Efficacy of colloidal silver

[Sukrim]

Edit:
I did NOT start this thread, it was ripped out of context and given a misleading title by theymos (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=33345.0), something I do not agree with, by the way.
Originally it was an answer to a thread by tecshare that was very similar to https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=32199.0

***** end of edit *****


Just a few links to consider:

Possible side effect:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argyria

Esowatch, German:
http://esowatch.com/ge/index.php?title=Kolloidales_Silber

On the other hand, sea water contains between 2-100 ppm silver, so this stuff might not be really that dangerous. To consume 12 ppm silver you might also just enjoy some nice freshwater fish, it has about the same concentration of silver... and probably tastes better.

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[Sukrim]

As I said: You might also just eat a (very small) bite of some nice fish instead of buying 1.8 ml of 12 ppm Ag(aq) per day to have the same intake of Silver.

Do as you wish, that stuff seems quite harmless in that concentrations - but be VERY careful if you create it on your own with that wire you're offering!

[casascius]

The problem isn't in the "positive results" that the FDA is conspiring to withhold from the public, the problem is that no medical evidence supports colloidal silver as being effective for any of its claimed indications.

[Sukrim]

I am willing to bet that you, like many others have never actually looked into the subject yourself and simply dismiss it because that is what everyone else does.

How much? I studied chemistry by the way...

Also I stated nothing about personal freedom - if you want to look like papa smurf, so be it! Just making sure that some warnings have been said and heard, especially about that wire. Far too often people think "more is better" and 5µg/kg/day is already including your normal consumption by food.

Maybe it might be appealing for some people to bitch about regulations, FDA, "totalitarian policies" (like http://www.fda.gov/AnimalVeterinary/NewsEvents/CVMUpdates/ucm127976.htm) and whatnot... and the line "Stop treating the symptoms, and treat the cause." in connection with advertising this product sounds at least suggestive to me. All in all what you are selling is overpriced (or let's say at least very expensive) silver wire and water in some fancy bottles that contains less silver in total than a mouthful of sea water.

By the way, the "I decided to produce it myself and share it with the world!" part is really worrying me, as I personally don't trust that you have the necessary equipment + expertise as a hobbyist to work 100% safe and sterile. Silver might even be the least dangerous stuff in "homebrewn" colloidal silver solutions.

Oh and by the way: Buying this stuff can be illegal in a few countries in the world, maybe this should also be mentioned.

[Sukrim]

Also I clearly stated I only ship to the USA

At least not in this thread at the time of this posting...

I don't "fear monger", I stated some simple facts. It is possible (as with every substance) to overdose silver and you did NOT give any safety hints or warnings in your OP.

This "herbal ban" in europe is just FUD spread on the internet (as you would know, if you'd actually live in Europe), food supplements are not necessary if you are on a healthy diet and people on the silk road are also just "on a mission to provide a product to those that actually want it".

Also you encouraged me explicitly in the OP to "do my own research and look critically at the empirical evidence of this products effects". According to empirical evidence, it is useless at best, harmful at worst (by turning you into a smurf) and I was posting the sources to that. Sorry if it's not what you intend to see (I guess something along the lines of "It now sparkles when I jerk off, thank you collodial silver!" would be better promotion) but as much as you can try to sell distilled water with (supposedly - it's not that trivial to measure! How do you do QA btw. in your "home lab"?) 0.0012% Ag, I can also state some facts that might make people think a bit before buying blindly. I fear however that the usual customer of this stuff anyways rather buys that BECAUSE a doctor says it doesn't help - because it all totally makes sense somehow with the government and companies and legislation and authorities and whatnot all being after you, your money and your health!

tl;dr:
Collodial silver is potentially dangerous - read safety manuals first! Whoever consumes "homebrewn" medicine dietary supplements ... ah well, what could possibly go wrong?!

[robertbogdon]

I wonder how long until we get a completely new post about colloidal silver to get rid of all of the posts that question it's effectiveness and safety.  Didn't take very long last time.

http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=31261.0

[casascius]

Hey everyone, I'm selling colloidal lead. It will make you feel great but it is illegal for me to tell you how. Don't listen to the government about the so called danger, they just want you to live a miserable life. If lead were so dangerous, why do you always hear about doctors leaving bullets in people wounded by firearms. Lead is used every day in hospitals to protect people from dangerous radiation and you too can be protected.  Stock up for nuclear Armageddon.  Buy today!

[jakemates]

Yeah, thats what I thought. Let me know when you have some evidence, otherwise troll-lol-lol away in broken English.

If we're on the topic of broken English, random bolding buzzwords and other random sections along with putting things in bright red and adding RANDOM CAPITALS AND EXCLAMATION POINTS also makes it seem like broken English!

[casascius]

I see, now this has degraded to a criticism of my formatting. This is a dishonor to me and my family - retribution will be swift.

It is primarily a criticism of the worthless product you are offering for sale.  The implication is that you think we're dumb enough to buy it.  And of course, you've formatted your ad in a way that's meant to appeal to dumber folks.

