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Poll
Question: What's your political orientation?
Libertarian - 9 (45%)
Socialist - 4 (20%)
Centrist - 1 (5%)
Other - 6 (30%)
Total Voters: 20

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Author Topic: What's your political orientation?  (Read 356 times)
iluvbitcoins
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April 26, 2018, 11:31:09 PM
 #1

I remember a couple of years ago when I was on P&S often, the section was primarily libertarian

I seem to notice a trend that's not similar to the one I enjoyed earlier.

So, I googled to see if I was mislead or not

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=9568.0

It was pretty obvious Anarchist and Libertarian dominated

I have found one from 2012
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=67929.0

But this one is still open, and I need to vote in order to see the results..

http://prntscr.com/jalv48

At first glance looks tight
But if you take a better look, you'll notice there's an option called Ronpaulism with 8 votes
You can add those 8 to Libertarianism and carry a dominant victory!

You have to note, Anarchists are mostly Libertarian, so the wins here are even more prevalent.
Let's vote to see, if the bitcoin base has changed, or has it remained the same?


EDIT: Sidenote

Do an 8values quiz
https://8values.github.io/

Screenshot your results and post them here so we can compare.
Assuming you're willing to share your beliefs.

My are:

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April 26, 2018, 11:50:59 PM
 #2

I have no idea what my political orientation is. I've been struggling for years to figure it out. Most people would probably think that makes me a centrist, but I'm unsure. I've been listening to social/political commentary from every angle that I can possible find and I still cannot pinpoint my orientation to any meaningful degree.

How do you define these things?

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April 26, 2018, 11:54:52 PM
 #3

I have no idea what my political orientation is. I've been struggling for years to figure it out. Most people would probably think that makes me a centrist, but I'm unsure. I've been listening to social/political commentary from every angle that I can possible find and I still cannot pinpoint my orientation to any meaningful degree.

How do you define these things?

Have you tried taking a quiz?
Might be helpful.

8values seems to be the most popular quiz around
https://8values.github.io/

The only negative thing I see is that Tradition is listed against Progress as in those two oppose eachother and can't go hand in hand

Looks something like this
http://prntscr.com/jam61i

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April 27, 2018, 01:05:07 AM
Merited by malevolent (1)
 #4

8values seems to be the most popular quiz around
https://8values.github.io/

The only negative thing I see is that Tradition is listed against Progress as in those two oppose eachother and can't go hand in hand

I took a quick peek through some of the questions, and I thing there may be more issues with the test than simply that mutual exclusivity that you've pointed out. The way some of them are worded are very, awkward to interpret properly and some of them are hinging upon caveats and single words that change the entire interaction with the question.

I'll go through it tonight and see where I fall, tried to do it now but 70 questions is a heap.

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April 27, 2018, 02:02:37 AM
 #5

I've relatives who think I'm too liberal and those who think I'm conservative. This would make me a moderate and the scourge of either of the other two. Personally, I consider myself as a "realist". I consider that there is what we should strive for in the future but only so much that can be done now. It's strange how we clamor for diversity and tolerance in so may other things than in political ideology.
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April 27, 2018, 02:24:37 AM
Merited by EFS (1)
 #6

The community has become less libertarian as it has expanded, which is disappointing, but not really unexpected. IMO Bitcoin is still a force for freedom regardless, though.



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April 27, 2018, 02:42:54 AM
 #7

I just finished taking the 8-values test and I am no better off than I was when I started. It also calls me a centrist, so who knows what to make of that.

My results were -
Centrist :

Economic Axis : Centrist | Equality 44.5% | Markets 55.5%
Diplomatic Axis: Patriotic | Nation 63.8% | World 36.2%
Civil Axis : Moderate | Liberty 56.9% | Authority 43.1%
Societal Axis : Progressive | Tradition 34.6% | Progress 65.4%

It seems like my strongest leanings (according to this test) are on the Diplomatic Axis, favoring my Nation, and on the Societal Axis favoring "Progress".

Take it as you will, but I'm still very much unsure about what any of it means.



IMO Bitcoin is still a force for freedom regardless, though.

With those Economics results, I would kill to pick your brain. I consider myself rather clueless on economics, and this result is interesting as hell.

The community has become less libertarian as it has expanded

Do you think the community or Bitcoin have the possibility to change minds on economics issues?

