Bitcoin for oil?

[Gordon_Freeman]

This is waaaay far down the line but if this were to occur it would revolutionize nearly every aspect of geopolitics.  At the time of writing BTC1 will buy you 3-4 barrels of crude.  Not to mention all of us early adopters would get extraordinarily wealthy 

Thoughts?

[rauderce]

And where would we keep them? By renting the Sultan of Oman's underground oil well?

[Gordon_Freeman]

Lol that's not what I said.  I'm saying if nations/corporations started pricing/purchasing barrels of crude in BTC.  Not us regular users.

In other words, does bitcoin have the potential to become the world's reserve currency?

[Piper67]

This is waaaay far down the line but if this were to occur it would revolutionize nearly every aspect of geopolitics.  At the time of writing BTC1 will buy you 3-4 barrels of crude.  Not to mention all of us early adopters would get extraordinarily wealthy 

Thoughts?

It is way down the line, and you can bet your ass the US isn't going to take kindly to people buying and denominating oil in anything other than USD (if you don't believe me, as Iran). But I do see a tiny bit of a chance if and when China finally decides to make a move.

And yes, it will blow the existing system out of the water 

[Gordon_Freeman]

This is waaaay far down the line but if this were to occur it would revolutionize nearly every aspect of geopolitics.  At the time of writing BTC1 will buy you 3-4 barrels of crude.  Not to mention all of us early adopters would get extraordinarily wealthy 

Thoughts?

It is way down the line, and you can bet your ass the US isn't going to take kindly to people buying and denominating oil in anything other than USD (if you don't believe me, as Iran). But I do see a tiny bit of a chance if and when China finally decides to make a move.

And yes, it will blow the existing system out of the water 

"isn't going to take kindly" = war.  Ask Saddam or Gaddafi what happens to those that try to price oil in something other than USD.

What I've been wondering is *how* the banks will launch a war against a decentralized digital currency.

[franky1]

Lol that's not what I said.  I'm saying if nations/corporations started pricing/purchasing barrels of crude in BTC.  Not us regular users.

In other words, does bitcoin have the potential to become the world's reserve currency?

kind of..

a few years back me and a few others thought about making a website that instead of valuing bitcoin against FIAT, it was valued against a loaf of bread or a barrel of oil.

many conversations were had
EG
"do we use the 3600 coin production per day as like a minimum wage figure, divide it by numbers of unique miners to then get an average daily income amount. to then calculate bitcoin value vs real life daily spend"

in the end it came down to maths of such:
3600 coins, if there were 3600 miners then thats 1BTC a day.. minimum wage average for developed countries = £$Euro60 (average) and then pricing the food/oil in bitcoin accordingly via the FIAT prices of such commodities..

unless oil barons start taking bitcoin at a bartered price (not linked to a fiat valuation) and the same with farmers etc. the price of BTC will be linked to FIAT, so the whole treating BTC as a reserve currency wont work because bitcoin will still be linked to a fiat price.

it will take along time for BARTERING to really be a known concept and for people to no longer compare bitcoin towards a fiat value.

everyone would need to start thinking
well each day a loaf of bread is a 60th of my daily income, my electric is a 30th and my car fuel is a 6th .. if i earned 1BTC today then:
loaf of bread= 0.0166BTC
electric= 0.033BTC
car fuel=0.166BTC

and they would daily use those figures to barter for food household bills and car fuel.

meaning:
if oil barons priced oil in BTC based on  MTGOX FIAT valution.. then no
if oil barons priced oil in BTC based on average bitcoin production VS oil production. then yes, bitcoin can become a reserve currency

[Fiyasko]

This is waaaay far down the line but if this were to occur it would revolutionize nearly every aspect of geopolitics.  At the time of writing BTC1 will buy you 3-4 barrels of crude.  Not to mention all of us early adopters would get extraordinarily wealthy  

Thoughts?

It is way down the line, and you can bet your ass the US isn't going to take kindly to people buying and denominating oil in anything other than USD (if you don't believe me, as Iran). But I do see a tiny bit of a chance if and when China finally decides to make a move.

And yes, it will blow the existing system out of the water  

"isn't going to take kindly" = war.  Ask Saddam or Gaddafi what happens to those that try to price oil in something other than USD.

What I've been wondering is *how* the banks will launch a war against a decentralized digital currency.

