Bitcoin Forum
December 08, 2016, 02:10:03 AM *
News: Latest stable version of Bitcoin Core: 0.13.1  [Torrent].
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  
Pages: [1] 2 »  All
  Print  
Author Topic: *grumble* CampBX still got rounding issues  (Read 2379 times)
elggawf
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 308



View Profile
July 31, 2011, 03:58:28 PM
 #1

So looking for greener pastures to play in this morning, I successfully, in two transactions, transferred 0.69073078 BTC to CampBX to play around with. I tried to trade 0.69BTC, and of course it still rounds it up to 0.7 and fails because I don't have that much. Yawn.

Then I go to move it out to my wallet because I'll probably just wind up spending it instead of trading it, so I transfer that amount out and after the 0.0005 transaction fee, it's rounded down to 0.6902 - no idea where the rest went. This rounding business is getting silly...

^_^
1481163003
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1481163003

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1481163003
Reply with quote  #2

1481163003
Report to moderator
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1481163003
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1481163003

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1481163003
Reply with quote  #2

1481163003
Report to moderator
1481163003
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1481163003

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1481163003
Reply with quote  #2

1481163003
Report to moderator
Keyur @ Camp BX
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 300



View Profile WWW
July 31, 2011, 04:43:55 PM
 #2

Elgawwf,
       We have intentionally opted for higher minimums like traditional stock/commodity trading platforms.  As part of moving Bitcoin towards a more mainstream experience, we have also put in significant efforts towards advanced features, tighter security, fluid UI, and a stable code-base.

As you trade more volume, you will appreciate these features more than 8 decimal points!

Thank you,
     Keyur


Please stay tuned to our news and announcements feeds at:
Twitter: https://twitter.com/CampBX
Facebook: https://facebook.com/CampBX
Mt.Fun
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 42


View Profile
July 31, 2011, 04:49:08 PM
 #3

Elgawwf,
       We have intentionally opted for higher minimums like traditional stock/commodity trading platforms.  As part of moving Bitcoin towards a more mainstream experience, we have also put in significant efforts towards advanced features, tighter security, fluid UI, and a stable code-base.

As you trade more volumes, you will appreciate these features more than 8 decimal points!

Thank you,
     Keyur



That is a good idea. No one buys .0548951 of a stock for a reason.

In regards to the rounding on transfers through the Bitcoin network... I believe it takes .0005 and whatever comes after that along with it automatically. If you think about it, whatever comes after .0005 is less than .0001 so your fee is still less than .0006.
elggawf
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 308



View Profile
July 31, 2011, 05:36:48 PM
 #4

Keyur: I can appreciate that, but to many people, disappearing fractions of a Bitcoin (particularly if it appreciates the way many true believers think it will) is still at the very least, unexpected.

I can deal with not being able to trade at less than 0.05, but it arbitrarily rounding off withdrawals is a bit much. On MtGox ('m not sure since when) I can see down to 8 digits and withdraw all of them - up to and including the "dust". Tradehill you can't see the dust (well, I've not logged into them in a while but last I tried you couldn't), but if you know how much exactly is there you can withdraw it successfully too.

Another issue is that okay - with two digit prices and trade quantities that are only multiples of 0.05 - you are unlikely to end up with an amount of BTC or USD that's smaller than four decimal places... until you take into account the 0.55% fees. At that point it's rather trivial to end up with fractions of both currencies.

Mt.Fun: It's not a Bitcoin issue - there was an issue a while back where the network/client would eat the "dust" in change as fees to avoid leaving a tiny amount on an address. That's not what's going on here, this is simply CampBX rounding everything down to four digits and calling it a day.

^_^
BGL
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 60



View Profile
August 01, 2011, 04:28:57 AM
 #5

Another problem is their date/data is not reset on UTC. BX continues pumping previous days data (to bitcoincharts) for ~3 hours after UTC.
FlipPro
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1372



View Profile WWW
August 01, 2011, 04:47:45 AM
 #6

Elgawwf,
       We have intentionally opted for higher minimums like traditional stock/commodity trading platforms.  As part of moving Bitcoin towards a more mainstream experience, we have also put in significant efforts towards advanced features, tighter security, fluid UI, and a stable code-base.

As you trade more volume, you will appreciate these features more than 8 decimal points!

Thank you,
     Keyur

Intelligence and goodwill will always win. I admire your professionalism Keyur.

