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Author Topic: My review of Avalon 841 .  (Read 16975 times)
taserz
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April 30, 2018, 07:49:06 AM
Last edit: May 01, 2018, 12:49:51 AM by frodocooper
 #41

I would not run it in the mid 90s. Your solar array that has the air at 95F should not be running any current asic miner at full speed up there it is to hot. You will damage the asic running it in that temp for a few days. It might not happen right away but it will severely change the longevity of the device. (take it from someone that run a bunch in the mid 90s for science) 85F or lower is what you want.



Moderator's note: This post was edited by frodocooper to remove an unnecessary quote.

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April 30, 2018, 12:42:37 PM
Last edit: April 30, 2018, 01:16:46 PM by philipma1957
 #42

is that worth buying it?

Well it is a good question.  It would be an issue  if you can not cool the gear.  even  the max temp allowed to run the gear 30c or 86f

https://canaan.io/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/841-datasheet-1.pdf





resulted  in  1545 watts used vs 1366  at 67f

So  87f = 1545 watts
and 67f = 1366 watts

This means I can not put 20 in my solar array  which will go well into the 90's in the summer.

But even if you run  at 85f  you are eating  150 to 180 extra watts.

If I get 10 or 20 of these I need my buyers to know the heat limits.

To be fair the spec page shows 30c as the max  it also shows a +- 20 %  range which we know know is dependent on heat in your mining room.

Part of my job it to try to show what you would be getting into if I sold gear to you or if you buy from a builder.

@ taserz   the only gear  I can run safely in the array in the summer :

 the old  s-9 set to lower freq
the L3+   set to lower freq
the dragonmint T1  set to efficiency and with -ck's throttling  feature when gear gets hot.

the last youtube I did  stunned  me  I dropped the room temp from  87f to 76f by opening my garage doors  and watts dropped from 1545 to 1425 in well under 8 minutes as the room cooled.


Today it is 48 f.  I am going to test this again. Using a 2450 watt hp psu.

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April 30, 2018, 01:46:32 PM
 #43

So I read the spec sheet  and it say the gear can be as cold as 0c

You ran as cold as 67f which is 19.4 c

You did 0.1004  or 1366 watts and 13603 gh.

So then this gear would be a beast in a cold room.

Your array  is a loft in a converted barn  with rain and heat shielding.

It would be great for the 841 starting in Oct and up to Apr.
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April 30, 2018, 01:51:49 PM
 #44

So I read the spec sheet  and it say the gear can be as cold as 0c

You ran as cold as 67f which is 19.4 c

You did 0.1004  or 1366 watts and 13603 gh.

So then this gear would be a beast in a cold room.

Your array  is a loft in a converted barn  with rain and heat shielding.

It would be great for the 841 starting in Oct and up to Apr.

yes it would be really good for 6 to 7 months a year.

Actually  my opinion is  a firmware tweak  that allows a true  freq downclock  for hot mining  fixes this gear.

It really needs an option  like that

I am letting it   get hot again


Temperature©----------Fan
36 / 82_____________5550RPM / 100%

and the room is up to 82f   

 I want to   do this test again and see what result. I get with the hp 2450 watt psu I have.

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April 30, 2018, 03:55:45 PM
 #45

My biggest concern would really come down to how the Warranty would be affected by running these miners above the stated 30C.

If the numbers at 30C as printed are only for the benefit of showcasing the optimal performance temperature ranges, then I would have no problem with the Miner. My electrical costs could support the increased usage at the higher temperature ranges. I only get maybe 1 day a year above 40C.

I understand though the concerns for others with Margins being slimmer and overall temperatures being warmer longer.

Good job with all the testing, very informative.


*snipped*
resulted  in  1545 watts used vs 1366  at 67f

So  87f = 1545 watts
and 67f = 1366 watts

This means I can not put 20 in my solar array  which will go well into the 90's in the summer.

But even if you run  at 85f  you are eating  150 to 180 extra watts.


To be fair the spec page shows 30c as the max  it also shows a +- 20 %  range which we know know is dependent on heat in your mining room.


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April 30, 2018, 04:12:35 PM
Last edit: May 01, 2018, 12:55:32 AM by frodocooper
 #46

My biggest concern would really come down to how the Warranty would be affected by running these miners above the stated 30C.

