Bitcoin Price Drop

[Zman0101]

Anyone else getting a little nervous on how low the coin is getting for USD? Do you think it will go back up?

[1714120234]

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[crispy]

As I say when the stock market goes down: "Looks like a buying opportunity!"

[Xephan]

Anyone else getting a little nervous on how low the coin is getting for USD? Do you think it will go back up?

Not me, since I had expected the price to go much lower before stabilizing and made my mining investment decision (not to invest in hardware) based on a 2% slide every week in BTC price as well as 1% slide in USD value.

Heck if it gets low enough, I might actually be able to buy BTC cheaper than mining even after the cross-border bank taxes

[dayfall]

I am not nervous at all.  I might be disappointed that I am not filthy rich, but unless something better comes along bitcoin will be used at any price.

I do feel sorry for general users, because they must be very unhappy for not being able to buy bitcoins for fear that the value will continue to fall. 

[Rassah]

Price goes up, "Not buying! Early adopters got all benefit!"
Price goes down, "Not buying! I'm worried price will keep falling!"

seems like we're still in early adopter stage. Not surprised price is so low, considering all the issues in the last two months.

[OmegaNemesis28]

I made a mistake of buying bitcoins back when they were at $13.5
It's down to $11.5 now and would've been a better investment. Oh well. Not too big of a loss, hopefully they go up. I might actually invest more.

[bitebitebite]

 So glad I bought at $13 yesterday lol

[Zman0101]

Yeah but why the sudden drop all of a sudden ?

[pekv2]

I don't really understand the markets enough yet. Why are they dropping so low? & Are they going to drop even lower or going to rise up in a few months?

[SgtSpike]

Inching towards the break-even point in my mining operations...

[Transisto]

Yeah but why the sudden drop all of a sudden ?

incredible opportunity ,,, 12.33 is below cost...

Maybe the move to new forum URL cause insecurity for some

[valam]

this is btc from mybitcoin

[jackjack]

this is btc from mybitcoin

Quite possible

[tsvekric]

this is btc from mybitcoin

Quite possible

if that's the case (and it seems likely) we should all be collectively dropping our prices a bit, because that asshole will probably take any price he can get.

[SgtSpike]

this is btc from mybitcoin

It could be, but several of the people who have sent BTC to addresses for their mybitcoin accounts have noted that the funds have not been moved from those addresses.

[Transisto]

borked vm = price up  ... slightly

exposing risk of bitcoin lost = price down

huge amount of stolen bitcoin, = DOWN

[valam]

but we will be wise 
and felt the full force of BTC

everything that happens for the best...

[kiwiasian]

Is today just some magical day for everyone to cash out or did something actually happen

[Miner99er]

Miners have bills that need to be paid.

[kiwiasian]

It takes a lot to move us down a dollar in 24 hours.

[Cluster2k]

Miners have bills that need to be paid.

There's also the strong whiff of 'sell now, before it gets worse' going around.  Why not sell at $12.50 if BTC is heading towards $10?

Although I strongly believe BTC is heading much lower while it scrambles to find a real use (apart from Silk Road), I also think current events in the USA are having an impact on BTC's value.  Some people like to believe BTC is decoupled from the general economy and that it's the 'better' currency', but the recent US debt turmoil and last night's 2%+ DJI fall must be having a general confidence impact.

[johnyj]

Bitcoin is just too difficult to use in daily life, especially that terrible account number which is constantly changing, will scare most of the users who is get used to a fixed bank account number in decades.

[hank]

I don't think any money from MYBITCOIN has been sold off, but it's sudden disappearance has probably caused many people to lose confidence in other online wallets and services.

Silk Road Anon probably has something to do with it. It hit the news around June 1st (http://www.google.com/trends?q=%22silk+road%22&ctab=0&geo=all&date=ytd&sort=0). Give people 5 days or so to link their bank accounts to Dwolla and they're all buying on June 6th and Bitcoin reaches ~30USD because of the frenzy. The drop in value is the dealers selling back their BTC for USD over the following month.

Once people start to see the price dropping week to week they hold off buying more BTC to see how low the price can get.

[Xephan]

this is btc from mybitcoin

It could be, but several of the people who have sent BTC to addresses for their mybitcoin accounts have noted that the funds have not been moved from those addresses.

