WTF Cointerra

[testerx]

What's going on with your warranty?  In the original terms and conditions we both agreed upon when I sent you tens of thousands of dollars it clearly stated that there was a 90 day warranty, but now it's suddenly 30 days.  Not only that you're sending out e-mails offering to "double" the warranty to 60 days if we pay $3500 per unit for hosting.

CoinTerra’s partnership with TerraMine Hosting has enabled us to make a limited-time offer to apply the pre-paid shipping fees for your TerraMiner hardware against the cost of a 6 or 12  month hosting plan. This offer expires at midnight on November 22nd 2013.

Some of the benefits of hosting your TerraMiner with TerraMine Hosting include:

Tier-3 compliant data center with 99.98% uptime guarantee.

The warranty period on your TerraMiner is doubled from 30 to 60 days.

You've been CLEARLY stating that it's a 90 day warranty even on your own forums: http://forum.cointerra.com/threads/do-you-offer-a-warranty.21/ So why the hell am I suddenly being e-mailed an offer to pay you another $7000 to "double" my warranty to 60 days with hosting?  There have been no e-mails whatsoever to existing customers that there's been a change in the length of warranty, but now you're e-mailing asking us to pay more money to get a 60 day warranty.  WTF?!?  

And why is there even a change in the warranty length?!?  Was there some hardware issue that's causing less reliability than originally anticipated?  You guys are being completely opaque and secretive about these changes and this is not how this is supposed to work.  You guys are acting shadier than BFL with warranties here and not telling anybody about it.  Your own forums still say it's 90 days so what the hell is going on?

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[xstr8guy]

Isn't it obvious?  They ran out of money and aren't able to finish development... hence the blatant cash grab.

[Paladin69]

Bankruptcy filing incoming.

[kaerf]

http://forum.cointerra.com/threads/do-you-offer-a-warranty.21/#post-41
they say 90 in the forum, but terms are 30 days in http://cointerra.com/consumer-sales-agreement/

[SemiMolten]

Never trust those asic mining manufacturers 

[AdamKD]

Terms were changed (Note:  Someone should do a side-by-side comparison on what's changed since 8/30/2013):

https://web.archive.org/web/20130830060359/http://cointerra.com/consumer-sales-agreement/
That's the 8/30/2013 archive.org copy of the website which recites:

"Warranties. CoinTerra warrants that its Product(s) will, at the time of shipment and for a period of ninety days thereafter, be free from defects in material and workmanship, be free of all liens and encumbrances, and will conform to CoinTerra’s approved specifications."

Current agreement on: http://cointerra.com/consumer-sales-agreement/

"Warranties. CoinTerra warrants that its Product(s) will, at the time of shipment and for a period of thirty (30) days thereafter, be free from defects in material and workmanship, be free of all liens and encumbrances, and will conform to CoinTerra’s approved specifications."

TL;DR:  CoinTerra pulling a fast one.

[Vagnavs]

butterfly labs 2.0. If they can survive and deliver a product.

[markjamrobin]

butterfly labs 2.0. If they can survive and deliver a product.

*butterfly labs 2.0. If they can survive and not deliver a product.

[ericdc30]

Doesn't look good for Cointerra to pull a scam like that. If I had money invested in a rig I would take it out now!

Please people don't do mining preorders buy Bitcoins already! Start doing your math before getting into this preorder bs. When the time is right you can make money with hardware but now is not the time. Mining hardware progression will stabilize at 28nm you have plenty of time to buy into the next gen.

You don't have to do preorders to get a good return. Many of you will end up regretting this and perhaps some will actually get lucky and get your gear on time.

Anyway the bottom line is that it's a gamble and buying Bitcoins is a better gamble period.

[ericdc30]

I would bet that BFL ships before Cointerra.

Mainly because BFL is dead as a company if they fail at delivering the Monarch roughly on schedule.

[xstr8guy]

Doesn't look good for Cointerra to pull a scam like that. If I had money invested in a rig I would take it out now!

Please people don't do mining preorders buy Bitcoins already! Start doing your math before getting into this preorder bs. When the time is right you can make money with hardware but now is not the time. Mining hardware progression will stabilize at 28nm you have plenty of time to buy into the next gen.

You don't have to do preorders to get a good return. Many of you will end up regretting this and perhaps some will actually get lucky and get your gear on time.