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April 27, 2018, 02:55:32 AM
 #8

The community has become less libertarian as it has expanded, which is disappointing, but not really unexpected. IMO Bitcoin is still a force for freedom regardless, though.

Indeed.
I had thought about this a few times.
Will bitcoin grow slowly, and slowly absorb the newcomers into the old base or will it grow so rapidly to completely change the base of its users..
Yepp, no matter who uses it, it is and always will be a tool that provides the freedom from goverment internvention, seizure and inflation.

My results were -
Centrist :

Economic Axis : Centrist | Equality 44.5% | Markets 55.5%
Diplomatic Axis: Patriotic | Nation 63.8% | World 36.2%
Civil Axis : Moderate | Liberty 56.9% | Authority 43.1%
Societal Axis : Progressive | Tradition 34.6% | Progress 65.4%

Doesn't matter what you are, as long as you're not a socialist  Cheesy
Markets are a bit up, nation is quite strong, liberty - authority ratio is good, you could be a libertarian, but gotta work on that economic axis  Tongue
I would probably ignore the societal axis, since the questions seemed to be weird.
For example: Do you think we should favor traditions over progress (I believe it was something simmilar), almost pointless.

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April 27, 2018, 03:06:17 AM
 #9

No matter who uses it, it is and always will be a tool that provides the freedom from goverment internvention, seizure and inflation.

This is what attracted me to Bitcoin originally. One word "Decentralization" was the single most attractive thing I had ever heard.

Markets are a bit up, nation is quite strong, liberty - authority ratio is good, you could be a libertarian, but gotta work on that economic axis  Tongue
I would probably ignore the societal axis, since the questions seemed to be weird.
For example: Do you think we should favor traditions over progress (I believe it was something simmilar), almost pointless.

There were a few questions that I felt were way too vague, for the sake of brevity presumably, and these had me stumped for awhile. Suggest me some economic reading, where can I get some information? As I said, very clueless, mostly ignored politics and economics my entire life. Markets are important, but maybe I have too much compassion weighing on it, or something. I think most American's would have a strong nation bias, it's pretty heavily embedded in our culture.

What defines a libertarian?

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April 27, 2018, 03:50:50 AM
 #10

With those Economics results, I would kill to pick your brain. I consider myself rather clueless on economics, and this result is interesting as hell.

Well, I'm an anarcho-capitalist (The Machinery of Freedom describes my particular ancap flavor). So I really should've gotten 100% capitalism, and I consider this a bug in the quiz.

The quiz doesn't seem that great. It seems impossible to be sane and then get very high numbers in most pairs of categories, which strikes me as a flaw in their whole methodology. I think that I should've gotten a higher score in "liberty", for example, but probably the questions which would've caused this were also pro-government, pro-egalitarian, or anti-market.

Do you think the community or Bitcoin have the possibility to change minds on economics issues?

Not directly, so much. The biggest value in this stuff is that it creates a territory of freedom where governments have little or no power. People will just naturally exploit this where they can, and as they increasingly rely on it, that's what might change minds, and it also reduces the power of governments in itself.

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April 27, 2018, 07:48:07 AM
 #11

You are correct. When I registered in 2014, the vast majority of the users were Lbertarian. But the demographic make-up changed, as more and more people joined from third world nations such as Pakistan and Indonesia. Now I guess the majority of the users are religious.

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April 27, 2018, 08:44:30 AM
Merited by mdayonliner (1)
 #12

Can't say that I am surprised at all by my results. I have always been pretty firm in my social and political beliefs, mostly because I formed them myself not so much based on what was around me or in my home.

I approached the quiz like any other that is meant to determine/categorize your traits. I read it and chose the first button that I felt was right; even if as I went to click it I began to have doubts. I'm a firm believer in your first thought/feeling is your true response.

I had to laugh because quite a few of the options did fall well within why I got involved with BTC, but the beauty there is it is many different things to many different people as we can see.

Personally I think there will be many more Capitalists that pop up these days. More on a gut feeling that in the last year people have seen this as a free market/gold rush opportunity.

Thanks for the topic, quiz was fun. I'll be checking back to see how others fare, if they post it.

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April 27, 2018, 11:08:02 AM
 #13

This is what attracted me to Bitcoin originally. One word "Decentralization" was the single most attractive thing I had ever heard.