How would they know this if we don't need to use the same address to send coins? Or are all transactions trackable because it's actually Address A (original receiving address) -> Address B (New sending adress), then Address B -> Address C (consolidating address) ?

[Serith]

this is btc from mybitcoin

It could be, but several of the people who have sent BTC to addresses for their mybitcoin accounts have noted that the funds have not been moved from those addresses.

How would they know this if we don't need to use the same address to send coins? Or are all transactions trackable because it's actually Address A (original receiving address) -> Address B (New sending adress), then Address B -> Address C (consolidating address) ?

That is correct. Every single fund split or move could be extracted from block chain, that's why use of consolidating address e.g. donation signatures creates fund movement loops and hurts everyone's privacy by making it easier to identify someone's spendings.

Prior to performing the analyses above, we expected the user network to be largely composed of disjoint trees representing Bitcoin flows between one-time public-keys that were not linked with other public-keys. However, our analyses reveal that the user network has considerable cyclic structure.

An Analysis of Anonymity in the Bitcoin System

[amincd]

This should be moved to speculation.

[S3052]

prices just broke through a major , supporting chart tredline.
That move was anticipated in my technical analysis to my subscribers already monday morning
Further downside is likely unless this trendline is claimed back.

[Xephan]

this is btc from mybitcoin

It could be, but several of the people who have sent BTC to addresses for their mybitcoin accounts have noted that the funds have not been moved from those addresses.

How would they know this if we don't need to use the same address to send coins? Or are all transactions trackable because it's actually Address A (original receiving address) -> Address B (New sending adress), then Address B -> Address C (consolidating address) ?

That is correct. Every single fund split or move could be extracted from block chain, that's why use of consolidating address e.g. donation signatures creates fund movement loops and hurts everyone's privacy by making it easier to identify someone's spendings.

Prior to performing the analyses above, we expected the user network to be largely composed of disjoint trees representing Bitcoin flows between one-time public-keys that were not linked with other public-keys. However, our analyses reveal that the user network has considerable cyclic structure.

An Analysis of Anonymity in the Bitcoin System

Thanks for the confirmation and link to that paper

[HappyFunnyFoo]

As the clueless public loses interest in bitcoin (it was FOTM for a while back in June though!) price will drop, since bitcoin price is directly causally related to its popularity in google trends.

Bye bye investment, suckers You should've gotten out when I told you to at $20-$25 a coin.  Playing with fire, non-traders playin' with fire....

[Babylon]

Bitcoin is just too difficult to use in daily life, especially that terrible account number which is constantly changing, will scare most of the users who is get used to a fixed bank account number in decades.

you can use the same account number every time if you so desire.  Changing your number is useful to know who has sent you money and also for anonymity.

[jagminer2]

question of the day, sell @ $11 a BC or tough it out and wait for a rebound.

[Rassah]

question of the day, sell @ $11 a BC or tough it out and wait for a rebound.

Tough it out until Friday and sell for less!

[epii]

prices just broke through a major , supporting chart tredline.
That move was anticipated in my technical analysis to my subscribers already monday morning
Further downside is likely unless this trendline is claimed back.

I used to stand by S3052, but I call bullshit.  Every projection he's made for weeks has said, "Bitcoin is almost definitely going up!" with a tiny caveat, "(but it could also, you know, go down)".  His analyses are unfalsifiable.  He claims victory every time.

If he told his subscribers a crash is nigh as of Monday, than he was feeding us misinformation in his public analysis with:

Longterm: UP.
Midterm: UP as long as the 9.5 $ – 10 $ range holds
Shortterm: UP from the 11$ or 12.5 $ lows.

[ploum]

I used to stand by S3052, but I call bullshit.  Every projection he's made for weeks has said, "Bitcoin is almost definitely going up!" with a tiny caveat, "(but it could also, you know, go down)".  His analyses are unfalsifiable.  He claims victory every time.

Isn't that what we call "economical science".

[Omega0255]

This is it guys. Time to bail!

SELL EVERYTHING!






lol 

[S3052]

prices just broke through a major , supporting chart tredline.
That move was anticipated in my technical analysis to my subscribers already monday morning
Further downside is likely unless this trendline is claimed back.

I used to stand by S3052, but I call bullshit.  Every projection he's made for weeks has said, "Bitcoin is almost definitely going up!" with a tiny caveat, "(but it could also, you know, go down)".  His analyses are unfalsifiable.  He claims victory every time.