If the numbers at 30C as printed are only for the benefit of showcasing the optimal performance temperature ranges, then I would have no problem with the Miner. My electrical costs could support the increased usage at the higher temperature ranges. I only get maybe 1 day a year above 40C.

I understand though the concerns for others with Margins being slimmer and overall temperatures being warmer longer.

Good job with all the testing, very informative.

Well these are a no go in the solar array loft

solar array with  heat shield
https://i.imgur.com/04JHz00.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/dZLTmCj.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/5em72rF.jpg

a more updated video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKlXarvBv5M

I run 3 to 4 f lower then outside temps during the summer.

so  when it gets to 90 or 91f  I would be over the 86f or 30 c recommended.

Even at 82 or 83 f intake air  power use is up more then 110 watts then 67f or 19.4c

Of course when fall comes and temps are under 70f all the time this gear would really be efficient.

I suspect if I could run it in a 50f or 10c room  which I could do for fall and winter  I could get as low as 0.095 watts a gh maybe less.



Moderator's note: This post was edited by frodocooper to remove a nested quote.

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April 30, 2018, 04:37:38 PM
 #47

This setting --avalon8-voltage-level-offset has no effect on mining speed so I set --avalon8-voltage-level +3 with results and it loos like +5 is the default setting.

around a 1000GHs drop and a slight temperature drop.

13204.45
30/70

13447.80
29/74

13630.70
29/74

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April 30, 2018, 06:39:37 PM
 #48

This setting --avalon8-voltage-level-offset has no effect on mining speed so I set --avalon8-voltage-level +3 with results and it loos like +5 is the default setting.

around a 1000GHs drop and a slight temperature drop.

13204.45
30/70

13447.80
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13630.70
29/74

GHSav
39591.71

I'm not sure you are seeing what you think you are... the value range that the controller works with is -2 to +1, a +3 or +5 will return an error and either default to 0 or not start.

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April 30, 2018, 06:46:12 PM
Last edit: May 01, 2018, 12:58:20 AM by frodocooper
 #49

I think there is a flaw here in what numbers are being thrown around.

you will notice that a 30C inlet temperature is *NOT* a 30C room temp.  In fact, my room is 75f and my inlet temps are 30-31C.... Also my outlet temps are 75-77C (on a -1 undervolt).

The inlet temp really has nothing to do with what room temp you should or shouldn't run a miner in, the OUTLET temp has *everything* to do with it.

The only reason Canaan provides an inlet temp is because - of course there is a relationship of inlet to outlet.  But I suspect if you can keep the outlet to less than 80C, you don't care what the inlet temp is.

I just went and looked at the code again, the shutdown temp is 105C (outlet) the fan moderation temp is 70C (but that will only do anything in a cold room and if you changed the max fan speed from the 100% that all 8 series come shipped with.)



Moderator's note: This post was edited by frodocooper to remove an unnecessary quote.
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April 30, 2018, 08:07:07 PM
Last edit: May 01, 2018, 12:59:51 AM by frodocooper
 #50

This setting --avalon8-voltage-level-offset has no effect on mining speed so I set --avalon8-voltage-level +3 with results and it loos like +5 is the default setting.
I'm not sure you are seeing what you think you are... the value range that the controller works with is -2 to +1, a +3 or +5 will return an error and either default to 0 or not start.

With a setting of --avalon8-voltage-level +6 and it does work, I set it back to +2 after that screenshot so it will run cool, so the setting absolutly does work







Moderator's note: This post was edited by frodocooper to reduce the size of the embedded images.

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April 30, 2018, 08:25:43 PM
Last edit: May 01, 2018, 01:02:39 AM by frodocooper
Merited by suchmoon (2), DarkStar_ (2), HagssFIN (1), Steamtyme (1), frodocooper (1)
 #51

With a setting of --avalon8-voltage-level +6 and it does work, I set it back to +2 after that screenshot so it will run cool, so the setting absolutly does work

[...]

WHOA, stop the presses, you are playing with the *wrong* setting.  The actual setting should be --avalon8-voltage-level-offset -1, not -avalon8-voltage-level.  The later has a range of -10 to +10, but it is NOT the undervoltage setting.  The undervolt setting has a range of -2 to +1 and as you see in the code below setting *it* to anything more than +1 does nothing.

And you *have* to put the undervolt setting in the more options line, even though it's in the UI, the setting in the UI does nothing as you have determined, it always defaults to 0.  But if you put it in the more options line, it will work.

