[Large Loan Request] Will verify ID and proof of ability to pay through John K.

[JuenoMT]

I wish to take out a large BTC loan (100+ BTC w/ $600/BTC@ BTC-e, would need to increase amount if BTCs value declines by much more than this)

I am willing to provide John K. with ID information and proof of ability to pay, you would need to pay John K. his fees and include that amount into the total loan.

This can be a group loan with escrow and payments through John K.

Purpose: To purchase mining gear, I have a reserve order for a substantial amount of hashing power but need to fund the purchase.

Term: 6 months

Payment: Will start in 40 days of issue date (assuming that mining gear is delivered on time), maybe sooner if needed. Once loan is funded and dispersed I will be able to pay $400 a week as base pay, maybe able to increase to $500 if needed. Can prove ability to do this through John K.

Interest: 15% of original amount

Confidentiality is required.

All but 20 BTC can be held in escrow until ability to purchase the mining gear is completely funded with the escrow handled by John K.

Partial funding of 50% may be acceptable if I am able to get others interested.

Perhaps this can be considered to be 2 loans, one for 20 BTC and the rest as the second.

Same terms on both except total base payment can not exceed $400-500 weekly. Willing to negotiate any reasonable requests.

This is a serious request with the real ability to repay as promised assuming the mining gear arrives within the expected time frame, payment can be made at a slower pace if mining gear does not arrive on time. Payment can be made even if mining gear never arrives, it just would take longer and would be at the $400-500 a week as this income is independent from mining and is from a different source of income which is provable.

Thank you for your consideration!
JuenoMt

[Vod]

Hello, what collateral are you offering to secure this loan?

[Kouye]

I will be able to pay $400 a week as base pay

I'm not sure to understand.
Are you offering a life-time 400$/week after the 100BTC loan is repayed ? (in BTC?)

So if I loan 100 BTC to you today, the following happens:
- in 40 days, you begin paying 400$ per week
- in 6 months, you repay 100BTC
- in 6 months, I got my full 100BTC back and a life-time payment of 400$/week

Did I get this right?

Of course, I also considered the other options which included you repaying a loan of 100BTC at a rate of 400$/week, but that clearly does not fit in a 6 months timeframe.
Not mentionning holding the 100 BTC would be so much more profitable than lending to you, at the current growth rate.

[JuenoMT]

Hello, what collateral are you offering to secure this loan?

I can offer the mining hardware itself as collateral. If your asking if I can secure a loan with funds that I already have then there would be no such security. If I had the funds I wouldn't need the loan.

I do have an account with a certain company that generates a consistent amount of cash money everyday. Current earnings are less than enough to cover the promised payments but I can increase the revenue to more than enough to cover the indicated payment amount with a portion of the first 20 BTC (which is part of the reason I would need the 20 BTC seperately.). I would be willing to give John K. complete control over the account including the resetting of the password and email account to allow him to manage payments, although doing this would be a daily task on John K.'s part, so I am sure that it would increase the cost of the loan so terms may need to be changed to adjust.

Additionally, once the loan was completely funded and dispersed I would be more than willing to let John K. share all of the details with the loan provider so long as the loan provider was willing to reveal the same information and sign a confidentiality agreement, I would also agree to sign such an agreement for the loan provider as well.

Do you think that that would suffice?

[JuenoMT]

I will be able to pay $400 a week as base pay

I'm not sure to understand.
Are you offering a life-time 400$/week after the 100BTC loan is repayed ? (in BTC?)

So if I loan 100 BTC to you today, the following happens:
- in 40 days, you begin paying 400$ per week
- in 6 months, you repay 100BTC
- in 6 months, I got my full 100BTC back and a life-time payment of 400$/week

Did I get this right?

Of course, I also considered the other options which included you repaying a loan of 100BTC at a rate of 400$/week, but that clearly does not fit in a 6 months timeframe.
Not mentionning holding the 100 BTC would be so much more profitable than lending to you, at the current growth rate.

Not quite,

By base pay I mean that the payments would not be less than $400 a week during the 6 months term which would start within the first 40 days after the initial 20 BTC was dispersed. I say within the next 40 days because the payments, besides the $400 base pay, could not start until the mining gear had arrived and was generating income. I offer the minimum $400 a week as a way to ensure that the loan provider will receive some form of reasonable payment even if the mining operation does not perform as expected. The loan would be repaid at 115% in total.

And I want to be sure that it is understood that the requested amount is 100+ BTC, not just 100 BTC. I would be happy to tell any serious loan provider the exact amount in a PM, I do have a reason for this which leads me to the next paragraph.

I should also note that I will only do business with a loan provider that has a solid reputation in the bitcoin community, because I believe that such an individual would have the proper incentive to keep confidential information confidential.

As far as holding BTC as opposed to loaning BTC, that is really a decision that a potential loan provider must make for themselves. If one wants to provide a loan then one should provide a loan, if one is not comfortable providing a loan then one should not do so. In either case, neither individual should have to explain why because it is their choice to make. Just to be clear though, completion of the repayment will be in BTC and not in dollars, so holding the BTC or not the value of what you have is preserved. As stated, the $400 a week base pay is just a way to ensure the loan provider has some security that they will receive at least some form of reasonable payment.