There were a few questions that I felt were way too vague, for the sake of brevity presumably, and these had me stumped for awhile. Suggest me some economic reading, where can I get some information? As I said, very clueless, mostly ignored politics and economics my entire life. Markets are important, but maybe I have too much compassion weighing on it, or something. I think most American's would have a strong nation bias, it's pretty heavily embedded in our culture.

What defines a libertarian?

Milton Friedman: Free to Choose (there's a video serial too, you can find it on YouTube)
Adam Smith: The Wealth of Nations
George Orwell: 1984, Animal farm possibly



 libertarian (lĭbˌər-târˈē-ən)►

    n.
    One who advocates maximizing individual rights and minimizing the role of the state.
    n.
    One who believes in free will


A libertarian is a person who has a focus on personal freedom and contracts between individuals
NAP is a core principle
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-aggression_principle

Strong emphasis is on personal property, ownership and the individual.
Libertarians believe no one should forcefuly make decisions for you.

With those Economics results, I would kill to pick your brain. I consider myself rather clueless on economics, and this result is interesting as hell.

 I think that I should've gotten a higher score in "liberty", for example, but probably the questions which would've caused this were also pro-government, pro-egalitarian, or anti-market.

I agree. I've gotten a very low score on Liberty considering my personal focus on it.

You are correct. When I registered in 2014, the vast majority of the users were Lbertarian. But the demographic make-up changed, as more and more people joined from third world nations such as Pakistan and Indonesia. Now I guess the majority of the users are religious.

I don't think people from 3rd world countries are the problem.
We have plenty of socialists in the west.

....

It's rather interesting to see how the quiz works as you have gotten a 75% on Liberty, while Theymos and myself were rated at around 62-57%.

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April 27, 2018, 08:27:54 PM
 #14

Did the test. Wasn't really surprised by the results (which I guess is a good thing). In terms of civil liberties, I generally don't mind (as in I don't want it to be illegal; I might complain about it though) what you do as long as it doesn't harm others, also known as the world renowned "who gives a fuck" approach. As for my economic "policy", I'm for a society that doesn't stifle the successful (fair tax rates, non-overbearing regulations, etc.) but protects it's most vulnerable. A death of a person who didn't do anything wrong (didn't threaten the health or safety of other individuals) due to an inability to satisfy his / hers basic needs should be considered a failure of the system, not an inevitability. I'm not even advocating for a large social safety net - just the ability for every law-abiding citizen to exist (unemployment benefits so long as he's capable and looking for work, basic free housing and food stamps for the people who can't afford food and rent, free healthcare) and if he / she wants, the possibility to work towards a better life for him / her self (free basic education, completely free higher education for the well performing, smaller taxes for people with low income).

While I understand their importance for the economy, I thoroughly distrust corporations as they time and time again have shown to only act in their own self interest (profit) above all else (the well being of the consumers, workers, the environment, etc.) unless restricted from doing so via government regulations. I'd rather have a fair system working poorly (regulated capitalism) rather than an exploitative one working well (laissez-faire capitalism) since the former still has room to improve.

I consider nationalism to be an extension of tribalism - sometimes necessary, usually pointless and counterproductive. However, it's hard to ignore the fact that different countries have different cultures and mashing them together doesn't always work, at least in the short term. The last one kind of speaks for itself - we are talking about this on a cryptocurrency forum and I generally follow the aforementioned "who gives a fuck" approach to things that don't directly affect me.


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April 29, 2018, 03:58:33 AM
 #15


It's rather interesting to see how the quiz works as you have gotten a 75% on Liberty, while Theymos and myself were rated at around 62-57%.

Having very limited insight into your own views, and only slightly more info regarding Theymos. I would say it has more to do with the questions than anything. While I have operated in various roles through a number of different unregulated markets; the leanings make sense to me. However had they asked the right questions they would have found my limits; which in turn may have brought that down somewhat.

Although I think I take the protecting personal property to a whole new level. I recently tracked a thief from my home about 2 KM, thanks to freshly fallen snow to retrieve a 5 year old weather worn toboggan that my family had forgotten to take while leaving town for a few days. I came back from night shift and instead of the much needed sleep embarked on my personal mission. I have also never had a property I didn't build a fence around immediately; and generally 6 IN above limits. I know such a badass; and I switched between metric and imperial.


