Bitcoin Crashing Again?

[marcotheminer]

Could this be signs of another crash?



If you want to help me earn my first bitcoin: feel free:

12hYBWiPqfwdveGzpbRdGxeqnoMcNvGNSq

[1714688434]

1714688434

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[I_bitcoin]

Wake me up when it hits 10 cents.   I might worry then. 

[zeroday]

china is dumping now. 6000CNY -> 4900 CNY

IMO, another bear trap

[chriswilmer]

china is dumping now. 6000CNY -> 4900 CNY

IMO, another bear trap

+1

[CMMPro]

This is probably another correction....but we can all read the charts, we don't need someone to freak out every time there is a little fart in the market.

[BittBurger]

This is probably another correction....but we can all read the charts, we don't need someone to freak out every time there is a little fart in the market.

This is the very reason anyone makes money on markets.

Because of human beings propensity to run for the hills at the slightest sign of bad news.

The rest get a better price and make money.

[GriTBitS]

its just like normal, obama on tv. markets go down!

[MatTheCat]

IMO, another bear trap

The problem with that, is if Bitcoin were to crash right back to $100, you would be saying 'Bear Trap' all the way down.

[eindbaas]

Little correction , one fat chinese mofo cashed out. Bought 5 bitcoins again at 760. Now lets go to the moon again. 1000 dollars on bitstamp in 2 days.

[windjc]

IMO, another bear trap

The problem with that, is if Bitcoin were to crash right back to $100, you would be saying 'Bear Trap' all the way down.

No, if Bitcoin crashed to $100 we'd say something else. Has that happened? Hell no.

Its gone down a $100ish. Big woop. We all know you are a bear trolling for lower prices, but this thing will be at $1000 in less than 6 days.  And when someone researches your post history you will be discredited. Again.

[MatTheCat]

Its gone down a $100ish. Big woop. We all know you are a bear trolling for lower prices, but this thing will be at $1000 in less than 6 days.  And when someone researches your post history you will be discredited. Again.

Really!?

If you research my posts you will see that I have predicted two crashes (not that it was hard to see), in the face of a flurry of desperately unfunny 'face palm' jpegs etc. The first time around, I admit I took took pleasure in revisiting the most arrogant and asking how their investments were doing.

The last crash however, never turned out the way I was expecting. Bitcoin bounced right back (on western exchanges) and is being held up by hoarding, as opposed to the flurry of new buyers all the nutters on this forum keep talking about. Although we now are still in midst of another correction, I would have to admit to a complete recovery. I was wrong, and I have since changed my outlook on Bitcoin in addition to to my financial stance towards it. However, even the most recent correction (down around 20% in the space of one night), would be considered a catastrophic crash in any other market.

You say that I am a troll looking for lower prices, perhaps, but if that were the case, that would be no different to being a troll trolling for higher prices, like the majority on here, who serve up nothing in their posts but pure idiocy on toast, so long as it somehow supports Btc going to the moon.

I am long on Bitcoin and intend to go longer. But unlike most of the rest of you, I strongly believe that one day Bitcoin will not exist. Even if it goes to $10000 before it implodes into oblivion.

[Mellnik]

Please stop begging for bitcoins, OP

[PenAndPaper]

This is probably another correction....but we can all read the charts, we don't need someone to freak out every time there is a little fart in the market.

I don't think that many people freak out in this forum. As far as i can tell for the most of us here every crash is just a correction and every dip a bear trap. I 'm sure that even if bitcoin goes down to 1$ there will be guys telling that it's a correction.  

[Gordonium]

The Great Crash is coming!

[Gordonium]

You'll see.

[mccoyspace]

The Great Crash is coming!

Back up to $800 again. Huh? Was that it?

[BitcoinAshley]

Really!?

If you research my posts you will see that I have predicted two crashes (not that it was hard to see), in the face of a flurry of desperately unfunny 'face palm' jpegs etc. The first time around, I admit I took took pleasure in revisiting the most arrogant and asking how their investments were doing.

The last crash however, never turned out the way I was expecting. Bitcoin bounced right back (on western exchanges) and is being held up by hoarding, [...]

That's all I saw; I stopped reading when I realized he was going to whine about hoarding.