I was so fucking disgusted at that
"We will sell you our oil for precious metals"
"No, you will sell us your oil for our paperfiat"
"screw that, thats just paper"
"no, see right here it says XYZ US dollars, to be used (blah blah legal tender)"
"I will not accept US dollars as i am not apart of the US and am not required too"
"Fine, Mr.Gun would like to speak to you"
"Bang"
"So!, Mr.oil seller#2, you WILL take our paper fiat!"
"No we will not!, We will not take that stuff and we will not be intimidated!"
"Mr.gun?"
"BANG!"
"OKAY BOYS!, JUST TAKE IT!, THEY WONT SELL IT TO US!"
Mr.Oil seller#3 "So you're going to steal it after killing the people who refused to sell it to you for worthless paper fiat?!"
"We said so didn't we?"
"THIS MEANS WAR YOU SON OF A BITCH!, WE DON'T WANT PAPER FIAT!"

"This just in today, weapons of mass destruction held by terrorists are armed and ready to fire from XYZ location that also happens has a massive amount of crude oil, war has been declaired by the opposing country and we must defend our country, OUR FREEDOMS!"

"What in the fuck is going on.... we just didnt accept the fiat paper! that's it!"
WAR ON TERROR HAS BEGUN!, AMERICA INVADES

[franky1]

I was so fucking disgusted at that
"We will sell you our oil for precious metals"
"No, you will sell us your oil for our paperfiat"
"screw that, thats just paper"
"no, see right here it says XYZ US dollars, to be used (blah blah legal tender)"
"I will not accept US dollars as i am not apart of the US and am not required too"
"Fine, Mr.Gun would like to speak to you"
"Bang"
"So!, Mr.oil seller#2, you WILL take our paper fiat!"
"No we will not!, We will not take that stuff and we will not be intimidated!"
"Mr.gun?"
"BANG!"
"OKAY BOYS!, JUST TAKE IT!, THEY WONT SELL IT TO US!"
Mr.Oil seller#3 "So you're going to steal it after killing the people who refused to sell it to you for worthless paper fiat?!"
"We said so didn't we?"
"THIS MEANS WAR YOU SON OF A BITCH!, WE DON'T WANT PAPER FIAT!"

"This just in today, weapons of mass destruction held by terrorists are armed and ready to fire from XYZ location that also happens has a massive amount of crude oil, war has been declaired by the opposing country and we must defend our country, OUR FREEDOMS!"

"What in the fuck is going on.... we just didnt accept the fiat paper! that's it!"
WAR ON TERROR HAS BEGUN!, AMERICA INVADES

weldone someone that fully understands what the last few decades worth of fighting was all about

[Gordon_Freeman]

Lol that's not what I said.  I'm saying if nations/corporations started pricing/purchasing barrels of crude in BTC.  Not us regular users.

In other words, does bitcoin have the potential to become the world's reserve currency?

kind of..

a few years back me and a few others thought about making a website that instead of valuing bitcoin against FIAT, it was valued against a loaf of bread or a barrel of oil.

many conversations were had
EG
"do we use the 3600 coin production per day as like a minimum wage figure, divide it by numbers of unique miners to then get an average daily income amount. to then calculate bitcoin value vs real life daily spend"

in the end it came down to maths of such:
3600 coins, if there were 3600 miners then thats 1BTC a day.. minimum wage average for developed countries = £$Euro60 (average) and then pricing the food/oil in bitcoin accordingly via the FIAT prices of such commodities..

unless oil barons start taking bitcoin at a bartered price (not linked to a fiat valuation) and the same with farmers etc. the price of BTC will be linked to FIAT, so the whole treating BTC as a reserve currency wont work because bitcoin will still be linked to a fiat price.

it will take along time for BARTERING to really be a known concept and for people to no longer compare bitcoin towards a fiat value.

everyone would need to start thinking
well each day a loaf of bread is a 60th of my daily income, my electric is a 30th and my car fuel is a 6th .. if i earned 1BTC today then:
loaf of bread= 0.0166BTC
electric= 0.033BTC
car fuel=0.166BTC

and they would daily use those figures to barter for food household bills and car fuel.

meaning:
if oil barons priced oil in BTC based on  MTGOX FIAT valution.. then no
if oil barons priced oil in BTC based on average bitcoin production VS oil production. then yes, bitcoin can become a reserve currency

Precisely.  Basically how I would see it working out is the reverse of the current system: fiat would be valued AGAINST BTC because it would be the world's reserve currency.  So instead of saying 1 BTC = $x, it would be $1 = xBTC.  THAT would be the day BTC reached world reserve status.  But that day has a long way before coming as dramatized so eloquently by @JackRabiit lol.

