advantage.  I can still store crypto with no counter party risk (well, its digital so it will never be completely without counter-party risk) but when I'm ready to pay someone, I can do so with total flexibility.  I'm not forced to stick with one currency and that is more in line with reality, as it relates to the future of world transactions.  So, Bitcoin as the "One World Currency folks",might as well stop responding to Ripple threads.  We don't agree and will never agree.  

[mmeijeri]

IOUs are actually one of Ripple's strengths. The point is not that IOUs are better than crypto, the point is that Ripple has both IOUs and a cryptocurrency built into one system, whereas Bitcoin has only crypto. Right now, that is one of Bitcoin's major problems. And as if that weren't enough, Ripple also has a built-in fully distributed exchange, another weak point of Bitcoin. People are working on solutions to that, but for Ripple it's built-in. But it gets better: the IOU and exchange functionality can also be used for Bitcoin!

[deepceleron]

The fact that RippleLabs keeps a fraction and can move the price is EXACTLY the same thing that Satoshi and others early miners hold a huge amount of bitcoins => not a big deal. (But knowing if the 100 billion number is fixed or not is a big deal).

99 Billion of 100 Billion is a fraction?

For the peons that have been given minute amounts and the "friends" of Ripple that have been given millions, the exchange rate is currently 40,000/BTC. That's the equivalent of saying that there is a legitimate reason for the company's premined XRP to be worth $900,000,000, which is ludicrous.

Even if Satoshi were to emerge and dump all his coins, there are book orders on exchanges wanting to buy several times more bitcoins than will ever exist. Bitcoin has value that cannot be diluted, Ripple has value only until Ripple the company decides to dilute it.

[ArticMine]

If one cross breeds Banking with Bitcoin one gets Ripple.

[AmazonStuff]

If one cross breeds Banking with Bitcoin one gets Ripple.

I would say when you cross breed everything about the money you get Ripple.

[seleme]

One thing I don't understand about Ripple is why they didn't make their currency more scarce. It's a big psychological point and being scarce is huge bitcoin selling point, most of the people I introduced with BTC have been mostly attracted with Bitcoin limited supply.

[JoelKatz]

One thing I don't understand about Ripple is why they didn't make their currency more scarce. It's a big psychological point and being scarce is huge bitcoin selling point, most of the people I introduced with BTC have been mostly attracted with Bitcoin limited supply.

We don't really want speculative demand. It just makes price unstable and increases holding risk which makes a currency less useful as a means of exchange. Our goal was not to create a high-risk, speculative investment vehicle through artificial scarcity. (Not that there's anything wrong with that.)

[seleme]

Hm, could understand that but scarcity is good marketing tool, not sure it's good idea to miss it

[JoelKatz]

Hm, could understand that but scarcity is good marketing tool, not sure it's good idea to miss it

For a payment system?

[AmazonStuff]

I will try to explain in simple words why Bitcoin and Ripple are complementary tools...

Imagine that Bitcoin becomes widely adopted currency and that you can pay with bitcoin in every store.

Do you see the problem?

Just imagine how long would be a waiting line if every customer waits for a 6 confirmations.

Bitcoin needs a payment system that could send Bitcoins instantaneously and the solution is Ripple.

I hope that you now understand how Ripple could help Bitcoin to reach wide adoption.

Cheers!

[Coinseeker]

Simplicity is always the best method.  +1 ^^

[bibbit]

The implementation you are talking about is centralized.

Incorrect. You should really look at the rippled PeerFinder code on github.

The comments in that file give a brief introduction to the design. You will also notice many commits from Vincent Falco, a veteran of p2p systems back to the gnutella days. He has a good handle on how such systems work in the wild.

[Come-from-Beyond]

I will try to explain in simple words why Bitcoin and Ripple are complementary tools...

Imagine that Bitcoin becomes widely adopted currency and that you can pay with bitcoin in every store.

Do you see the problem?

Just imagine how long would be a waiting line if every customer waits for a 6 confirmations.

Bitcoin needs a payment system that could send Bitcoins instantaneously and the solution is Ripple.

I hope that you now understand how Ripple could help Bitcoin to reach wide adoption.

Cheers!

Does Ripple offer instant reliable transactions?