Would you live on a seastead?

[Dark_raven007]

If it had not been for you, I still did not find out what that already is. I would like to have a piece of paradise and come there when I want, but not on a permanent basis. On the ground, storms are easier to carry))

[pooya87]

No!
simply because it is not even created yet. we are talking about years in the future which may not even become a possible thing due to political reasons. not to mention the logistics of it! we are talking about a construct (houses) in the middle of ocean. the pictures look pretty in calm sea under the clear sky while sun is shinning but that is not how the sea always looks! the conditions can be brutal even in the safest places.

plus how much does it cost to maintain such a structure every year? keep in mind we are talking about a big structure at sea under constant corrosion in salt water, under constant pressure, different forces, ... so we have a combination of "corrosion and fatigue". who wants to live in a place that can have a catastrophic failure because of stress-corrosion cracking?

another thing that i can't wrap my head around is the dynamic nature of it!

[Elwar]

No!
simply because it is not even created yet. we are talking about years in the future which may not even become a possible thing due to political reasons. not to mention the logistics of it! we are talking about a construct (houses) in the middle of ocean. the pictures look pretty in calm sea under the clear sky while sun is shinning but that is not how the sea always looks! the conditions can be brutal even in the safest places.

plus how much does it cost to maintain such a structure every year? keep in mind we are talking about a big structure at sea under constant corrosion in salt water, under constant pressure, different forces, ... so we have a combination of "corrosion and fatigue". who wants to live in a place that can have a catastrophic failure because of stress-corrosion cracking?

another thing that i can't wrap my head around is the dynamic nature of it!

I agree. Building something in middle of the sea is daunting and it will take several years before that will happen. It would be much better to do a gradual approach such as starting in a protected body of water like a lagoon or bay with calm waters. Get all of the logistics figured out there, the engineering, the social challenges, everything you can figure out while still within a safe distance of land to get through that first phase.

Then you can move 12nm out into the ocean where you're still close to land for many supply/logistic type of things but you are challenged by the waves and other things, but at that point you have more national sovereignty. You're protected by the host nation's military but are outside of the jurisdiction of most of their laws which allows you to experiment even more with new social structures.

Then finally you move 200nm out where you have full sovereignty. At that point you're looking to start a nation and have to be out that far to get started. That is certainly a decade away for sure.

This is the approach Blue Frontiers is taking. They will start in a protected lagoon off of one of the islands of French Polynesia. Then go from there. But the key is to at least get started so we're not waiting 100 years to finally start utilizing the 70% of the earth that is covered by oceans.

[Elwar]

Im planning to move out when i retired from work,that means in five years from now i will be on that decision and if given a chance to live in that kind of peaceful environment then would love to spend rest of life in the middle of the sea but my only concern is im based on asia and as i am reading your post this sounds like its too far from my place and i may not be qualify

The plan is to have seasteads all over the world and once they're in international waters there will be no visa requirements (other than local requirements).

[Elwar]

That's very good and I also want to live there, I'm sure there must be many enthusiasts from various countries, how much to spend to stay there.

I think eventually it will be affordable. You at least need low income workers for many things so you would be required to have low costing housing.

[TSC_FR]

The first seastead will not be affordable for everybody (the same price per square meters as in big cities).
At the beginning a car was very expensive and only a few people can afford it. Nowadays a lot of people own a car or rent one.
There should be a start for living on water and this start is happening now.
And there will be cryptocurrencies to use, buy services there.

[BlueFrontiers]

Happy to see this discussion starting. We will be creating a thread for Varyon as well as for our ICO bounty program this week if anyone is interested in learning more and following our progress.

[bishopcrypto]

fascinating concept - very waterworld. i love it.

but i wonder how big can the structure get vertically and horizontally? what happens during a (rare) typhoon or tsunami? what is in place to guarantee a democratic approach to governance, and would there be citizenship and all the other things that come with being a part of a country?

why on earth does seasteading need a host country??

[Elwar]

fascinating concept - very waterworld. i love it.

but i wonder how big can the structure get vertically and horizontally? what happens during a (rare) typhoon or tsunami? what is in place to guarantee a democratic approach to governance, and would there be citizenship and all the other things that come with being a part of a country?

why on earth does seasteading need a host country??

Your former engineering questions answer the latter question about why a host country is needed.

Previous seasteading projects focused on having a seastead out in international waters (200nm away from any country) with estimates being in the hundreds of millions of dollars (just look at the cost of an oil rig to get an idea of cost). The hope is that we can come up with some better engineering that will get that price down over time. There are so many different things to consider when trying to create a seastead in international waters that not experimenting would be a rather foolish way to risk so much money.

This has resulted in considering a phased approach.

Phase 1 is building a pilot seastead in a protected lagoon of a host country.
Phase 2 is moving/building 12nm out from that location giving more sovereignty while having the challenge of open water, while maintaining a lifeline to the host nation.
Phase 3 is full sovereignty 200nm out in international waters.