Wasn't really surprised by the results (which I guess is a good thing). In terms of civil liberties, I generally don't mind (as in I don't want it to be illegal; I might complain about it though) what you do as long as it doesn't harm others, also known as the world renowned "who gives a fuck" approach. As for my economic "policy", I'm for a society that doesn't stifle the successful (fair tax rates, non-overbearing regulations, etc.) but protects it's most vulnerable. A death of a person who didn't do anything wrong (didn't threaten the health or safety of other individuals) due to an inability to satisfy his / hers basic needs should be considered a failure of the system, not an inevitability. I'm not even advocating for a large social safety net - just the ability for every law-abiding citizen to exist (unemployment benefits so long as he's capable and looking for work, basic free housing and food stamps for the people who can't afford food and rent, free healthcare) and if he / she wants, the possibility to work towards a better life for him / her self (free basic education, completely free higher education for the well performing, smaller taxes for people with low income).

I thoroughly distrust corporations as they time and time again have shown to only act in their own self interest (profit) above all else (the well being of the consumers, workers, the environment, etc.) unless restricted from doing so via government regulations.

I didn't intend on quoting so much of your response. It started with 1 or 2 lines and then quickly became a matter of I can't cut that. I read it I was surprised by how many of those views are how I've described myself to others. Thanks for putting it into better words than I would have.
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April 29, 2018, 07:14:59 AM
 #16

My political orientation is usually with the majority:
Anti-war, pro democracy, against private prisons, environmentalist, woman decides whether to have an abortion, pro-LGBTQ, anti-fascist, anti-surveillance state, pro renewable energy, against private prisons, pro net neutrality, pro universal healthcare.

And more controversially:
I believe in syndicalism (unions owning companies), I believe that companies have the right to deny free speech and service, I support bipartisanship in the pursuit of egalitarian legislature, and I condemn conflict of interest and taking money from lobbyists. I support cooperating with your political enemies when you share an egalitarian stance, but not when the lawmakers benefits directly from passing the law. I am vehemently against meat industry subsidies, anti-Monsanto, against petro-agriculture subsidies, I am against drug-legalization yet I am also against imprisoning people for possession. I am against frisking, voter purging, DNC economic rigging, government-toppling... And the mass murder of civilians in Yemen and Gaza. I support 'law enforcement modification' for hanguns, I believe killing unarmed civilians should be persecuted even if you are a cop or a military general. I am against exorbitant military budgets (anything above 4% of federal spending) and massive spending on revolving door military contractors. I am pro-denuclearization, anti proxy war, anti-coup, I believe that funding terrorists should be persecuted and that against arming and supplying terrorists should illegal. I think rich elites and religions should pay taxes, but I also think that people should have the option to opt-out of specific government programs. I support the environmentalist political parties and believe that consumers need to support fair trade and minimize their impact on the environment by choosing environmentally sustainable products and minimizing goods transportation. I believe in economic socialism, and human egalitarianism. I believe that whistleblowers should not be persecuted. I am against the 'Muslim ban' and the National Defense Authorization Act. I believe that banks should be regulated on how much they can lend. I believe that banks should back loans from their own coffers and that printing money to lend to other banks should be regulated. That the EPA should be restored.

And most controversially:
I believe that coal plants, oil pipelines and animal testing should be illegal. I believe that war criminals should be persecuted - including politicians! I believe that the CIA and ICE should be dismantled immediately, and that the NSA needs to become more transparent by going back to ThinThread. I believe that Duterte, Salman bin Abdulaziz Al Saud, Netanyahu, Hillary Clinton, Dick Cheney, George Bush, and the Koch Brothers should all be put on trial for crimes against humanity. I think that predatory capitalism should be boycotted by consumers.

I believe that the entire planet needs to completely switch to renewable energy and invest massive MASSIVE wealth into carbon sinks to try and save the planet from desertification via runaway global warming. Last year we passed the critical threshold for carbon dioxide. If we stop all greenhouse gas emissions now, the planet will become a desert within 2000 years due to water vapor being a greenhouse gas, and cloud coverage (evaporation plus relative humidity) rising as it gets hotter! Therefore a massive concerted effort is needed by all of humanity to focus on carbon sinks in an attempt to stabilize the atmosphere's carbon dioxide levels back under the extinction threshold that we just passed of 400ppm. Therefore anything that uses gasoline or petroleum or oil should be tariffed, fined, or sanctioned - including cars, plastics, pesticides, fertilizers, etc.