Maybe I should also state that not all of the funds will be spent right of the bat, some of the funds must remain available as insurance against any unknown issues arising such as a PSU failure.

[Vod]

Hello, what collateral are you offering to secure this loan?

I can offer the mining hardware itself as collateral. If your asking if I can secure a loan with funds that I already have then there would be no such security. If I had the funds I wouldn't need the loan.

I do have an account with a certain company that generates a consistent amount of cash money everyday. Current earnings are less than enough to cover the promised payments but I can increase the revenue to more than enough to cover the indicated payment amount with a portion of the first 20 BTC (which is part of the reason I would need the 20 BTC seperately.). I would be willing to give John K. complete control over the account including the resetting of the password and email account to allow him to manage payments, although doing this would be a daily task on John K.'s part, so I am sure that it would increase the cost of the loan so terms may need to be changed to adjust.

Additionally, once the loan was completely funded and dispersed I would be more than willing to let John K. share all of the details with the loan provider so long as the loan provider was willing to reveal the same information and sign a confidentiality agreement, I would also agree to sign such an agreement for the loan provider as well.

Do you think that that would suffice?

The only way you could use the mining hardware as collateral would be if the hardware was kept in the lenders possession until the loan amount was recovered. Then the rigs could be sent to you.  Would you be willing to do that?

Even if you are, the chances of recovering that purchase amount on mining hardware is very doubtful with today's rising difficulty.  It would increase your chances of getting a loan if you were to ask for maybe 50% of the cost of the rig, and pay the other 50% yourself.  Then the lender is more likely to get their investment back before they ship the rigs to you.

Finally, it's not realistic to ask for 100% of a rig when the lender could just go out and purchase it himself.  

[AndrewWilliams]

How come no one understands the concept of collateral?

Don't they teach it in school anymore? 

[JuenoMT]

The only way you could use the mining hardware as collateral would be if the hardware was kept in the lenders possession until the loan amount was recovered. Then the rigs could be sent to you.  Would you be willing to do that?

It might be the 'best way' to use the mining hardware as collateral but it is not the only way. Another way would be that I am honest and could be trusted, but I understand that is an unreasonable thing to expect one to believe under these circumstances. Another way would be to have the hardware hosted by an individual that already has established trust with the community, which is something I already have arranged incase it is needed. A third independent party would be fine with me but the loan provider holding the hardware may not be anymore trustworthy than I (presumably) am. They could easily take payments for a while, then refuse to relinquish the miners and justify doing so by claiming that I didn't live up to my end of the deal. They come out of it looking like a victim while actually leaving me as the one who was taken advantage of. The potential scenarios are endless so why concentrate on only me as being the only on who could possibly be the nefarious one. If you want to protect people from abuse you need to consider both sides equally.

And besides this, I offered more than just the mining gear and I don't see you mentioning that at all? Not even a 'well that sounds nice but' kind of statement. You offer absolutely no credit to me at all for at least 'trying to be fair.'

Even if you are, the chances of recovering that purchase amount on mining hardware is very doubtful with today's rising difficulty.  It would increase your chances of getting a loan if you were to ask for maybe 50% of the cost of the rig, and pay the other 50% yourself.  Then the lender is more likely to get their investment back before they ship the rigs to you.

About the 50%, I would happily pay for half if I could but that is not the case so it is not an option. Although, I did mention something along the lines of what you stated, so I am way ahead of you on that. I already have an arrangement with someone and it is likely that at least 50% of the funds will come from other sources, the issue is that the order must be fulfilled in its entirety and not at 50% so 100% of the funds are required. And I don't necessarily agree with you on profitability, with the recent rise in the value of BTC the hardware is now cheaper (in BTC) and since we are calculating profits in BTC and not fiat money you would be mistaken. If the hardware arrives within the expected time frame then the mining equipment will make a profit in BTC. But this only remains valid if the purchase occurs while the value of BTC-to-dollar remains at its current level or higher.

Finally, it's not realistic to ask for 100% of a rig when the lender could just go out and purchase it himself. 

It might not be realistic to expect to receive 100% of the funding to purchase the mining hardware, but there is nothing unrealistic about asking. There are many reasons that a lender may not want to purchase the hardware themselves including but not limited to the fact that some people don't know anything about mining per say and don't feel that they should attempt it themselves and some people are just interested in investing into other ventures and simply don't want to bother with the hardware mess. Yet another group would be that some individuals actually want to promote bitcoin and are willing to do all kinds of things to help others to be involved. There are plenty of others who have different reasons to lend rather than mine so I don't really understand why you would want to limit your perspective solely on those who would want to mine for themselves. People make investments in all kinds of ventures, this one is no different in that respect. And as I stated, I already have support from a group of people who are likely to cover a good portion of the cost.

[Kouye]

Considering the value of bitcoin has grown from 100$ to 500$ (actually, more, but let's just assume) within the last 6 months.

If I hold 100BTC, and expect a similar pattern, I earn 200000$
If I loan 100BTC to you for 6 months, I earn 7500$

We'll call you back.