Those damn hoarders! You sound like FDR during the great depression - it's just so darn EASY to blame everything on speculators and hoarders, when the behavior of those market actors is merely an effect of market conditions rather than a cause.
I would love to speculate on a single current cause of the price being held up, but chances are, there are dozens of significant reasons, and blaming it on "hoarders" is a great way to illustrate the kind of reductionist, polar, linear thinking that is taught in public schools these days - and even university economics courses, where the idea that the great depression was caused by foolish monetary policy is considered to be held by fringe lunatics.

Fekete would say that hoarders are a natural part of a market and serve to provide and remove liquidity. Everyone has their price and that goes both ways. We can't really consider this an artificial or unnatural influence. People like to whine about hoarders and centralization in BTC yet the USD has 1% of the holders with 40% of the dollars or something along those figures... and what about gold? Unless you're attending Porcfest or live in some backwater town in Arizona, you can't exactly spend gold, so every single gold-holder is a hoarder! Who or what is immune to this natural behavior? Hoarding is really not suitable as a scapegoat, especially since there is really not an appropriate definition of how much savings vs. monthly spendings makes ones a hoarder vs. a responsible saver. If I have 5000 BTC but spend about 2 every month am I  a hoarder or just someone with a big retirement account? If I have 100 BTC but spend none of it, am I a hoarder or just someone who spends in one currency and has a responsible savings account in another? If I have 20,000 BTC am I a 'hoarder' or just a rich mofo with a lot of bitcoins? What a futile game. "Hoarder, responsible saver, or rich motherfucker?" What about if I have 25,000 BTC, am constantly investing more fiat, and spend 500 per week on my chaffeurs and mansion upkeep and bunch of other stuff? I might be very offensive but does not my ratio of spending vs. saving qualify me as a 'responsible saver' rather than a "low-down dirty hoarder"... except that it doesn't work that way, does it?

EDIT: Here you go: Hoarding and Dishoarding, first section. Learn something! http://www.professorfekete.com/articles/AEFMonEcon102Lecture1.pdf

[bitcon]

i'm just a filthy, dirty, hoarde.

[zubelutte]

You'll see.

When exactly ? I see your Crash is comming post yesterday as well...

[notme]

i'm just a filthy, dirty, hoarde.

Me too.  If only I had hoarded better back when I was mining 0.5% of the network .

[JimboToronto]

i'm just a filthy, dirty, hoarde.

I'm an immaculate hoarder.

Buy as low as possible, hold as long as possible, avoid selling if at all possible, rinse and repeat.

Okay, maybe I'm a little dirty. I sold 8% of my bitcoins during last April's dead cat bounce and bought back 2 weeks later for less than 2/3 the price. The other 92% of my coins are clean and safe in paper wallets.

[MatTheCat]

Oh my god, why is this place so full of clowns who are full to the brim of self importance? Probably has something to do with so many delusional idiots having gotten rich through sheer fluke of judgement landing them on the right side of a trade. Of course, y'all prefer to think of your good fortune as being down to your razor sharp business acumen.

That's all I saw; I stopped reading when I realized he was going to whine about hoarding.


EDIT: Here you go: Hoarding and Dishoarding, first section. Learn something!

I wasn't whinging.

And if I was whinging about hoarders, I wouldn't be referring to paupers like yourself.

I was merely pointing out a fact.

And it is an important fact, because if the Bitcoin price was being held up by mass adoption, and 90% of coin trades were due to participators in real world economic transactions then it would be a very different market from what it is. As it is, the market price is rising due to HOARDING. Furthermore, we all know that there are Bitcoin whales in these waters, who have the power to drive this market right down (as well as up). In a market determined by hoarding, all entrants are at the whim and mercy of the biggest hoarders, thus we are all playing in a cornered market. a very different scenario from the ideal.

P.S. I read a whole lot less of your post than you did of mine...especially if you got this far.

[PenAndPaper]

If everybody is hoarding it's not a healthy market. You need heavy volume to see rise in price (and also big pullbacks). If nobody had sold since the early days, price would still be at 10 cents.

The problem with hoarding is that people don't invest their btc in businesses and technologies around bitcoin.
They just hoard and wait for the miracle to happen.

[JimboToronto]

If everybody is hoarding it's not a healthy market. You need heavy volume to see rise in price (and also big pullbacks). If nobody had sold since the early days, price would still be at 10 cents.