Tweet For Coins http://uptweet.com
Keyur @ Camp BX
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 300



View Profile WWW
August 01, 2011, 04:49:31 AM
 #7

Another problem is their date/data is not reset on UTC. BX continues pumping previous days data (to bitcoincharts) for ~3 hours after UTC.

BGL,
      Great point; although the documentation for Bitcoin Charts do not mention UTC as a requirement for the API:
http://bitcoincharts.com/about/exchanges/

That is why we are opting to stay in sync with our customers instead of UTC.

Hope this helps,
     Keyur

Please stay tuned to our news and announcements feeds at:
Twitter: https://twitter.com/CampBX
Facebook: https://facebook.com/CampBX
julz
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1092



View Profile
August 01, 2011, 05:57:21 AM
 #8

Simply awful.

Do yourselves a favour and use integer calculations - either satoshi or even smaller.
(and please tell me you're not rounding during intermediate calculations!)

I have little faith in a system that doesn't account for the full divisibility of bitcoin from the beginning.
I predict you'll have quite a few headaches adjusting the code during any serious rally in bitcoin value.
(unless you have a pretty comprehensive test suite and anticipated it well)

Already a millibitcoin is US 1.4cents.   You've ruled yourself out of being a competitor in the online wallet field for micropayments right there.
(mtgox is moving to offer online wallet-like services.. are you?)

Disrespect the people's bitdust at your peril!


@electricwings   BM-GtyD5exuDJ2kvEbr41XchkC8x9hPxdFd
BGL
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 60



View Profile
August 01, 2011, 06:55:42 AM
 #9


BGL,
      Great point; although the documentation for Bitcoin Charts do not mention UTC as a requirement for the API:
http://bitcoincharts.com/about/exchanges/


I think camp bx is the only exchange not operating on UTC


That is why we are opting to stay in sync with our customers instead of UTC.

Hope this helps,
     Keyur


utc+3 = most of your customers are in eastern africa?
notme
Legendary
*
Online Online

Activity: 1526


View Profile
August 01, 2011, 07:57:33 AM
 #10

You allowed me to deposit 8 decimal places, but you do not allow me to withdraw 8 decimal places.  Can you guarantee my bitdust remains mine?  I ask because I can't verify myself.  I'm not sure if I'll ever use your exchange again, but if I do, I want to be able to round up my bitdust to an amount you'll allow me to work with.  I am concerned for my satoshis.

https://www.bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
While no idea is perfect, some ideas are useful.
12jh3odyAAaR2XedPKZNCR4X4sebuotQzN
jwzguy
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 868



View Profile
August 01, 2011, 09:00:22 AM
 #11

Simply awful.

Do yourselves a favour and use integer calculations - either satoshi or even smaller.
(and please tell me you're not rounding during intermediate calculations!)

I have little faith in a system that doesn't account for the full divisibility of bitcoin from the beginning.
I predict you'll have quite a few headaches adjusting the code during any serious rally in bitcoin value.
(unless you have a pretty comprehensive test suite and anticipated it well)

Already a millibitcoin is US 1.4cents.   You've ruled yourself out of being a competitor in the online wallet field for micropayments right there.
(mtgox is moving to offer online wallet-like services.. are you?)

Disrespect the people's bitdust at your peril!



This.

If CampBX doesn't think 8 decimal places are important, then I'll never use their exchange.


19wXnWTeGuraN9g5UsMAi119sWzDCQcr7S
Bitcoin Logo shirts!
phungus
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 128


I'm doin' fine on cloud 9


View Profile
August 01, 2011, 01:39:55 PM
 #12


Pretty big egos to ignore how bitcoin actually works (and will work in the future) to make it appear like a "modern" trading system.

The reason we like bitcoins is because the normal trading mechanisms and currencies are all horked to begin with.


Design your software to work with the coins the way they are supposed to. Don't assume who your audience is or you will make mistakes and push people away.


BitVPS -- Senior System Admin, Co-Owner
http://www.bitvps.com -- Reliable Servers and Support - KVM, OpenVZ & Dedicated
BGL
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 60



View Profile
August 01, 2011, 02:22:45 PM
 #13

"the documentation says "unixtime" (from wiki: defined as the number of seconds elapsed since midnight Coordinated Universal Time (UTC) of January 1, 1970, not counting leap seconds.)"
Keyur @ Camp BX
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 300



View Profile WWW
August 01, 2011, 02:45:34 PM
 #14

Update: We have enabled bit-dust, and now users are able to transact down to a single satoshi.