Anyway the bottom line is that it's a gamble and buying Bitcoins is a better gamble period.

Right!  Buy Bitcoins at the height of the bubble.  Good advice.   

[plasmoske]

Right!  Buy Bitcoins at the height of the bubble.  Good advice.  

Said everyone when it was at $5$ $10$ $15 $20 $30 $50 $70 $100 $130 $150 $180 $200 ......... $300 $330 $350 $390 $400 $420 $440

[DPoS]

Tier-3 compliant data center with 99.98% uptime guarantee.

more brochure bullshit to appeal to the greedy middle manager types...  their target market all along

THEY WILL NEVER SHIP A MINER!!!!

[Bicknellski]

I would bet that BFL ships before Cointerra.

Mainly because BFL is dead as a company if they fail at delivering the Monarch roughly on schedule.

BFL timeline for Monarch is April at least 19 weeks if you add up all the things they have to do. They are roughly behind schedule as they said they would ship this year. They said tapeout would be August. They are already 3 months behind... can we now put BFL in the FAILED to deliver the Monarch on time category?

[Bicknellski]

Right!  Buy Bitcoins at the height of the bubble.  Good advice.  

Said everyone when it was at $5$ $10$ $15 $20 $30 $50 $70 $100 $130 $150 $180 $200 ......... $300 $330 $350 $390 $400 $420 $440

Highlighted the prices I bought BTC at. Has worked for me so far. Bought at the last "bubble".

[ericdc30]

Doesn't look good for Cointerra to pull a scam like that. If I had money invested in a rig I would take it out now!

Please people don't do mining preorders buy Bitcoins already! Start doing your math before getting into this preorder bs. When the time is right you can make money with hardware but now is not the time. Mining hardware progression will stabilize at 28nm you have plenty of time to buy into the next gen.

You don't have to do preorders to get a good return. Many of you will end up regretting this and perhaps some will actually get lucky and get your gear on time.

Anyway the bottom line is that it's a gamble and buying Bitcoins is a better gamble period.

Right!  Buy Bitcoins at the height of the bubble.  Good advice.   

It's not a bubble if that's what it costs to mine. But yes I agree the timing could be better.

[ericdc30]

I would bet that BFL ships before Cointerra.

Mainly because BFL is dead as a company if they fail at delivering the Monarch roughly on schedule.

BFL timeline for Monarch is April at least 19 weeks if you add up all the things they have to do. They are roughly behind schedule as they said they would ship this year. They said tapeout would be August. They are already 3 months behind... can we now put BFL in the FAILED to deliver the Monarch on time category?

If what you say is true then I would say yes.

[Bicknellski]

I would bet that BFL ships before Cointerra.

Mainly because BFL is dead as a company if they fail at delivering the Monarch roughly on schedule.

BFL timeline for Monarch is April at least 19 weeks if you add up all the things they have to do. They are roughly behind schedule as they said they would ship this year. They said tapeout would be August. They are already 3 months behind... can we now put BFL in the FAILED to deliver the Monarch on time category?

If what you say is true then I would say yes.

Go look here... and add up the weeks... and look at their original posts on when things were SUPPOSED to ship.


https://products.butterflylabs.com/homepage-new-products/300-gh-bitcoin-mining-card.html

All well documented in their forums. I don't need to be the source of the whether it is "true" it is posted on their forums.

[ericdc30]

I would bet that BFL ships before Cointerra.

Mainly because BFL is dead as a company if they fail at delivering the Monarch roughly on schedule.

BFL timeline for Monarch is April at least 19 weeks if you add up all the things they have to do. They are roughly behind schedule as they said they would ship this year. They said tapeout would be August. They are already 3 months behind... can we now put BFL in the FAILED to deliver the Monarch on time category?

If what you say is true then I would say yes.

Go look here... and add up the weeks... and look at their original posts on when things were SUPPOSED to ship.


https://products.butterflylabs.com/homepage-new-products/300-gh-bitcoin-mining-card.html

All well documented in their forums. I don't need to be the source of the whether it is "true" it is posted on their forums.

I believe you. I won't look into it further since I have no plans on investing in BFL gear.

[sushi]

Hum... contract, 

Its a tricky one even the poster here listed as 90 days but the actual contract drawn by someone else at the company issued the 30 days warranty at the time of purchase.

could be a miscommunication within the company! 