And finally, yet most importantly: I believe that animals with human-level intelligence have the same rights as humans. This means that all animal testing and factory farming is a criminal offense, and sabotaging the meat industry should be legal because animals are not property and I am against slavery, rape, and torture!

I support gene therapy because I view aging as a 'disease'. A curable disease!

It gets even more controversial, yet the arguments for my above views do not rely on the arguments for my following stances:
1) I advocate the one-child policy in order to prevent overpopulation. This means that the government only subsidizes your firstborn. Overbreeding is the primary cause of overpopulation, and financial pressure can solve this. Incidentally, the one-child policy also makes intelligence into a genetically desirable trait! Intelligence relies on complex genetic coding which is lost over generations of overbreeding to gene deterioration. Any form of population control mitigates gene deterioration, and the one-child policy is the most peaceful method of population control. Without population control, human civilization collapses due to famine, disease, thermonuclear war or destruction of the biosphere from pollution or ecological destruction.
2) I fully-support technological singularity, and assert that AI with human-level intelligence have the same rights as humans, since we are philosophical zombies with deterministic actions and thoughts. Everything is reducible to mathematics, including consciousness and intelligence, therefore AI can be programmed to live in a simulation and think the same way as humans. The primary difference being that a human-level AI consciousness would become more rational and logical than its human counterpart since it is not limited by wetware and genetics. Incidentally, artificial general intelligence would be capable of colonizing planets when the sun burns out, and hopefully intelligent enough to create programmable black holes or some form of supercomputer capable of simulating an entire universe to forestall heat death by using the processing power of black holes to give intelligent life infinitely more time to survive.
3) My most controversial view of all: I believe that the role of humans is as pets, and that post-singularity artificial general intelligence will be our rightful owners, since we are too stupid to survive as the dominant species on Earth.
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May 02, 2018, 04:42:02 PM
 #17

Well, this poll has gone a lot better than expected  Cheesy
Though, from some of the replies I see self identifying as a libertarian this does not equate pro-market tendencies.
Which I used to bind together.

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May 02, 2018, 07:01:36 PM
Merited by buyandhold (1), theymos_away (1)
 #18

Well, I don't know how to start. My political orientation is socialist because I am from Vietnam and it's quite different from your orientation. My country has 4000 years of its history with more than 2000 years in wars and civil wars. My political orientation has been oriented from secondary school up to now, and even to death. Maxis and Leninist and Ho Chi Minh theory have been concreted in my mind from childhood and they shall follow me like shadowing.
Because of 2000 years in blood and smoke, Vietnamese gave birth to many world heroes, such as: Vo Nguyen Giap, Tran Hung Dao. To date, I can not define what socialist exactly is, but it is somewhat i really admire and honour. Why? Socialist is, to some extents my religious and help me to have a happy life literally. Although my country is still the poor one (about $300 bil GDP 2017), most of Vietnamese can afford themselves with medium accommodation in general.
There's only one Party in my country, the Socialist Party which was called "Vietcong" by American troops in years 1955-1975. So, Vietnamese election is not as fair as yours. But I like this because the leading party has no opponents and it, therefore brings us peace.
I would like to confirm here: my orientation is Socialist and Socialist only because it help me to have a happy life and that's enough
P/s I am from the third world so my writing skill is not as good as you. So, forgive me if I have any mistakes.

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May 02, 2018, 11:37:46 PM
 #19

The community has become less libertarian as it has expanded, which is disappointing, but not really unexpected. IMO Bitcoin is still a force for freedom regardless, though.



I'd expect more "progress" from you Theymos on that test.  Shocked
Perhaps this test doesn't take crypto into account all that much. Wink


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May 03, 2018, 12:45:46 AM
 #20

The community has become less libertarian as it has expanded, which is disappointing, but not really unexpected. IMO Bitcoin is still a force for freedom regardless, though.
I'd expect more "progress" from you Theymos on that test.  Shocked
Perhaps this test doesn't take crypto into account all that much. Wink

What they put as "progress" in the test is heavily subjective.
One can not know for certain what's going to bring progress.
I don't think there are many people that don't want progress?
It's funny that they put tradition vs. progress as those 2 must be opposed.
Dislike.

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