Elgawwf, can you please check and confirm on behalf of the thread?

Thank you!
    - Keyur



Please stay tuned to our news and announcements feeds at:
Twitter: https://twitter.com/CampBX
Facebook: https://facebook.com/CampBX
nmat
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 602


View Profile
August 01, 2011, 02:52:10 PM
 #15

Update: We have enabled bit-dust, and now users are able to transact down to a single satoshi.

Elgawwf, can you please check and confirm on behalf of the thread?

Thank you!
    - Keyur

Does this also work for withdrawals?
Keyur @ Camp BX
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 300



View Profile WWW
August 01, 2011, 03:01:02 PM
 #16

Update: We have enabled bit-dust, and now users are able to transact down to a single satoshi.

Elgawwf, can you please check and confirm on behalf of the thread?

Thank you!
    - Keyur

Does this also work for withdrawals?

Yes!

Please stay tuned to our news and announcements feeds at:
Twitter: https://twitter.com/CampBX
Facebook: https://facebook.com/CampBX
elggawf
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 308



View Profile
August 01, 2011, 03:38:31 PM
 #17

Elgawwf, can you please check and confirm on behalf of the thread?

Confirmed the 3k satoshis are visible anyway, I don't have enough in my account at the moment to actually transact with.

FWIW you could either have the last four decimal points be optional via profile, or have them only show when a user has dust in their account (though that's probably going to happen a lot with your fee schedule).

To confirm - did you enable trading at quantities finer than multiples 0.05 or does it just show and allow you to withdraw the dust? I don't mind either way, the 0.05 thing was an annoyance but I never actually felt like I'd lost anything like I did when the withdrawal was rounded.

Actually, if you made an FAQ page with all the trading rules (explaining the rounding would probably be a good thing, or at the very least have your stuff always round down... because it's counter intuitive to try and sell 0.69 BTC and then be given an error because you do not have 0.7 BTC in your account) this thread probably wouldn't be here. Cheesy

^_^
semarjt
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 27


View Profile
August 01, 2011, 03:43:54 PM
 #18

Ouch, not storing times in UTC??

Welcome to Servers 101.

In my opinion, this is a bigger red flag than some well meaning UI effort.

This speaks to incompetence or at least ignorance of basic best practice.
Keyur @ Camp BX
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 300



View Profile WWW
August 01, 2011, 03:43:54 PM
 #19

Elgawwf, can you please check and confirm on behalf of the thread?

Confirmed the 3k satoshis are visible anyway, I don't have enough in my account at the moment to actually transact with.

FWIW you could either have the last four decimal points be optional via profile, or have them only show when a user has dust in their account (though that's probably going to happen a lot with your fee schedule).

To confirm - did you enable trading at quantities finer than multiples 0.05 or does it just show and allow you to withdraw the dust? I don't mind either way, the 0.05 thing was an annoyance but I never actually felt like I'd lost anything like I did when the withdrawal was rounded.

Actually, if you made an FAQ page with all the trading rules (explaining the rounding would probably be a good thing, or at the very least have your stuff always round down... because it's counter intuitive to try and sell 0.69 BTC and then be given an error because you do not have 0.7 BTC in your account) this thread probably wouldn't be here. Cheesy

Bowing to your demand, we bid farewell to rounding.  The only requirement now is 0.1 btc minimum to buy or sell!

Thank you,
      Keyur


Please stay tuned to our news and announcements feeds at:
Twitter: https://twitter.com/CampBX
Facebook: https://facebook.com/CampBX
Keyur @ Camp BX
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 300



View Profile WWW
August 01, 2011, 03:46:50 PM
 #20

Ouch, not storing times in UTC??

Welcome to Servers 101.

In my opinion, this is a bigger red flag than some well meaning UI effort.

This speaks to incompetence or at least ignorance of basic best practice.

Semarjet,
    The times are stored in UTC, but displayed in Mountain Time.

We are already working on changing the feed to Bitcoin Charts to UTC.

Stay tuned,
    Keyur


Please stay tuned to our news and announcements feeds at:
Twitter: https://twitter.com/CampBX
Facebook: https://facebook.com/CampBX
Pages: [1] 2 »  All
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!