If you were here selling silver coins, you'd get plenty of respect.  Even selling sex toys would keep your head up.  But silver to drink?  For health reasons?  That you made yourself?  Give me a break!

[Sukrim]

So far I have not seen a single piece of evidence that demonstrates this stuff is toxic, only a bunch of wives tales and horror stories about blue skin, which is by the way a completely COSMETIC condition that only happens when A, the "colloidal silver" is produced with impure ingredients, and B, it is used in EXTREMELY EXCESSIVE amounts. YOU HAVE NOT SHOWN ME THIS STUFF IS DANGEROUS, simply lots of fear mongering and attacks like I said.

Alrighty, Mr. Know-it-all!

Reading a few esoteric websites or forum posts on the internet does not make you an expert on a topic - neither does experimenting on yourself.

You have a certain responsibility towards your customers, "free choice" fighter, not bowing to fear or not. If a car dealer shows you a nice new car, says you should do research on your own, because it's so amazing, he isn't even allowed to tell you yourself and then starts ranting about red traffic lights and how they hinder him from driving like he wants - you MIGHT be interested in the statement of that guy in the corner that says "that car sure looks nice, but the breaks don't work if you go faster than 150 kph!". On one hand now this might be irrelevant, as you might anyways not drive that fast, on the other hand it kinda makes you wonder what else that car dealer is not telling you, hm?

You sell 1.5 grammes (or 1 500 000 000 µg) of pure silver. According to your "5µg/kg/day" rule (cited from Wikipedia... ) that is enough for a looong time - or a heavy overdose (the estimated lethal dose of silver is ~10 g). You can't buy medicine ina a pharmacy by the tonnes for a reason...

Furthermore you sell "american home made" 12 ppm Ag(aq) with 0 references on hygiene standards, preparation methods or measures you took to guarantee that amount of Ag in that solution. A hint: Usually you have a +/- ...% or -/+ ...ppm deviation added when buying/selling pure chemicals (just like your .9999 Silver may contain max. 100 ppm impurities). I wonder if you have an analysis certificate from a tested + authorized laboratory about the silver (and possible other) contents of your home-mixture, or are labs also all just part of this huge global plot against you and your precious "natural antibiotic"?

All you do here is spreading false information (Argyria is NOT only caused by some impure ingredients, as the colloidal silver has plenty of stuff to react with inside your body - your inside is not covered with teflon!), accuse anyone citing sources of "parroting" and if they don't, they "haven't checked the facts for themselves" (additionally you imply that they are facists...). Your OP consists of a lengthy rant about the FDA, but has VERY little information about the actual product and absolutely NO warnings whatsoever about possible side effects, max. daily limits of intake etc.

^This is what I don't like. The product itself (the water, not the wire) is most likely anyways just tap water or at least contains far less silver than a mouthful of ordinary seawater (if it really is 12ppm Ag in there). Be careful when you go snorkelling!

[Sukrim]

Direct question:
Analysis certificate + results available? Yes/no + explanation why not if no.

[robertbogdon]

How is the quality and safety of your product a peripheral issue?

[robertbogdon]

Side effects may include: coma, death.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15111684

[casascius]

That, and the burden isn't on me or any of us to prove that the stuff does nothing useful.  That's just not the way it works.

[Sukrim]

[...]peripheral issues. [...] diversion from the facts.

Again:
DIRECT question concerning your product:
Analysis certificate + results available? Yes/no + explanation why not if no.

This is a central issue, as I have serious doubts regarding the purity + quality of your product.

Edit:
I'm not concerned your product is dangerous in this concentration - I'm concerned it either is NOT in the advertised concentration or not not the advertised product at all.

[Sukrim]

How is it harassment to ask for proof of what you are claiming to sell is really what you sell?

Googling "Republican root colloidal silver" returned nothing linked to your business, so I'm asking here instead of some contact link on your website. If it is the wrong place, please tell me another possibility to get this information. Just like gold/silver bars come with certificates, so do chemicals.

[Sukrim]

"Funny" thing is, now anyone else asking this question instead will then be accused of being me...

I just thought, I could save myself the hassle of creating a new forum account, asking with that one and talk to you like a grown-up businessman.

Anyways, there's this saying: No answer is an answer too.

[casascius]

I'm interested in the answer to the question too.

[Sukrim]

They wanted to argue the subject, not me. I don't appreciate this.

I don't appreciate at all that some of my posts get split and ripped out of context without notice!

Also I am still arguing the quality of your product, so this belongs to the selling thread, not elsewhere.

Edit:
And I also don't care about the efficacy of 12 ppm colloidal silver. This thread title (which is NOT from me) is misleading.

[Earthlite Organics]

As far as turning blue goes, you would need to ingest a lot of that silver. Besides that, it isn't toxic or deadly.

My grandmother uses it in a nasal spray form - She had MRSA and it helped to kill it.

The MRSA was otherwise resistant to antibiotics.