Bitcoin isn't worth it for consumers. And that will stop adoption.

[PenAndPaper]

Plain wrong. IP address identifies a place on Earth, even not identity.

Ip address have nothing to do with bitcoin. There isn't a built in thing in bitcoin that logs your ip.
Don't be confused with the ip logs of blockchain.info. Those are the ip's of whoever relayed first the transaction to their node and afaict it is rarely the ip of the guy that actually did the transaction.

[bitcoinpsftp]

Nobody can be sure what the future holds.  If we're lucky, they will skyrocket so high that we will be the richest forum ever to exist.

[disclaimer201]

Nobody can be sure what the future holds.  If we're lucky, they will skyrocket so high that we will be the richest forum ever to exist.

More greed talking here. Greed eats brains. Everyone is so obsessed with getting rich is giving me the biggest doubts about the future of BTC.

[gluk64]

No one in their right mind is going to use BTC as a currency as long as they expect the value to keep rising.
You know your cash will be worth less this time next year, thats the incentive to spend it.

In the 19th century, during the golden standard, there was a constant deflation. So what? Why spend gold and silver, if you can buy more for them next year? Because you need to eat today!

Even now we have a deflation with a lot of things. Why buy a new smartphone now, if in 3 months it's gonna be much cheaper, and in 1 year it will fall to half its price?

If bitcoin users have all their cash in BTC they will have to spend it some time.

[jubalix]

No one in their right mind is going to use BTC as a currency as long as they expect the value to keep rising. Why spend something now that might be worth 100x as much next year... 
You know your cash will be worth less this time next year, thats the incentive to spend it.

well you can, you just replace immediately what you spend, and your were going to spend that anyway, but I do take the point the cost purchase %. However its still cheaper for overseas transactions then interbank rate, or money exchangers

[AnonyMint]

Anonymity? Wait, Bitcoin doesn't have that.

How many f. times I have to mention Tor around? F. connect to it and all your anonimity problems are gone. Literally.

Incorrect.

Faster transactions? Wait, Bitcoin doesn't have that.

Not essentially the problem with this type of transactions...

 

[NewLiberty]

Exit node does not know where the source node is. It's the chain of proxies. SR has fallen not because they outsmarted Tor

What degree of certainty do you ascribe to this assertion, my European friend?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallel_construction

[niothor]

No one in their right mind is going to use BTC as a currency as long as they expect the value to keep rising.
You know your cash will be worth less this time next year, thats the incentive to spend it.

In the 19th century, during the golden standard, there was a constant deflation. So what? Why spend gold and silver, if you can buy more for them next year? Because you need to eat today!

Even now we have a deflation with a lot of things. Why buy a new smartphone now, if in 3 months it's gonna be much cheaper, and in 1 year it will fall to half its price?

If bitcoin users have all their cash in BTC they will have to spend it some time.

I don't think that there are even 10 people with all their money in bitcoin.
And , also many people advise against holding everything in btc.

[gluk64]

I don't think that there are even 10 people with all their money in bitcoin.

It doesn't matter how much savings you hold in bitcoin. If you decide to limit your savings in BTC to 1% of all your fortune, fine. Now you can purchase a few more BTC for payments and then actually spend them.

The argument was that nobody would spend bitcoins, because they go up in price. This argument contradicts to the idea of limited savings.

[niothor]

I don't think that there are even 10 people with all their money in bitcoin.

It doesn't matter how much savings you hold in bitcoin. If you decide to limit your savings in BTC to 1% of all your fortune, fine. Now you can purchase a few more BTC for payments and then actually spend them.

The argument was that nobody would spend bitcoins, because they go up in price. This argument contradicts to the idea of limited savings.

Please quote all the discussion , not what  part you want.
You proposed a scenario:
"If bitcoin users have all their cash in BTC they will have to spend it some time."
I told you that is a SF one.
Nothing more nothing less.

[gluk64]

Please quote all the discussion, not what  part you want.

Gladly. I was responding to this initial thesis which you quoted yourself:

No one in their right mind is going to use BTC as a currency as long as they expect the value to keep rising.

Do you now agree or disagree? Will they use it despite deflation?

[pening]

No one in their right mind is going to use BTC as a currency as long as they expect the value to keep rising.
You know your cash will be worth less this time next year, thats the incentive to spend it.

