Time to Boycott all US Companies

[franky1]

ok every CALM DOWN and take away the sniffing glue away from your noses

its seems 99% of people are reading "opinions" of what coinvalidation is about, and not reading the fact that it is just the writers opinion as oppose to the facts given directly from coinvalidation. this is known as chinese whispers.

so here goes, please remove tin foil hats and anything producing hallucinatory fumes... read twice and take regular breathes of fresh air to ensure the information is absorbed...

coinvalidation HAVE NOT personally talked much about what their system is, anyone trying to describe it as the abolishment of anonymity are totally wrong.

coinvalidation is a company (not the government) but a business advice company offering bitcoin businesses information on how to PROPERLY comply with AML/KYC in regards to sections of their business involving FIAT.
EG Exchanges
EG companies that convert BTC into FIAT for wages/stock/profit (tax purposes)

coinvalidation is NOT requiring identification of all bitcoin users. only the users that want to withdraw FIAT from legitimate exchanges above the AMLKYC thresholds.

coinvalidation is NOT about red flagging addresses with silk road taint.

now take 3 breathes of fresh air... relax... and now go back to your tinfoil hat conspiracy theories and glue sniffing activities about a new topic.

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[justusranvier]

ok every CALM DOWN and take away the sniffing glue away from your noses

its seems 99% of people are reading "opinions" of what coinvalidation is about, and not reading the fact that it is just the writers opinion as oppose to the facts given directly from coinvalidation. this is known as chinese whispers.

so here goes, please remove tin foil hats and anything producing hallucinatory fumes... read twice and take regular breathes of fresh air to ensure the information is absorbed...

coinvalidation HAVE NOT personally talked much about what their system is, anyone trying to describe it as the abolishment of anonymity are totally wrong.

coinvalidation is a company (not the government) but a business advice company offering bitcoin businesses information on how to PROPERLY comply with AML/KYC in regards to sections of their business involving FIAT.
EG Exchanges
EG companies that convert BTC into FIAT for wages/stock/profit (tax purposes)

coinvalidation is NOT requiring identification of all bitcoin users. only the users that want to withdraw FIAT from legitimate exchanges above the AMLKYC thresholds.

coinvalidation is NOT about red flagging addresses with silk road taint.

now take 3 breathes of fresh air... relax... and now go back to your tinfoil hat conspiracy theories and glue sniffing activities about a new topic.

Did Kashmir Hill fabricate the quotes in her article?

[redwraith]

ok every CALM DOWN and take away the sniffing glue away from your noses

its seems 99% of people are reading "opinions" of what coinvalidation is about, and not reading the fact that it is just the writers opinion as oppose to the facts given directly from coinvalidation. this is known as chinese whispers.

so here goes, please remove tin foil hats and anything producing hallucinatory fumes... read twice and take regular breathes of fresh air to ensure the information is absorbed...

coinvalidation HAVE NOT personally talked much about what their system is, anyone trying to describe it as the abolishment of anonymity are totally wrong.

coinvalidation is a company (not the government) but a business advice company offering bitcoin businesses information on how to PROPERLY comply with AML/KYC in regards to sections of their business involving FIAT.
EG Exchanges
EG companies that convert BTC into FIAT for wages/stock/profit (tax purposes)

coinvalidation is NOT requiring identification of all bitcoin users. only the users that want to withdraw FIAT from legitimate exchanges above the AMLKYC thresholds.

coinvalidation is NOT about red flagging addresses with silk road taint.

now take 3 breathes of fresh air... relax... and now go back to your tinfoil hat conspiracy theories and glue sniffing activities about a new topic.

You're probably right.  So much fear and speculative hyperbole in these forums. 

[AndrewWilliams]

First it's coin validation, then its...


I don't like the sound of it.

[TheButterZone]

I'd like to see any curent and future government seized Bitcoins banned from ever becoming confirmed transactions on the blockchain.

Of course this won't happen now as regulation is going to start hitting hard and what 'the government' say goes.