The problem with hoarding is that people don't invest their btc in businesses and technologies around bitcoin.
They just hoard and wait for the miracle to happen.

Why waste bitcoins on investing in businesses when fiat will do just fine?

One of my smartest decisions was to pay for my BFL pre-order with dollars last February, instead of using bitcoins. By the time I actually received my miner in late October, difficulty had increased so much that it took me a whole month to mine my first whole coin.

That was enough, at today's price, to pay for the miner, shipping, customs brokerage (grrr) and taxes. If I'd paid in Bitcoin, I'd probably never break even.

[antoineph]

If everybody is hoarding it's not a healthy market. You need heavy volume to see rise in price (and also big pullbacks). If nobody had sold since the early days, price would still be at 10 cents.

The problem with hoarding is that people don't invest their btc in businesses and technologies around bitcoin.
They just hoard and wait for the miracle to happen.

Exactly. And it could damage the concept of bitcoin.

You can't stop hoarding, or trust people not to hoard. If they hoard it's because of the inherent structure of bitcoin and its relationship to human nature. The concept of bitcoin doesn't get damaged by hoarders. The concept of bitcoin involves hoarding as a natural part of it.

I'm not saying bitcoin is perfect.

[JimboToronto]

it could damage the concept of bitcoin.

Damage the concept? LOL

[zuckerant]

Yeah. Today I sold a few coins at 760 and probably will buy back a few at 850 tomorrow. Best decision ever.

[gongomanny]

The problem with hoarding is that people don't invest their btc in businesses and technologies around bitcoin.
They just hoard and wait for the miracle to happen.

Exactly. And it could damage the concept of bitcoin.

If you buy gold, do you need to sel it next day to not damage the concept of gold 

[notme]

Yeah. Today I sold a few coins at 760 and probably will buy back a few at 850 tomorrow. Best decision ever.

I've lost hundreds of BTC to relentless rallies.  If you are a long term supporter, it's better to just spend them on stuff you want.  That way, you can support merchants, provide liquidity, and either lock in some profits, or rebuy them to not lose out on future gains.

[drnick]

If everybody is hoarding it's not a healthy market. You need heavy volume to see rise in price (and also big pullbacks). If nobody had sold since the early days, price would still be at 10 cents.

+1

If anyone has pangs of regret for spending their early bitcoins, if you hadn't spent them, you wouldn't have the opportunity for regret today! The whole bitcoin community should be really grateful for the early adopters who were spenders and actually made use of the system.

Where possible, I try to spend bitcoins or receive payments in bitcoin. I still hoard by replacing bitcoins immediately after I spend them. It's a little more cumbersome to do the Fiat -> Bitcoin -> Bitcoin -> Fiat dance, but it's still fun to see it all work.

[OC19850520]

The whole bitcoin community should be really grateful for the early adopters who were spenders and actually made use of the system.

I was been able to mine some coins with my GPU early this year, so you could just mine the coins early this year easily. But not anymore, I have to buy now instead (probably not only from early adopters  )

[GriTBitS]

Well when ppl started getting there mini rigs beginning of OCT they were selling them off. Now they are getting low amount of coin return so they're holding on to them... The next batch of miners with the 28mm rigs will get here soon and the price will shoot up again. They will be the new money and wanting to sell except they will need to sell for more to get payback. This cycle will continue to repeat for a long time... Investment needs payback. So they sell. Selling creates Vol. People start holding out for more money but still willing to sell. Then the Increase in difficulty hits and they are back to hording.... March Apr of this year is when BLF started issuing their first mini rigs I believe.

[Buffer Overflow]

If everybody is hoarding it's not a healthy market. You need heavy volume to see rise in price (and also big pullbacks). If nobody had sold since the early days, price would still be at 10 cents.

I don't hoard. I save.

[JimboToronto]

If everybody is hoarding it's not a healthy market. You need heavy volume to see rise in price (and also big pullbacks). If nobody had sold since the early days, price would still be at 10 cents.

I don't hoard. I save.

I guess I don't hoard then either. I invest. Long term.

[lightfoot]

Because of human beings propensity to run for the hills at the slightest sign of bad news.

The rest get a better price and make money.