If he told his subscribers a crash is nigh as of Monday, than he was feeding us misinformation in his public analysis with:

Longterm: UP.
Midterm: UP as long as the 9.5 $ – 10 $ range holds
Shortterm: UP from the 11$ or 12.5 $ lows.

It was correct at that time, and was the right sequence: On Saturday, the 30th we gave the public update. On Monday, August 1, we did the in depth analysis for subscribers which provided new info.
But to explain: up from the 11$ to 12.5 lows means also that if prives fall below those levels trend changes.
On monday I have done a deep analysis and have seen that the likelyhood to break those levels has increased drmatically.
It is fair to my subscribers that they receive this alert exclusively.
They have paid a lot of money for that.
Everyone can chose to join or not.
And as always, everyone needs to make his own trading decisions.

[defxor]

On monday morning I hsve done a deep analysis

I'm quite sure my analysis beats yours Here it is: There are ASIC based mining rigs coming online right now, and there's a startup that will within a few months sell these to anyone who wants them.

An ASIC rig is mining coins at an order of magnitude cheaper than GPU rigs. Thus, the fundamentals backing bitcoin (= how cheap can a miner sell them and still make a profit) are currently dropping by a factor of ten, or so. The upside is that this is the last (CPU -> GPU -> ASIC) such disruption for the foreseeable future.

But feel free to practice your http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apophenia - it's fun to watch

[lemonginger]

By your analysis, bitcoins should have been super expensive when they were being mined by CPUs.

Mining difficulty/expense has absolutely nothing to do with the price of BTC, only the profitability of mining, since the network autocorrects to produce a known amount of coins no matter what mining power is.

BTC price is determined by demand for BTC. Nothing more, nothing less. A mining equilibrium can settle it at any bitcoin price, from .01 USD to $1000 USD (and likely will).

[defxor]

By your analysis, bitcoins should have been super expensive when they were being mined by CPUs.

No. You might want to study Bitcoin's concept of difficulty to understand why.

[epii]

By your analysis, bitcoins should have been super expensive when they were being mined by CPUs.

No. You might want to study Bitcoin's concept of difficulty to understand why.

You might want to read more than the first sentence of the guy's post before responding.

[miscreanity]

The current drop certainly has a panic sell feel to it. If this were simply due to oversupply, I'd expect a continuing gradual decline similar to what we were seeing from ~$15/BTC to ~$12/BTC. This doesn't seem to be a typical mass sell-off, though. It's more like an individual or small group of sellers with a lot of capital to dump on the markets, possibly using algorithm trading. Too much rapid probing action for me to think otherwise.

With the recent issues at MyBitcoin, I have to say that I am suspicious. However, proving this isn't my priority, nor would it matter as the damage has already been done; a waterfall was triggered. As long as the exchange remains above the $5-6/BTC level, mining remains profitable in major currencies and I wouldn't be too concerned about these growing pains. I think it is unlikely that Bitcoin will go to zero - it requires actual work to produce and cannot realistically be destroyed, much like gold. In fact, I find that BTC/NMC are very similar to gold/silver, respectively.

From loose personal observation, the Bitcoin exchange rate seems to presage major equity markets, which isn't too surprising. I imagine there are a good number of savvy financial-types taking part in this, easily capable of sophisticated technical analysis. Dabbling in the Bitcoin markets could be a form of front-running established ones.

As for the whipsaw action today, limitations of information available on overall holdings (market cap) and volume, in addition to dark pools, make it very difficult to gauge where the demand/supply will settle. Sure, lines on charts can help but they don't tell the whole story. There isn't really enough of a pattern history to determine reasonable swing ranges either. Of course, as the markets mature, these patterns will become more clear.

My view mirrors what has been suggested by others - the Bitcoin environment absolutely requires universal accessibility without needing highly technical skill, and a level of security that overcomes concerns about hacking and unscrupulous custodial services. Ideally, this would include a means of utilizing mobile devices to run the client and periodic backup of the wallet to an encrypted online location; the wallet encryption using either strong password encouragement of at least 12 characters or separate storage of the key.

Cryptography isn't my specialty, although the principle seems straightforward enough. With this ruling on identity theft, it is becoming apparent that people will need to keep their online personas and digital information much more secure than in the past. The overall cultural mood is certainly shifting toward that, so acceptance and understanding of encrypted Bitcoin wallets should be a minor hurdle.