In this case we're talking about the most over zealous government in the world - the US Government.

Those SR coins should never be allowed to move wallets again.

Just a matter of time before all BTC owned by US residents are seized as "criminal proceeds", as we all commit 3 felonies a day, on average. Would make the rest of the world's BTC worth more if all innocent US BTC owners got fucked into oblivion, though.

[hlynur]

You're probably right.  So much fear and speculative hyperbole in these forums. 

fear and speculative hyperbole were also often heard words when discussing the scale of web observation by US some years ago...
look how that turned out.
US authorities will try to get their hands to any early branch of this young economy if they can't get to technology's roots.
Bitcoin presents among other things a huge shift of wealth over time and therefore the existing financial structures will logically make attempts to preserve status quo within this new system.

I personally like to keep a roll of tinfoil at hand at this point and watch out for any signs of outgrowth during the regulation process.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

ok every CALM DOWN and take away the sniffing glue away from your noses

its seems 99% of people are reading "opinions" of what coinvalidation is about, and not reading the fact that it is just the writers opinion as oppose to the facts given directly from coinvalidation. this is known as chinese whispers.

so here goes, please remove tin foil hats and anything producing hallucinatory fumes... read twice and take regular breathes of fresh air to ensure the information is absorbed...

coinvalidation HAVE NOT personally talked much about what their system is, anyone trying to describe it as the abolishment of anonymity are totally wrong.

coinvalidation is a company (not the government) but a business advice company offering bitcoin businesses information on how to PROPERLY comply with AML/KYC in regards to sections of their business involving FIAT.
EG Exchanges
EG companies that convert BTC into FIAT for wages/stock/profit (tax purposes)

coinvalidation is NOT requiring identification of all bitcoin users. only the users that want to withdraw FIAT from legitimate exchanges above the AMLKYC thresholds.

coinvalidation is NOT about red flagging addresses with silk road taint.

now take 3 breathes of fresh air... relax... and now go back to your tinfoil hat conspiracy theories and glue sniffing activities about a new topic.

Did Kashmir Hill fabricate the quotes in her article?

Here's a quote (second paragraph):

It’s a tracking system for Bitcoin ownership that would theoretically weed out ‘bad actors’ – like the Dread Pirate Roberts – from the legitimate Bitcoin business world. Their plan is to compile a database of the known identities associated with Bitcoin addresses in the hope that Coin Validation will become the one-stop-identity shop for law enforcement when trying to find out who’s doing something nefarious with Bitcoin, while providing a red-flag system for businesses who have customers trying to use Bitcoin that’s associated with illicit use.

“Essentially, we’ve been working with regulators for a structured approach for Bitcoin customers to be compliant,” says Waters. “We set up an API to work with their systems and we supply reporting tools they need for their databases. Which bitcoin addresses belong to a person? That’s the problem we’re solving.”

[justusranvier]

Here's a quote (second paragraph):

It’s a tracking system for Bitcoin ownership that would theoretically weed out ‘bad actors’ – like the Dread Pirate Roberts – from the legitimate Bitcoin business world. Their plan is to compile a database of the known identities associated with Bitcoin addresses in the hope that Coin Validation will become the one-stop-identity shop for law enforcement when trying to find out who’s doing something nefarious with Bitcoin, while providing a red-flag system for businesses who have customers trying to use Bitcoin that’s associated with illicit use.

“Essentially, we’ve been working with regulators for a structured approach for Bitcoin customers to be compliant,” says Waters. “We set up an API to work with their systems and we supply reporting tools they need for their databases. Which bitcoin addresses belong to a person? That’s the problem we’re solving.”

This sounds to me like she directly interviewed the people involved.

If franky1 is correct about the nature of Coin Validation, then it means that she fabricated the article out of whole cloth.

On the other hand, franky1 is on my ignore list so I presume that happened for a good reason.

[grue]

>visiting, reading, or even copying what reddit says ever

Seriously?

>having a hardon for hating reddit
really?