Here is the code for the undervolt.

Code:
char *set_avalon8_voltage_level_offset(char *arg)
{
       int val, ret;

       ret = sscanf(arg, "%d", &val);
       if (ret < 1)
               return "No value passed to avalon8-voltage-level-offset";

       if (val < AVA8_DEFAULT_VOLTAGE_LEVEL_OFFSET_MIN || val > AVA8_DEFAULT_VOLTAGE_LEVEL_OFFSET_MAX)
               return "Invalid value passed to avalon8-voltage-level-offset";

       opt_avalon8_voltage_level_offset = val;

       return NULL;
}

And here are the defines

Code:
#define AVA8_DEFAULT_VOLTAGE_LEVEL_OFFSET_MIN -2
#define AVA8_DEFAULT_VOLTAGE_LEVEL_OFFSET 0
#define AVA8_DEFAULT_VOLTAGE_LEVEL_OFFSET_MAX 1

If it's set higher that +1, it just throws an error and defaults to 0.

But I'd be very careful playing with the setting you are playing with, I have no idea what it does.



Moderator's note: This post was edited by frodocooper to trim the quote from Megaquake.
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April 30, 2018, 09:06:29 PM
Merited by philipma1957 (3)
 #52

I would like to add that my power usage at the wall for one miner was 1230-1260 watts @ 13181.97GHS 240.2 volts with the setting --avalon8-voltage-level +2 and --avalon8-voltage-level-offset 0 with temperature at 32/76c

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April 30, 2018, 09:35:45 PM
Last edit: May 01, 2018, 12:02:28 AM by philipma1957
 #53

okay right now I am doing
 1545 watts
13635 hash

room temp is 86/87
__________________________________
temp c
40/89

 https://i.imgur.com/PMTTmto.png

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

Voltage Offset(Default: 0)

Minimum Fan%(Range: 0-100, Default: 10%)

API Allow(Default: W:127.0.0.1)

More Options

https://i.imgur.com/F7CajMS.png

#################################
#################################

so at the room temp of 86/87  my power use is  terrible it is 1545 watts

If I open all doors  to the outside dropping my room temps  those watts  drop  fast real fast  and hash stays the same.

But this won't work in the summer.  if it is 95f.  today it works as it is 55f.


So I am going to set

--avalon8-voltage-level +1

not --avalon8-voltage-level-offset -2

my reasoning is  that currently 13640 hash at 1545 watts in an 86/87f room is not going to be worth doing.



edit

megaquake's setting does work for me

I get 12968  and watts are 1492  in a warm room of 86/87f


bigger edit


  --avalon8-voltage-level -1

works!!!

oh the machine has turned in to a goddess of under clock yeah baby!

numbers are fucking great.

Going to do a you tube.

megaquake is a fucking genius.  pointed me in the correct direction.


Sent him some merit points.

pretty sure  this setting will protect miner from a hot space during the summer.

So if you air cool  your gear this miner would need the under clock during hot spells

latest you tube   got good results megaquake  is correct his setting works

look how low it is .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvWXJTYrW9o

this should prevent summertime over heating for air cooled farms.

room temp of 67-70f     11900 hash 1178 watts
room temp of 81-82f     12141 hash 1308 watts
room temp of 83-84f     12295 hash 1326 watts  Temperature© 35 / 78   these are safe numbers

room temp of 86f           12591 hash 1348watts Temperature© 37/80    still safe  note the watts per gh are 0.107 spec is 0.099  but 86f is max room temp recommended  I believe with this lower setting you can do more then 86f  this setup is 197 watts less power and hash dropped a about 1000gh.  getting that 1000h and spending 200 watts is not what I would do.




this is  from the process tab look for the info below

4249
root
cgminer --lowmem --avalon8-fan 60-100 --avalon8-voltage-level-offset 0 -o stratum+tcp://pool.ckpool.org:333 -O 16yLHLoeyuCLPMXkVpC3gyrRYvwRGwjKJr.100:x -o stratum+tcp://mmpool.org:3333 -O philipma1957.A:1234 -o stratum+tcp://us1.bitminter.com:3333 -O philipma1957_west2:x --api-allow W:127.0.0.1 --api-listen --avalon8-voltage-level -1 --real-quiet
0%
0%



 
I tested the three below


--avalon8-voltage-level -1   works really well for me.