I thought they were to ship next month in December.

Its hard to speculate online.  If time allows, I might go visit them in person and see whats going on!  That way, its real face to face and hope to see a demo/prototype unit at their office.  That should be a nice relaxing news for the preordered guys!

Hopefully cointerra guy will respond here and provide explanation of what happened soon!

[peterepeat]

[testerx]

Hum... contract,  

Its a tricky one even the poster here listed as 90 days but the actual contract drawn by someone else at the company issued the 30 days warranty at the time of purchase.

could be a miscommunication within the company!  

I thought they were to ship next month in December.

Its hard to speculate online.  If time allows, I might go visit them in person and see whats going on!  That way, its real face to face and hope to see a demo/prototype unit at their office.  That should be a nice relaxing news for the preordered guys!

Hopefully cointerra guy will respond here and provide explanation of what happened soon!

The contract definitely used to say 90 days as well, so it's not a matter of the representative not being right, they just up and changed the contract without telling anybody.

I'm really surprised that Cointerra still hasn't responded.  What's going on?!

[Anarchaos]

"Hey Phil, remember to update the terms and conditions page with all the new info we covered on Tuesday's meeting. Remember to change the blah blah, the blah blah blah, but the warranty stays the same at 90 days."

Phil however, was distracted by the office secretary's large breasts, and updated the wrong info on Cointerra's website.

meanwhile, on bitcointalk:

"IT'S A CONSPIRACY! BFL 2.0! THEY'RE SCREWING US! THEY'RE GOING BANKRUPT! THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS ARE LIZARDMEN, BLAAARGH"

Yes, if they changed the warranty period from 90 to 30 days, that's bad and those of us who bought from them should be pissed.

But let's at least wait until they're confirmed it until we spaz out?

It's a brand new tech startup in a relatively new field of tech development. They are bound to make a shitton of mistakes, the least of which is writing the wrong warranty info on their site.

I have personally encountered a few such errors on their website, where one page says X and another says Y.

Let's all take a deep breath, have a drink, a hit from the bong etc, and chill the fuck out.

[niothor]

It's about warranty so I guess
You're still gonna receive your rig but it will blow up somewhere between 31-90 days.

[sushi]

It's weekend in America.  Hope they will come back and update us on MONDAY!

[Bitcoinorama]

It's weekend in America.  Hope they will come back and update us on MONDAY!

Dude it's the weekend globally, only the hours differentiate!

[Zubilica]

From 90 days,  warranty was not decrease to 60 days , was increased to 60 days. What so hard to understand ?

[Flying Hellfish]

From 90 days,  warranty was not decrease to 60 days , was increased to 60 days. What so hard to understand ?

Well that clears it up nicely...

[Mattster28]

Coniterra has logged in the last few days but has yet to comment on this. Hmmmmm

[testerx]

Coniterra has logged in the last few days but has yet to comment on this. Hmmmmm

Hmmm....

[BtcBling]

http://cointerra.com/consumer-sales-agreement/

"Excusable Delay. CoinTerra shall not be liable for any delay or failure to perform due to any cause beyond its control or the control of its suppliers or subcontractors such as, for example, strikes, acts of God(or lack there of), acts of extra terrestrials, acts of Buyer, interruption of transportation or inability to obtain the necessary labor, materials or facilities. Delivery schedules shall be considered extended by a period of time equal to the time lost because of any excusable delay. In the event CoinTerra is unable wholly or partially to perform because of any such cause it may cancel its acceptance of Buyer’s order without liability to Buyer."

Is that "acts of extra terrestrials" standard term used on sales terms / warranty clauses?!
Do I understand it correctly = UFO ?!

[sushi]

I means, in America, people don't work on weekend or after 5pm...

I'm sure lots of people do work durting those hours but i was being an smart A$$

[mvidetto]

Real question is are they going to ship on-time or not...

[1l1l11ll1l]

Real question is are they going to ship on-time or not...

It's a sad day when the warranty becomes shorter than the shipping delay.

Oh wait, BFL already did that with their 1 year warranty!

[cointerra]

Apologies for any confusion regarding the warranty.

To be clear: CoinTerra's warranty on the TerraMiner is 90 days, subject to the terms and conditions presented on the web site during the checkout process.