[User705]

Just one of many attempts that are sure to follow to co-opt Bitcoin.

I trust that the Bitcoin community is smart enough to see through this one (and the many that will follow).

Why?  Most large holders are probably already known and since they have a lot to lose they wouldn't want to rock the boat.  Smaller holders won't care since not a lot is at stake for them.

[EmperorBob]

As of today, the efforts of Bitcoin Foundation and others who have told us that Bitcoin should be altered to make it more acceptable to the regulatory apparatus has finely bore fruit.
... snip ...

A few points:

1. The Bitcoin Foundation is in no way associated with these jokers (neither is DATA, as far as I know).
2. No sane US merchant will cooperate unless they are required to by law. You don't turn away customers, or make them jump through extra hoops to pay you.
3. All merchant associations (BF,DATA, etc.), especially those whose members are mostly US based, will be the ones most hurt by this system becoming legally required.

I realize you don't trust the Foundation. That's fine. You may dislike their conciliatory approach. That's a separate discussion.
However you can bet that they will almost certainly be opposed to a law requiring this system, because of how much it would hurt their members.
And because they've been effective at engaging regulators, they'll be the most able to block any law forcing CoinValidation onto US merchants, whether through lobbying, lawsuits, or other methods.

The guys who will most likely stop this from becoming law in the US are the very people you blame. They've got too much to lose.

[justusranvier]

1. The Bitcoin Foundation is in no way associated with these jokers (neither is DATA, as far as I know).

Peter Vessenes is the one who got this ball rolling, and he's one of the founders.

Perhaps the current makeup of the Foundation is less inclined this way, but the damage has already been done.

2. No sane US merchant will cooperate unless they are required to by law. You don't turn away customers, or make them jump through extra hoops to pay you.

They will be, at least any of them under FinCEN jurisdiction.

Even if we stop this initiative, though, they'll just start over and just not announce it next time. US law allows/requires them to do this.

3. All merchant associations (BF,DATA, etc.), especially those whose members are mostly US based, will be the ones most hurt by this system becoming legally required.

I very much hope so. I sympathize with the people in the US who have tried to play by the rules and do the right thing just to be allowed to operate, but Bitcoin is more important than any individual business.

[EmperorBob]

Peter Vessenes is the one who got this ball rolling, and he's one of the founders.

He talked about tainting a couple times. That's it. And given that he's a lawyer and not an economist, he probably didn't realize how terrible the idea was at the time. The foundation has never, and likely will never, endorse tainting.

They will be, at least any of them under FinCEN jurisdiction.

Exchanges are already a lost cause (even the ones outside the US), precisely because they receive tons of Fiat money and integrate directly into the regular financial system. FINCEN has not claimed jurisdiction over regular merchants, who accept bitcoin as payment.

Even if we stop this initiative, though, they'll just start over and just not announce it next time. US law allows/requires them to do this.

The data gathering aspect, yes. But they can only share the information that they actually know about the buyer. Digital goods merchants probably only know your email address, not your identity. But then again, the NSA can get the info even if no money changes hands at all. Hell they can get your info regardless of where you buy your stuff, because most of the shipping companies are US based, and therefore their shipping records are accessible to the Govt. This is unfortunate, but has little to do with Bitcoin

The really dangerous part of the CoinValidation initiative, is to make merchants reject funds that aren't sent from an address with an associated identity. But that can't be done in secret, because they need to tell you that you need to register and give them a bunch of info.

Again, let's not panic, I suspect that this idea will be killed off pretty quickly. We don't need to start punishing US merchants in advance just because they might decide to cooperate. We can always do it after the fact, and avoid hurting people who are on our side (despite differing tactical approaches).

[Ford]

Im not sure about the validity of this "news" and im not really a supporter of "big brother watching us"....