[Vod]

And besides this, I offered more than just the mining gear and I don't see you mentioning that at all? Not even a 'well that sounds nice but' kind of statement. You offer absolutely no credit to me at all for at least 'trying to be fair.'

Sorry, I didn't notice that.  The only thing that we really care about is a guarantee we will get our money back - that is collateral.

In any case, you get some respect for not immediately deleting the tough messages as you could in a "self moderated" thread.  

Good luck with the loan.

[JuenoMT]

Considering the value of bitcoin has grown from 100$ to 500$ (actually, more, but let's just assume) within the last 6 months.

If I hold 100BTC, and expect a similar pattern, I earn 200000$
If I loan 100BTC to you for 6 months, I earn 7500$

We'll call you back.

Actually, as I stated. The loan will be paid back in BTC, not USD, as the funds will be used to purchase bitcoin mining rigs. Of course this means that the purpose is to mine bitcoins not USD. According to the terms that I stated the loan provider would not only get back their 100+ BTC, but also get an additional 15+ BTC. Using your figures that would not be $200,000 it would be $230,000 which is allot different than $7500. Your estimate on the value of BTC at the moment is close enough, but, if the value declines to, say, $250 and stays there for awhile you'll have to wait for another day to see your $200,000's. No one really knows how much bitcoin will be worth in the future, could be more, could be less. But I can more or less guarantee the amount it is worth right now, and buying mining hardware with the price of BTC being as high as it currently is would be like receiving a REALLY BIG COUPON towards the purchase of mining hardware. This makes investing in mining hardware a very profitable venture, but only at BTCs current exchange rate of ~$600/BTC or higher.

Now it is your bitcoin, so you do what you think is best for you, I could not fathom holding a grudge against someone for doing what they want to do with their own property.

So, enjoy your stash of bitcoin, maybe if you hold onto it for another 15yrs it might be worth a billion dollars! Lets hope!

[JuenoMT]

And besides this, I offered more than just the mining gear and I don't see you mentioning that at all? Not even a 'well that sounds nice but' kind of statement. You offer absolutely no credit to me at all for at least 'trying to be fair.'

Sorry, I didn't notice that.  The only thing that we really care about is a guarantee we will get our money back - that is collateral.

In any case, you get some respect for not immediately deleting the tough messages as you could in a "self moderated" thread.  

Good luck with the loan.

Thanks! That means allot to me!

And buy the way, I would never delete a message for just being critical, expressing distrust or even accusing me of a scam, so long as it is (mostly) respectful. I don't mind a tongue lashing, but I won't tolerate a bloody nose. Some think that anonymity is a license to verbally abuse others and I refuse to be their target (to the extent possible.)

For respect given, I return respect. So you have earned some respect from me as well for acknowledging my (presumed) integrity.

Cheers!

[Bitlend]

Might be a decent business to start leasing out mining equipment to the miners as a lot of loan requests seem to be from miners looking to buy the mining equipment outright.

 

[JuenoMT]

Might be a decent business to start leasing out mining equipment to the miners as a lot of loan requests seem to be from miners looking to buy the mining equipment outright.

 

That's a good idea, my plan is similar. I will be using the funds to purchase the miner then I will sell shares for the miner. So I am not planing to repay the loan just on mining income, the payments will actually come from those who purchase shares for the mining hardware. I guess that would have been a very important thing to mention in the OP,  .

[markjamrobin]

Might be a decent business to start leasing out mining equipment to the miners as a lot of loan requests seem to be from miners looking to buy the mining equipment outright.

 

What about rent-a-center for Mining equipment? We can get the uneducated in on Bitcoin!

[JuenoMT]

Might be a decent business to start leasing out mining equipment to the miners as a lot of loan requests seem to be from miners looking to buy the mining equipment outright.

 

What about rent-a-center for Mining equipment? We can get the uneducated in on Bitcoin!

I think that they call that CEX.IO

[Bitlend]

Might be a decent business to start leasing out mining equipment to the miners as a lot of loan requests seem to be from miners looking to buy the mining equipment outright.

 

What about rent-a-center for Mining equipment? We can get the uneducated in on Bitcoin!

lol rent a centre.

If you reference it to say the Australian stock market (lots of mining companies in it) the mining services companies (who provide the mining equipment) have made 10 x that of the mining companies themselves in revenue less costs on a % of return scale.

The issue it seems is that a) the mining equipment only has a short mining life and b) hard to get hands on the right equipment quickly.

Overcome those two and it could be a goer.



 

[Wipeout2097]

I didn't read the whole thread so perhaps it was already mentioned ...

Some people will be interested in getting the loan back + (some Gh/s quota out of the equipment instead of the 15% you offer).

[Tomatocage]

Something to consider is letting the lenders purchase the ASICs themselves and have them mine however much BTC + interest they would have obtained. After they're done they can send you the ASICs for free (you pay shipping).

[markjamrobin]

Something to consider is letting the lenders purchase the ASICs themselves and have them mine however much BTC + interest they would have obtained. After they're done they can send you the ASICs for free (you pay shipping).

But why would anyone do this, when they can buy the ASICs, and mine with them till they are far above the payback rate?