We are in the process of reviewing and updating all materials on our web site to ensure that they are correct, as well as modifying our internal approval processes for all published materials moving forward.

If you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us: support@cointerra.com

[sushi]

See, no reasons to panic without the confirmation or official notice from the vendor.  Actually I was shocked they posted on Sunday Night!  Good Job! 

Maybe someone was destructed by the office lady's you know what   

[DPoS]

"as well as modifying our internal approval processes for all published materials moving forward."

more corp speak for those that feed on it...

[BtcBling]

Apologies for any confusion regarding the warranty.

To be clear: CoinTerra's warranty on the TerraMiner is 90 days, subject to the terms and conditions presented on the web site during the checkout process.

We are in the process of reviewing and updating all materials on our web site to ensure that they are correct, as well as modifying our internal approval processes for all published materials moving forward.

If you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us: support@cointerra.com

Great that warranty is 90 days.... but it would be good to change it also on sales terms for which customers needs to agree when checking out - just a bit more confortable!

"Warranties. CoinTerra warrants that its Product(s) will, at the time of shipment and for a period of thirty (30) days thereafter, be free from defects in material and workmanship, be free of all liens and encumbrances, and will conform to CoinTerra’s approved specifications."

[FCTaiChi]

I'm not sure Cointerra is a mining equipment manufacturer anymore...  No ad hominem in a clarification after being roughly accused, and they are sticking to their word??

[iCEBREAKER]

I'm not sure Cointerra is a mining equipment manufacturer anymore...  No ad hominem in a clarification after being roughly accused, and they are sticking to their word??

Cointerra is a marketing company.  Fulfilling their blue-sky promises of magical hardware is a poorly executed afterthought.

I'll be shocked (and impressed) if they can get their chips to actually run at ~1GHz for over 90 days without melting.

[iCEBREAKER]

"as well as modifying our internal approval processes for all published materials moving forward."

more corp speak for those that feed on it...

Nice one Cointerra; I love KorporateSpeek!

Consider it stolen.

Good thing Cointerra's core competence (KorporateSpeek) is still going strong, since the whole "building ASICs" thing isn't working out for them.   

[MadHasher]

Never give out money to a company which uses "Easy Money" as their miner's ads catchphrase.

[aerobatic]

Cointerra is a marketing company.  Fulfilling their blue-sky promises of magical hardware is a poorly executed afterthought.

I'll be shocked (and impressed) if they can get their chips to actually run at ~1GHz for over 90 days without melting.

Clueless trolling, as usual.

You seem to think its somehow a stretch that Cointerra's asics will run at 1 Ghz.

Clearly its passed you by that most of the newer generation 28nm asics run at 1 Ghz... and that 1 Ghz is probably the new baseline clock freq for 28nm and beyond... and any 28nm asics that can't run at 1 Ghz probably won't be competitive as you can only really dial in two things...  How many hash engines you have, and how fast you can clock it... and the consensus seems to be that 1 Ghz is the right clock frequency ballpark to run for hashing.  If you run any slower you have to have more hash engines to compete, which probably puts up the cost.

Bitmine's CoinCraft clocks at 1 Ghz.   https://bitmine.ch/?p=2049

Blackarrow's Minion clocks at >1 Ghz.   http://www.blackarrowsoftware.com/store/minion.html

[iCEBREAKER]

Clueless trolling, as usual.

You seem to think its somehow a stretch that Cointerra's asics will run at 1 Ghz.

Clearly its passed you by that most of the newer generation 28nm asics run at 1 Ghz... and that 1 Ghz is probably the new baseline clock freq for 28nm and beyond... and any 28nm asics that can't run at 1 Ghz probably won't be competitive as you can only really dial in two things...  How many hash engines you have, and how fast you can clock it... and the consensus seems to be that 1 Ghz is the right clock frequency ballpark to run for hashing.  If you run any slower you have to have more hash engines to compete, which probably puts up the cost.

Bitmine's CoinCraft clocks at 1 Ghz.   https://bitmine.ch/?p=2049

Blackarrow's Minion clocks at >1 Ghz.   http://www.blackarrowsoftware.com/store/minion.html

I don't really think "clueless" is the right word to describe someone who has been here almost two years long than you, Sir Jez.

You don't need to tell me about Bitmine/Blackarrow's chips either; I already know all about them.  Hint: neither of them are actually hashing yet.