As long as there are countries, fiat can and should exist within that country. 

The fundamental problem today is that the world's reserve currency is fiat, made even worse by the mind-boggling concept of interest.  In other words the top bankers click a button and they create more of it which is owed back to them.  Add interest to what is owed back and what happens is there is more money owed back to them than what exists in the system (money that only they can create).  This is why the entire world to some extent is in a way enslaved by banks.  This is explained nicely in the first two Zeitgeist movies.

[superfluouso]

Not really as way down the line as you might think.

Come check out MasterCoin
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=265488.msg2841328#msg2841328

[Carlton Banks]

I was so fucking disgusted at that
"We will sell you our oil for precious metals"
"No, you will sell us your oil for our paperfiat"
"screw that, thats just paper"
"no, see right here it says XYZ US dollars, to be used (blah blah legal tender)"
"I will not accept US dollars as i am not apart of the US and am not required too"
"Fine, Mr.Gun would like to speak to you"
"Bang"
"So!, Mr.oil seller#2, you WILL take our paper fiat!"
"No we will not!, We will not take that stuff and we will not be intimidated!"
"Mr.gun?"
"BANG!"
"OKAY BOYS!, JUST TAKE IT!, THEY WONT SELL IT TO US!"
Mr.Oil seller#3 "So you're going to steal it after killing the people who refused to sell it to you for worthless paper fiat?!"
"We said so didn't we?"
"THIS MEANS WAR YOU SON OF A BITCH!, WE DON'T WANT PAPER FIAT!"

"This just in today, weapons of mass destruction held by terrorists are armed and ready to fire from XYZ location that also happens has a massive amount of crude oil, war has been declaired by the opposing country and we must defend our country, OUR FREEDOMS!"

"What in the fuck is going on.... we just didnt accept the fiat paper! that's it!"
WAR ON TERROR HAS BEGUN!, AMERICA INVADES

weldone someone that fully understands what the last few decades centuries worth of fighting was all about

FTFY

[freethink2013]

I'd argue that oil is nothing more than an excuse these days. Anyone who hasn't seen "Why we fight?" should watch it. It's less about oil and more about having a war based economy and secondary services than need constant conflict and who profiteer on 'reconstruction' etc

What it's NEVER about is afghan girls getting an education or toppling dictators because they are terrible or democracy.

[Gordon_Freeman]

I'd argue that oil is nothing more than an excuse these days. Anyone who hasn't seen "Why we fight?" should watch it. It's less about oil and more about having a war based economy and secondary services than need constant conflict and who profiteer on 'reconstruction' etc

What it's NEVER about is afghan girls getting an education or toppling dictators because they are terrible or democracy.

war based economy = WAR IS PEACE

I know what you're saying, Orwell teaches this concept in 1984.  The US doesn't actually need the oil.  Canada can supply them with more than enough, and they will be a net exporter in a couple years due to hydraulic fracturing.  What it's about is

• Influence/control in the region
• Perpetuating the petrodollar by forcing Middle Eastern oil producing nations to price oil in USD
• Helping Israel with their beefs
• Keeping pressure against the real "enemies": Russia and China

[franky1]

I'd argue that oil is nothing more than an excuse these days. Anyone who hasn't seen "Why we fight?" should watch it. It's less about oil and more about having a war based economy and secondary services than need constant conflict and who profiteer on 'reconstruction' etc

What it's NEVER about is afghan girls getting an education or toppling dictators because they are terrible or democracy.

war based economy = WAR IS PEACE

I know what you're saying, Orwell teaches this concept in 1984.  The US doesn't actually need the oil.  Canada can supply them with more than enough, and they will be a net exporter in a couple years due to hydraulic fracturing.  What it's about is

• Influence/control in the region
• Perpetuating the petrodollar by forcing Middle Eastern oil producing nations to price oil in USD
• Helping Israel with their beefs
• Keeping pressure against the real "enemies": Russia and China

the whole thing about USA and canada having enough oil for its own population needs. is a moot point. its about having the most EXCESS resources to sell to other countries, to basically grab their wealth.