Automation is the key. If I can install a Bitcoin client app on my Android or iPhone with the ability to make transactions (QR codes would work perfectly), check my balance and seamlessly backup/restore (even to Dropbox as long as the wallet is heavily encrypted before upload), then it's ready for prime-time. I'd even pay a few USD for the privilege - not everything Bitcoin related has to be paid for with Bitcoins until the system is mature enough to stand on its own.

To sum: hold onto your BTCs and mind the speed bump.

[defxor]

By your analysis, bitcoins should have been super expensive when they were being mined by CPUs.

No. You might want to study Bitcoin's concept of difficulty to understand why.

You might want to read more than the first sentence of the guy's post before responding.

The rest was irrelevant due to the point I singled out. Mining with CPUs wasn't a problem until GPUs came online - and since they were so much more effective that caused a disruptive shift where all CPU based mining stopped. The same will happen in the shift from GPU to ASIC.

During that transition, anyone mining with the more effective equipment can sell their coins at great profit much cheaper than everyone else - who will still have to try to offload them though to pay for electricity.

Anyone not factoring in the shift away from GPU mining right now aren't doing their homework.

[lemonginger]

The rest was irrelevant due to the point I singled out. Mining with CPUs wasn't a problem until GPUs came online - and since they were so much more effective that caused a disruptive shift where all CPU based mining stopped. The same will happen in the shift from GPU to ASIC.

I agree with you that GPU mining will eventually be made unprofitable as ASIC mining (and botnets) takes over, but that has to do with difficulty adjustments, not price adjustments. Difficulty is a lagging indicator of both price and technology available (ie; difficulty will tend to reach an equilibrium where mining with whatever technology is available is slightly profitable - which is why mining is a "race to the bottom"). However, barring cartel action by miners, price doesn't really reflect whatever technology is being used to mine bitcoins. You could blow up all the ASICs and GPUS in the world tomorrow and mining difficulty would still try to adjust to where mining was just barely profitable for most operators at whatever the current price was.

 

[cicada]

Anyone not factoring in the shift away from GPU mining right now aren't doing their homework.

Neither is anyone expecting an instant shift to ASIC mining on a large scale.  No startup is going to be able to offer cost-effective ASIC chips right out the door.

A $2000 ASIC rig that performs 1/4 as well as a $2000 GPU rig is only worthwhile in the very-long-term due to energy savings.  It's like spending $40,000 on solar panels to 'save money'.

<clairvoyancehat>
I think it will be at least 6 months before you can buy an ASIC miner at all, and it'll be a year minimum before they're cost effective
</clairvoyancehat>

Your GPUs are safe for now.

[epii]

Anyone not factoring in the shift away from GPU mining right now aren't doing their homework.

Neither is anyone expecting an instant shift to ASIC mining on a large scale.  No startup is going to be able to offer cost-effective ASIC chips right out the door.

A $2000 ASIC rig that performs 1/4 as well as a $2000 GPU rig is only worthwhile in the very-long-term due to energy savings.  It's like spending $40,000 on solar panels to 'save money'.

<clairvoyancehat>
I think it will be at least 6 months before you can buy an ASIC miner at all, and it'll be a year minimum before they're cost effective
</clairvoyancehat>

Your GPUs are safe for now.

You fail to take into account that defxor said it, and therefore it must be true.

[defxor]

I agree with you that GPU mining will eventually be made unprofitable as ASIC mining (and botnets) takes over, but that has to do with difficulty adjustments, not price adjustments

Yes, and in the meantime those who switch to ASICs can undercut everyone mining with GPUs and still make a huge profit. That creates a downward pressure on the price of bitcoins.

It's the same as in any other resource extracting market, and always happens when there's a disruptive technology shift.

I think it will be at least 6 months before you can buy an ASIC miner at all, and it'll be a year minimum before they're cost effective

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=14910.msg219049#msg219049

I don't understand what you mean with cost effective. Of course an ASIC rig will be more cost effective from the first second, the actual ROI is something else and depends as much on guesswork about the future as anything else.

You fail to take into account that defxor said it, and therefore it must be true.