Cointerra's chip is far larger than those two, hence my suspicion it may not meet its ambitious spec'd clock speed of 1GHz+.

[aerobatic]

Clueless trolling, as usual.

You seem to think its somehow a stretch that Cointerra's asics will run at 1 Ghz.

Clearly its passed you by that most of the newer generation 28nm asics run at 1 Ghz... and that 1 Ghz is probably the new baseline clock freq for 28nm and beyond... and any 28nm asics that can't run at 1 Ghz probably won't be competitive as you can only really dial in two things...  How many hash engines you have, and how fast you can clock it... and the consensus seems to be that 1 Ghz is the right clock frequency ballpark to run for hashing.  If you run any slower you have to have more hash engines to compete, which probably puts up the cost.

Bitmine's CoinCraft clocks at 1 Ghz.   https://bitmine.ch/?p=2049

Blackarrow's Minion clocks at >1 Ghz.   http://www.blackarrowsoftware.com/store/minion.html

I don't really think "clueless" is the right word to describe someone who has been here almost two years long than you, Sir Jez.

You don't need to telly me about Bitmine/Blackarrow's chips either; I already know all about them.  Hint: neither of them are actually hashing yet.

Cointerra's chip is far larger than those two, hence my suspicion it may not meet its ambitious spec'd clock speed of 1GHz+.

IceTroll

i think you've proven you can be clueless no matter how long you've been here, icebreaker, old chum.  in fact, it must suck to have been here two years longer than me, and yet be so dumb!

cointerra's chip is pretty similar to some of the other architectures you may already be familiar with... knc and hashfasts and probably some of the others, just a multi-die module on a substrate.  I'm sure you're familiar with the idea, old chum.  except knc executed well and hashfast , well er, not as well.  it'll be interesting to see which way cointerra goes, whether they have designed their substrates properly like knc, or not.

since they've taped out, you've no need to worry your trolly little self whether it performs as advertised.  these guys are professionals..!

[bitsalame]

I wonder if they are as professional as you, calling names to other forum users. Great PR.
Btw, the fact remains: the terms were changed, that's a big no-no.

[DPoS]

since they've taped out, you've no need to worry your trolly little self whether it performs as advertised.  these guys are professionals..!

there are a few angel investors of cointerra that are already happy to grab their take of the pre-order pie....  whether they also end up mining with anything, well that would be icing on the cake

they already won since refunds ain't happening so they can sit back in these threads and push patience forever

[maursader]

Relax guys. Cointerra so far hasn't shown any signs of being unable to ship. I called them and left a voicemail, and a guy named John over there called me back and spent a good 30 minutes on the phone with me answering every question I had asked. Unfortunately since the december/january batches are sold out, I'm no longer interested in buying a cointerra miner. But yeah, just relax, 30 days is plenty of time to make your money back on your investment if you're one of the lucky few who ordered first. So after that.. you can always buy warranty repair and continue to reap the rewards. Otherwise, you can always sell your cointerra 2th/s miner to me! =D

[niothor]

Icebreaker posting here means only one thing
Cointerra is on track HF is having problems.

[wickedgoodtrader]

How big are their batches?

[Sitarow]

How big are their batches?

I would like to know that also.

Would help predict future network difficulty.

[aerobatic]

How big are their batches?

I would like to know that also.

Would help predict future network difficulty.

we'd all like to know that.  Death & Taxes has done some attempted estimates in another thread somewhere.   These are inaccurate due to delays, but the numbers seem sensible.

Since BitFury and KnC are currently shipping, they're currently the main bulk providers of hashing power.  And BFL of course.   And then along will come Hashfast, and soon after CoinTerra, BitMine, BlackArrow, etc...  we only know what each company announced, NOT what they've ordered...

[cxz]

Where is my refund cointerra? Been waiting since February with no update. You just ignore all my emails and voicemails. Scam terra more like. Refund your customers. 

[edgar]

Also waiting - SIX WEEKS NOW with no refund and almost NO response to emails!!!!

[edgar]

Just thought i'd add here, KnC coughed up my refund on the 27th.


i know its kinda off topic but there it is.

[RoadStress]

Offtopic: iCEBREAKER     Last Active:    May 16, 2014, 01:26:30 AM

Is he Eduardo or not?