BUT, IF the US gov do know who ALL addresses belong to, what difference will it actually make? it is not as though US citizens have privacy anyhow.... the gov already knows pretty much all there is to be known about its citizens.
(they currently know where people live, work, play, vacate, how much money people have, earn, save, spend, what schools people went to, how well educated people are, if people have a criminal record, when and where people were born or died, health records, who peoples friends are, what TV channels people watch, and probably a shitload more!)

Other than more loss of privacy, what effect do people think this will have in reality anyhow?.... unless you are laundering money or evading your tax, it is likely to have very little effect on how we use bitcoin.

If the US gov ARE pushing for this "transparency" at least they are not pushing to ban it!

[marcus_of_augustus]

OK, I really hated the tone of this post ... first who the hell are you to come here denigrating and accusing people of sniffing substance, hallucinating and hyperventilating? ... even before you get close to your point (which wasn't exactly clear) that seemed like a veiled apology for this disastrous business model because it has been 'misconstrued' by a naive journalist?

If you have a point, stick to it and cut the ad hominen crap. Point is you don't have a good argument and people are right to be terribly upset at this very bad idea and obvious outright attack on their financial privacy and the future viability of bitcoin.

Already in 1749 the courts recognised the necessity for fungibility of coin as a basic function, yet idiots over 300 years later cannot see that what the govt. is attempting to do to with money is exactly that, break fungibility. Those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it. Bitcoin is an opt out of the current broken monetary system, not the least of which is its recent terrible tracking systems layer, why the hell would bitcoin want to go back down that failed Centralised model path?!

ok every CALM DOWN and take away the sniffing glue away from your noses

its seems 99% of people are reading "opinions" of what coinvalidation is about, and not reading the fact that it is just the writers opinion as oppose to the facts given directly from coinvalidation. this is known as chinese whispers.

so here goes, please remove tin foil hats and anything producing hallucinatory fumes... read twice and take regular breathes of fresh air to ensure the information is absorbed...

coinvalidation HAVE NOT personally talked much about what their system is, anyone trying to describe it as the abolishment of anonymity are totally wrong.

coinvalidation is a company (not the government) but a business advice company offering bitcoin businesses information on how to PROPERLY comply with AML/KYC in regards to sections of their business involving FIAT.
EG Exchanges
EG companies that convert BTC into FIAT for wages/stock/profit (tax purposes)

coinvalidation is NOT requiring identification of all bitcoin users. only the users that want to withdraw FIAT from legitimate exchanges above the AMLKYC thresholds.

coinvalidation is NOT about red flagging addresses with silk road taint.

now take 3 breathes of fresh air... relax... and now go back to your tinfoil hat conspiracy theories and glue sniffing activities about a new topic.

[sushi]

this year, many Americans abroad lost their bank accounts and stock accounts and others because of the New American Laws.  WIth more suppression to the Bitcoins, everyone except American will end up making the profit and Bitcoin continues to glow while, merchants from other countries will eat into the profits that could be made by American and pay tax for it.

It seems, USA is choking his own neck this year

[inform]

continues grow tex usa gov

[Impaler]

Did people seriously think BTC was going to 'go main stream' while still completely flouting AML/KYC regulations?  Libertarian fantasies do not a viable currency make, if you want BTC to remain an underground thing then by all means keep existing in a legal grey area, but don't expect everyone on the planet to be using it 5 years from now.

[phillipsjk]

Did people seriously think BTC was going to 'go main stream' while still completely flouting AML/KYC regulations?

Bitcoin exposes how stupid those regulations are. I fully expect KYC/AML to be repealed. I also suspect at least a few governments will try to ban Bitcoin first.

[marcus_of_augustus]

Did people seriously think BTC was going to 'go main stream' while still completely flouting AML/KYC regulations?  Libertarian fantasies do not a viable currency make, if you want BTC to remain an underground thing then by all means keep existing in a legal grey area, but don't expect everyone on the planet to be using it 5 years from now.

... and you lot are delusional if you think KYC/AML laws are compatible with a functional monetary system .... stalemate I guess?

Edit: I guess you at least recognize where the problem lies, BitCoin supplies the mirror, not the solution, for your problems.