Right. Imagining shapes in charts is of course much better

[mizike29]

Yeah I am pretty freaking worried and pissed, you pay 14.5 or 16 for bitcoin, its been stable for weeks at 15 to 13, now in one day drops to freaking 9 bux a coin, making it very very very hard for businesses and investors to trust the market, sell products and goods, and or trade and sell bitcoins if it is so unstable, too much of a loss.  Now I dont know if I should buy again at 9 bux or hold on to my coins and cash from coins I sold in the 15 range and see what happens, but this is a big crash for one day.

[lemonginger]

Yes, and in the meantime those who switch to ASICs can undercut everyone mining with GPUs and still make a huge profit. That creates a downward pressure on the price of bitcoins.

#1) Many more bitcoins will be in the hands of non-ASIC miners.

#2) No other resources dynamically adjust their difficulty to a fixed rate. If you get a magic gold finding machine, the gold doesn't automatically become harder to find after you use it a few times.

#3) All of the price is dependent on miners nonsense only holds true if other bitcoins were being destroyed after use so the only way you could get bitcoins was to buy from a current miner and if the difficulty of mining bitcoins didn't change with technology. It is impossible to have a major disruption in bitcoin supply. Disruptive technology may quickly drive previously profitable mining operations out of business, but it won't do jack to the BTC price which is determined by buyers and sellers. Some of those sellers are miners, many aren't.

[defxor]

#1) Many more bitcoins will be in the hands of non-ASIC miners.

Completely irrelevant. The market price is what someone - anyone - sells at. We already know not all mined coins are being sold.

#2) No other resources dynamically adjust their difficulty to a fixed rate. If you get a magic gold finding machine, the gold doesn't automatically become harder to find after you use it a few times.

The above is only relevant when everyone is using the same technology. This is the second time that won't hold true.

#3) All of the price is dependent on miners nonsense only holds true if other bitcoins were being destroyed after use so the only way you could get bitcoins was to buy from a current miner and if the difficulty of mining bitcoins didn't change with technology. It is impossible to have a major disruption in bitcoin supply. Disruptive technology may quickly drive previously profitable mining operations out of business, but it won't do jack to the BTC price which is determined by buyers and sellers. Some of those sellers are miners, many aren't.

See #1 and #2.

[lemonginger]

#1) Many more bitcoins will be in the hands of non-ASIC miners.

Completely irrelevant. The market price is what someone - anyone - sells at. We already know not all mined coins are being sold.

Correct, so even if your mythical ASIC miners are willing to sell at $2 a bitcoin, doesn't mean anyone else will be. Mining technology only affects mining profitability not bitcoin price! Not sure why you think you have proved otherwise. Did the price crash when ppl started using GPUs?

[Neptune]

#1) Many more bitcoins will be in the hands of non-ASIC miners.

Completely irrelevant. The market price is what someone - anyone - sells at. We already know not all mined coins are being sold.

Your above statement proves lemonginger's point

#2) No other resources dynamically adjust their difficulty to a fixed rate. If you get a magic gold finding machine, the gold doesn't automatically become harder to find after you use it a few times.

The above is only relevant when everyone is using the same technology. This is the second time that won't hold true.

The system is technology agnostic...it doesn't care what is being used as long as about 6BTC per hour are being produced...this is where the difficulty comes in...

[defxor]

Correct, so even if your mythical ASIC miners are willing to sell at $2 a bitcoin, doesn't mean anyone else will be

Mythical? You do know that there's at least one person using ASICs since several months back - just as he began using GPUs before everyone else?

Anyway, I don't know why you believe Bitcoin wouldn't follow free market rules but the answer is that it would indeed cause a downwards price pressure.

Did the price crash when ppl started using GPUs?

Back then people weren't as price obsessed (may - sept 2010)

http://bitcointalk.org/?topic=1009.0

edit: That is, you cannot see anything in the charts to state either way. http://bitcoinx.com/charts/

[miscreanity]

Even with the introduction of ASICs, the transition will be an incremental process, not an instantaneous event. Ramping up manufacturing, distribution and installation of custom boards will take time. Return on investment from them is delayed and scales with parallelism, just as it has with GPU mining. There is still a reasonable horizon for current miners to break even and accumulate a moderate sum of Bitcoins. In this respect, cicada is absolutely correct.

Getting too caught up in the ASIC/CPU/GPU debate can lead you to miss the big picture. It's practically irrelevant, as the natural progression is obviously CPU->GPU->ASIC->&Beyond! Bitcoin can still fail or be indefinitely relegated to niche usage regardless of which method dominates mining. The current stage of adoption is tenuous and its monetary expansion method may well prove to be too rigid.