Having a host country lets Blue Frontiers build in a protected lagoon which allows for working out such concepts as you mentioned, governance, citizenship, sustainability, engineering, etc. All things that might sound good on paper but once on an actual seastead might have complications that nobody ever considered. It also allows some hybridization so that baby steps can be taken. Food, for example, will be difficult to grow initially and is likely more cost effective to just buy it from the host nation. Internet can more easily be transmitted to the seastead. Many initial requirements can be covered in an incremental approach which allows Blue Frontiers to raise a smaller amount of money up front and grow from there.

A host country also gives the protection of the military which would be an even larger economic cost to a fledgling new seastead in international waters.

With the Special Economic Zone Blue Frontiers will be given some economic leeway which will allow for some initial experiments in governance but will still be under French Polynesia criminal law so rape, theft, murder, etc will have a fully functional justice system to take care of such things without needing to start from scratch.

[N.nayem]

There will be an alt coin thread dedicated specifically to the token, Vary on.

This one is for discussion of sea steading in general and the current project under way to make sea steading happen.

It is Bitcoin and block chain related in that most of the economy and governance will be block chain based and Bitcoin will certainly be popular at most of the businesses along with basically any currency anyone wants to accept.
The nice thing about this is that Blue Frontiers has first mover advantage. No competitors. The Sea standing
 Institute, which was founded by Patri Friedman and funded initially by Peter Thiel, has been around since 2008 but they merely promote the idea of sea standing and do research. They're non-profit so they can't actually build anything.

[Elwar]

The ICO thread is here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3708700.0

Go check it out.

Feel free to discuss seasteading in this thread.

What types of governments do you think the different seasteads will produce? Do you think some will win out and some lose if people can vote with their homes.

[reverseflash]

The idea is very good and attractive, but there is a question as a legislative part will be carried out and who will monitor performance of laws. Or in plans some subspecies of anarchy?

[randyhencken]

I guess I'm too new to this forum to easily figure out how to vote yes. But I am planning to have a residence on the first seastead as well. I've been working on this project since 2011, and I am excited to see it taking shape. We're lucky to have @elwar on the team. I probably won't post much here, but I know Elwar can answer questions about Blue Frontiers and The Seasteading Institute.

[Tylev]

Judging by the photograph, it will be something like a floating island. Of course, this is very interesting. However, to maintain order, you will need to create something like a microstate. In any case, it would be possible to create decentralized stock exchanges and exchange kriptovalyuty.

[adamselene]

No, I like solid ground and nature too much to give it up. However, I'll be rooting for seasteads to succeed in a big way.

[Veterock]

It's just a great idea! I would really like to live in such a place. The only thing I don't understand is whether it is moving or standing still?

[Carlton Banks]

people can vote with their homes.

I realise it may take a while, but...

Won't this idea eventually suffer from the same problems that land based homesteading did? There are only so many inhabitable parts of the ocean, and the good spots will naturally attract more people, which in turn will naturally attract intelligent psychopaths that want to impose self-serving rules on those living there. How do you vote with your house if smart egomaniacs create a worldwide seasteading governance cartel? These clever assholes will even collude to make the rules are superficially different between the seastead communities, and so the illusion of choice begins all over again.

Or is the tech likely to become so flexible that a very high percentage of the ocean (60-80% maybe?) is affordably inhabitable?

[teddyppap]

Seasteading is the concept of creating permanent dwellings at sea, called seasteads, outside the territory claimed by any government. The term is a combination of the words sea and homesteading.

The basic premise is that if you don't like your government, you can float your house to another city/nation that is more to your liking. Essentially voting with your house.

If you have any questions let me know, I've been involved in seasteading since 2008 and am currently volunteering for the The Floating Island Project in French Polynesia to get the world's first seastead up and floating by 2021.

I like to adventure and enjoy the quiet and not too special places where it is comfortable but I do not like to live on the sea

[Elwar]

people can vote with their homes.

I realise it may take a while, but...

Won't this idea eventually suffer from the same problems that land based homesteading did? There are only so many inhabitable parts of the ocean, and the good spots will naturally attract more people, which in turn will naturally attract intelligent psychopaths that want to impose self-serving rules on those living there. How do you vote with your house if smart egomaniacs create a worldwide seasteading governance cartel? These clever assholes will even collude to make the rules are superficially different between the seastead communities, and so the illusion of choice begins all over again.

Or is the tech likely to become so flexible that a very high percentage of the ocean (60-80% maybe?) is affordably inhabitable?

As the tech improves the ability to live on any part of the ocean will grow.

The first seastead will likely be in a calm lagoon by a host country. The evolution from there will be to build 12nm out from a nation in a location with waves. Once that has proven itself then a seastead 200nm out will be the goal. At that point you're in the open ocean and it's mostly the same other than going where there are less hurricanes and less rogue waves.

It is likely that going into any area with large waves will require floating wave breakers and those will likely use the power of the waves to create energy.

The earth is covered 70% by water. There is more space to live there than on land. I doubt any single entity can buy every seastead considering even a small group of people can find an open part of the water to move and not be under their thumb.

This is definitely a situation where technology will ruin the plans of centralized powers, much like Bitcoin.

[Chint_82]

I prefer to live in the mainland, and have a house in the village, not on seastead, because the main reason I do not like to live here is because I am not good at swimming and scared with water, so although attractive and luxurious, I still prefer to live in the township land, though small but comfortable in my feelings