In the 19th century, during the golden standard, there was a constant deflation. So what? Why spend gold and silver, if you can buy more for them next year? Because you need to eat today!

That's OK while you can go out and earn more to pay for tomorrow, even if it will earn slightly less.  But that's not where Bitcoin is, unless you invest a large $ (or BTC) in a ASIC which will be redundant in a couple of months.  If you dont hold, you are paying increasing amounts to buy, if you hold you are compelled to hold longer to benefit from deflation making your asset worth more.  This is an drawback that pro-deflation advocates ignore.  Once it didn't matter because you could just mine more, I fear the shift to ASIC is actually counter productive.

[gluk64]

The merchants don't have to set prices in BTC. They do it in fiat, and BTC rate is applied at the moment of purchase. If I plan to spend $1000 this month, I just buy once 1 BTC from my monthly salary, and I can be sure that it will have at least that purchasing power (and probably more). Why leave it in fiat? Why not spend it, if I need to buy stuff anyway?

[PenAndPaper]

and I can be sure that it will have at least that purchasing power (and probably more).

How exactly you can be sure about that? Ok everyone here is bullish given the last months meteoric rise but you can't be certain whatsoever.

[gluk64]

How exactly you can be sure about that?

Please read the whole discussion. We're arguing whether one will use bitcoins or not given its deflationary design.

As far as I'm concerned, I'm gonna stay bullish as long as fiat policies continue same way as now.

[User101]

No one in their right mind is going to use BTC as a currency as long as they expect the value to keep rising.
You know your cash will be worth less this time next year, thats the incentive to spend it.

In the 19th century, during the golden standard, there was a constant deflation. So what? Why spend gold and silver, if you can buy more for them next year? Because you need to eat today!

Even now we have a deflation with a lot of things. Why buy a new smartphone now, if in 3 months it's gonna be much cheaper, and in 1 year it will fall to half its price?

If bitcoin users have all their cash in BTC they will have to spend it some time.

All those deflation theories would mean that the Businessmodel of a credit card would never take off.
Because consumers are so wise with their spendings. WRONG consumers are fkin morons that spent their money as long as they have it and take credit if someone can give it to them.

Same goes for electronics, lets take smartphones, with the deflation theory Apples Iphone success would be never possible. because everyone knows that one year later apple will bring a phone twice as good for the same price, thats a HUGE deflation, not some 1-2% and still nobody give a fuck. Consumers camping days in front of the store to get one.

Deflation theory in my opinion an over exaggerated myth, to make sure the tax payer keeps using fiat money and doesn't question status quo.

[Ryson]

This is a disadvantage for the consumer specially if the bitcoin value fluctuate. But for merchants they have all the advantage from no chargeback, low transaction fees and no merchant charge.

[johnyj]

Best practice of bitcoin is long term saving, not consumption. For consumption you better spend inflative fiat money as much as possible. Of course you can spend bitcoin after a long term saving period, but as long as there are exchanges, no need to directly spend bitcoin

Bitcoin is the most powerful tool in capital virtualization. In future, after bitcoin has established itself as the most credible digital asset, you will never need to spend even a single satoshi of your bitcoin holding, you just need to sign a message with your private key and approve that you are the rightful owner of certain amount of bitcoin, then banks will send truck load of fiat money to you to spend, without interest  

[Hollingsworth]

I am reading a book called "The Power of Gold"

It's a history of gold currency throughout the world. The underlying book thesis is that countries that minted
a reliable, precious, and well recognized currency were the most advanced culturally and economically.

Nations that minted gold coins were sought after, because of the stability and reliability of their currency. With this store of wealth they encouraged trading, exploration, the arts and sciences. The bezant, florin, gulden, and ducat were the standards of currency for hundreds of years. As were silver coins.

I think of bitcoin as the precious "gold coins" of today...because it is so innovative with the blockchain concept and open ledger.
And it is very empowering for the individual, possibly it's greatest asset. Bitcoin is barely a decade old, and if not co-opted, could be as revolutionary as the internet.

[mearylll]

This is a disadvantage for the consumer specially if the bitcoin value fluctuate. But for merchants they have all the advantage from no chargeback, low transaction fees and no merchant charge.

People who have faith in the bitcoins will never stop the adoption and will continue to use the bitcoins irrespective of the value that bitcoin has to offer and adoption is lower at present due to the price fluctuations and that doesn't attract a newbie who wants to get into bitcoins.