 --avalon8-voltage-level +1 did not start
 --avalon8-voltage-level +2 works

the key is to get a low one for hot temp days.

I will try

--avalon8-voltage-level -2  just because I think it would bullet proof miner on hottest days we have in NJ

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May 01, 2018, 12:12:30 AM
 #54

   So Phil  as you can guess I live in New York, Duchess county.
I am  Blessed with cooler weather from Oct 1 to May 1. I have a garage with 2 exhaust fans so I should be able to stock up on a few of these  run them lower until Oct 1 then crank them up correct?
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May 01, 2018, 12:16:18 AM
Last edit: May 01, 2018, 03:32:48 AM by philipma1957
 #55

  So Phil  as you can guess I live in New York, Duchess county.
I am  Blessed with cooler weather from Oct 1 to May 1. I have a garage with 2 exhaust fans so I should be able to stock up on a few of these  run them lower until Oct 1 then crank them up correct?

Exactly so.

As  they will do 12600  for the summer  at 1350 watts. On the lower clock megaquake and I figured out
Then do  13600 for the fall and winter at 1325 watts on the stock clock.

If you are In Florida and like the Miami Marlins they may not be the best choice unless  you are going to use some ac.



It will be warmer tomorrow  I  will push the unit  past the 90f point  to see how high watts go.


--avalon8-voltage-level +2   good helps megaquake's suggestion

--avalon8-voltage-level -1    great helps more  I tested it

--avalon8-voltage-level -2   not tested even better

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May 01, 2018, 02:01:26 AM
 #56

Phil,  great work and vids but you can really make use of the north east cool weather by pointing the intakes to an open window with a small fan (computer case fan) between the intake and the screen of the window for each miner.  The fans will bring in cool air and really run these at low temps.  The miner fans will run 50% or lower (I keep the fans to 50% min just in case)

Soon I will flip the miners around and just blow the hot air out the windows and use your voltage underclocks if need be

Would be great to heat the pool with these


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May 01, 2018, 03:27:52 AM
 #57

Phil,  great work and vids but you can really make use of the north east cool weather by pointing the intakes to an open window with a small fan (computer case fan) between the intake and the screen of the window for each miner.  The fans will bring in cool air and really run these at low temps.  The miner fans will run 50% or lower (I keep the fans to 50% min just in case)

Soon I will flip the miners around and just blow the hot air out the windows and use your voltage underclocks if need be

Would be great to heat the pool with these



I know lots of ways to cool off the miner when temps are cool.

But if I am to service and help it with breakdowns I need  to push test it.

I got the garage up to 94f using the

--avalon8-voltage-level -1  in the more options slot.

watts were 1406
hash was   12800   this means miner would be okay in my solar array even on a 97f temp summer day.



I am now testing  one setting lower in the same 94f garage note 94f is 8f higher then recommended


--avalon8-voltage-level -2


a few minutes in  

watts  1322
hash   12413

this is 0.1065  watts a gh in 94f  and 86f is max suggested.

It will me warm in NJ  78 tomorrow .  I hope to see  if I can get the room to 96f

https://i.imgur.com/omaVuEc.png
https://i.imgur.com/CnGjc4h.png
https://i.imgur.com/KEYmisF.png


the above links show the lower setting which  is keeping watts at 1322 hash at 12413 in a 94 f room.

SOME TIME tomorrow I will get it over 96f and it will run under 1350 watts I hope.
which is pretty good.

people should thank megaquake for finding the path to try tests on if not for him I would have stayed on a path that did not help out.

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May 01, 2018, 03:31:46 AM
 #58

How much power are you going to get out of your solar setup?  Will it be enough to run one miner at least?

I didn't think the math made any sense for the northeast to bother with solar with costs associated to it (either leasing or buying)


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May 01, 2018, 03:43:49 AM
 #59

How much power are you going to get out of your solar setup?  Will it be enough to run one miner at least?

I didn't think the math made any sense for the northeast to bother with solar with costs associated to it (either leasing or buying)




Solar array thread

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1369207.0


we can run 72 amps at 240 volts

the array is almost paid for itself.

New Jersey Is a great state for Solar energy

The array has 20 years left on its warranties.

my partner buysolar owns a solar install business



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May 01, 2018, 04:29:55 AM
 #60

I envy you guys in the US for the cool temps. I'm stuck with 30C all year Sad
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