There is also the possibility of transaction processing building as an alternative to block discovery. While this is assumed to be the end result wheEven with the introduction of ASICs, the transition will be an incremental process, not an instantaneous event. Ramping up manufacturing, distribution and installation of custom boards will take time. Return on investment from them is delayed and scales with parallelism, just as it has with GPU mining. There is still a reasonable horizon for current miners to break even and accumulate a moderate sum of Bitcoins. In this respect, cicada is absolutely correct.

Getting too caught up in the ASIC/CPU/GPU debate can lead you to miss the big picture. It's practically irrelevant, as the natural progression is obviously CPU->GPU->ASIC->&Beyond! Bitcoin can still fail or be indefinitely relegated to niche usage regardless of which method dominates mining. The current stage of adoption is tenuous and its monetary expansion method may well prove to be too rigid.

There is also the possibility of transaction processing building as an alternative to block discovery. While this is assumed to be the end result when there are very few blocks remaining to be found, there may be points where transaction fees offer greater return than mining in the very near future. Again, this is largely independent of the underlying technology.

The rate of block discovery will remain steady on average no matter what technology is used, so the pressure from that is gradual. Price pressure will remain dependent much more on external factors until prices are denominated in Bitcoins. Subjective perception is critical, as is increasing adoption and utilization.
n there are very few blocks remaining to be found, there may be points where transaction fees offer greater return than mining in the very near future. Again, this is largely independent of the underlying technology.

The rate of block discovery will remain steady on average no matter what technology is used, so the pressure from that is gradual. Price pressure will remain dependent much more on external factors until prices are denominated in Bitcoins. Subjective perception is critical, as is increasing adoption and utilization.

[Big Time Coin]

this is btc from mybitcoin

It could be, but several of the people who have sent BTC to addresses for their mybitcoin accounts have noted that the funds have not been moved from those addresses.

That's cause when the site went down, so did the bot that used to immediately send the coins to another account from the receiving account, mix them all up with a ton of small trades, and god knows what else.  If you look at your blockexplorer history for your mybitcoin receiving address you will see what I am talking about.

[SgtSpike]

this is btc from mybitcoin

It could be, but several of the people who have sent BTC to addresses for their mybitcoin accounts have noted that the funds have not been moved from those addresses.

That's cause when the site went down, so did the bot that used to immediately send the coins to another account from the receiving account, mix them all up with a ton of small trades, and god knows what else.  If you look at your blockexplorer history for your mybitcoin receiving address you will see what I am talking about.

I don't have any mybitcoin transactions to look at unfortunately (fortunately?).

[Big Time Coin]

this is btc from mybitcoin

It could be, but several of the people who have sent BTC to addresses for their mybitcoin accounts have noted that the funds have not been moved from those addresses.

That's cause when the site went down, so did the bot that used to immediately send the coins to another account from the receiving account, mix them all up with a ton of small trades, and god knows what else.  If you look at your blockexplorer history for your mybitcoin receiving address you will see what I am talking about.

I don't have any mybitcoin transactions to look at unfortunately (fortunately?).

here's my mybitcoin wallet address:
http://blockexplorer.com/address/15qEeifQfkkgThE81PzaZsEkA79dvaMMXE

[SgtSpike]

this is btc from mybitcoin

It could be, but several of the people who have sent BTC to addresses for their mybitcoin accounts have noted that the funds have not been moved from those addresses.

That's cause when the site went down, so did the bot that used to immediately send the coins to another account from the receiving account, mix them all up with a ton of small trades, and god knows what else.  If you look at your blockexplorer history for your mybitcoin receiving address you will see what I am talking about.

I don't have any mybitcoin transactions to look at unfortunately (fortunately?).

here's my mybitcoin wallet address:
http://blockexplorer.com/address/15qEeifQfkkgThE81PzaZsEkA79dvaMMXE

Those are coins you lost?

I guess there's no way to know whether they went to an exchange address or not though, just that they were moved to a different address.  

EDIT:  Actually, looks like they're stuck as part of the balance here:  http://blockexplorer.com/address/1CCYXczyjvPfRxcppV3Pzg8ppyYxQi49Lw

[walidzohair]

Miners have bills that need to be paid.

+1