they can value oil in raspberrycoins or facebook credits for all i care, what american war is all about is getting the physical oil.
which the US government then trades for cheap champaign, livestock, metals, whatever they please.. (picking random products out of my head)

if oil was priced in facebook credits, dollars, yen, pasata's, euro's, whatever.. i know i can look at a currency conversion chart and find a price for that barrel in my homeland coin of Pound Sterling. offer the amount of pound sterling to the oil baron that equates to the (insert currency here) and the oil baron will accept it. as he will convert it to his prefered currency.

so the currency of use is not important. WHO owns the most of it does. and thats why USA goes to war. to get a nice lucrative deal for oil to own the majority of it compared to other countries.

[roflmao129]

doesnt exactly have that much to do with the topic but paying with bitcoins via smartphone at the gas station would be awesome. would save the 10metres inside to pay! haha

[Carlton Banks]

"There are no nations, there are no peoples, there are no Russians. There are no Arabs, there are no Third Worlds. There is no West. There is only one holistic system of systems. One vast and immane, interwoven, interacting, multi-variate, multinational dominion of dollars. Petro-dollars, electro-dollars, multi-dollars. Reichmarks, rins, rubles, pounds and shekels. It is the international system of currency which determines the totality of life on this planet. That is the natural order of things today. That is the atomic, and the sub-atomic, and the galactic structure of things today.

There is no America.
There is no Democracy.
There is only IBM and ITT and AT&T and DuPont, Dow, Union Carbide, and Exxon.
Those are the nations of the world today.

We no longer live in a world of ideologies and nations, Mr. Beale. The world is a college of corporations, inexorably determined by the immutable by-laws of business.

The world, is a business Mr. Beale"

[Gordon_Freeman]

"There are no nations, there are no peoples, there are no Russians. There are no Arabs, there are no Third Worlds. There is no West. There is only one holistic system of systems. One vast and immane, interwoven, interacting, multi-variate, multinational dominion of dollars. Petro-dollars, electro-dollars, multi-dollars. Reichmarks, rins, rubles, pounds and shekels. It is the international system of currency which determines the totality of life on this planet. That is the natural order of things today. That is the atomic, and the sub-atomic, and the galactic structure of things today.

There is no America.
There is no Democracy.
There is only IBM and ITT and AT&T and DuPont, Dow, Union Carbide, and Exxon.
Those are the nations of the world today.

We no longer live in a world of ideologies and nations, Mr. Beale. The world is a college of corporations, inexorably determined by the immutable by-laws of business.

The world, is a business Mr. Beale"

Watched that movie recently for the first time, funnily enough.  Great scene.  Pretty prophetic film.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WINDtlPXmmE

[Carlton Banks]

"There are no nations, there are no peoples, there are no Russians. There are no Arabs, there are no Third Worlds. There is no West. There is only one holistic system of systems. One vast and immane, interwoven, interacting, multi-variate, multinational dominion of dollars. Petro-dollars, electro-dollars, multi-dollars. Reichmarks, rins, rubles, pounds and shekels. It is the international system of currency which determines the totality of life on this planet. That is the natural order of things today. That is the atomic, and the sub-atomic, and the galactic structure of things today.

There is no America.
There is no Democracy.
There is only IBM and ITT and AT&T and DuPont, Dow, Union Carbide, and Exxon.
Those are the nations of the world today.

We no longer live in a world of ideologies and nations, Mr. Beale. The world is a college of corporations, inexorably determined by the immutable by-laws of business.

The world, is a business Mr. Beale"

Watched that movie recently for the first time, funnily enough.  Great scene.  Pretty prophetic film.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WINDtlPXmmE

Funny how they never show it on TV, eh? Multiple Oscar winner, apparently. I was told it was an underground cult classic for kooks and gun nuts. What could be behind that decision to keep it off TV screens? Can't think at all what it could be.

[Thenen]

Won't buy oil, people are coming out with electric cars.....

[DeathAndTaxes]

Won't buy oil, people are coming out with electric cars.....

Let me know when they make electric jets, electric pesticides, electric plastics, electric asphalt ...

Oil moves the world.   Gasoline is relatively easy to replace other stuff not so much.