I try to explain that to people about the stock market: "It's not down 20%, everything simply is on a 20% off sale.". Unless the world melts down (which oddly enough I really doubt is going to happen) things will not be as bad as people think.

[kolesozw]

But some people already plan to hoard all their coins in a paper wallet under their bed for 4 years hoping it will be 1000000 us by then. It won't be that simple.

Not sure if only 4 years, but I believe it is that simple.
I dont believe big crash is comming, only some corrections along the million road

[Salivan]

Well when ppl started getting there mini rigs beginning of OCT they were selling them off. Now they are getting low amount of coin return so they're holding on to them... The next batch of miners with the 28mm rigs will get here soon and the price will shoot up again. They will be the new money and wanting to sell except they will need to sell for more to get payback. This cycle will continue to repeat for a long time... Investment needs payback. So they sell. Selling creates Vol. People start holding out for more money but still willing to sell. Then the Increase in difficulty hits and they are back to hording.... March Apr of this year is when BLF started issuing their first mini rigs I believe.

miners participation in today market is negligible

[zeroday]

I'm hoarder, but I sincerely wish to support the market, and you can always buy a fraction of my bitcoins at $5000/btc.

[freakying99]

Well when ppl started getting there mini rigs beginning of OCT they were selling them off. Now they are getting low amount of coin return so they're holding on to them... The next batch of miners with the 28mm rigs will get here soon and the price will shoot up again. They will be the new money and wanting to sell except they will need to sell for more to get payback. This cycle will continue to repeat for a long time... Investment needs payback. So they sell. Selling creates Vol. People start holding out for more money but still willing to sell. Then the Increase in difficulty hits and they are back to hording.... March Apr of this year is when BLF started issuing their first mini rigs I believe.

miners participation in today market is negligible

3600 NEW Coins daily, thats a lot in market trades.

[mvidetto]

Well when ppl started getting there mini rigs beginning of OCT they were selling them off. Now they are getting low amount of coin return so they're holding on to them... The next batch of miners with the 28mm rigs will get here soon and the price will shoot up again. They will be the new money and wanting to sell except they will need to sell for more to get payback. This cycle will continue to repeat for a long time... Investment needs payback. So they sell. Selling creates Vol. People start holding out for more money but still willing to sell. Then the Increase in difficulty hits and they are back to hording.... March Apr of this year is when BLF started issuing their first mini rigs I believe.

miners participation in today market is negligible

3600 NEW Coins daily, thats a lot in market trades.

It's actually more like 4k coins daily average 8.9m between blocks or about 4044 btc a day.

[NUFCrichard]

it's having a bit of a hissy fit crash now...

[Gordonium]

THE GREAT CRASH!!!!!!

[MatTheCat]

it's having a bit of a hissy fit crash now...

It looks to me as though a clear correcting phase is forming here.

Btc-e, MtGox, and BtcChina, are now all showing bounces on the 15m charts, each one failing to reach the highs of the previous peak. However, new lows are not being tested either.

[BitcoinAshley]

Guys, I think it's obvious The Great Crash(TM) has arrived. I know we'd all like to pretend it isn't happening, but just admit that Gordonium is right and you're all bagholders. The Great Crash(TM) has begun.

(Just don't tell Gordonium that it's an upwards crash) 

My BTC bag has been a lot heavier lately. I don't mind being a bagholder if this is what it entails.

[zeroday]

THE GREAT CRASH!!!!!!

You may repeat it 100 times but it won't recover the coins you sold a few days ago.
Just re-buy now with loss and enjoy that you will have it when price passes $2k/btc.

[torry28]

THE GREAT CRASH!!!!!!

Just small correction so far.

Ok, so what price you need to rebuy the coins you sold ?
Or you will be trolling at any price?

[PenAndPaper]

Why waste bitcoins on investing in businesses when fiat will do just fine?

One of my smartest decisions was to pay for my BFL pre-order with dollars last February, instead of using bitcoins. By the time I actually received my miner in late October, difficulty had increased so much that it took me a whole month to mine my first whole coin.

Of course if you have fiat you may invest using fiat. I 'm talking about guys that don't have enough fiat but bought hundreds or even thousands of coin early on and the only thing they do now is hoarding and waiting for others to give value to the ecosystem.

[donjoe]

You say that I am a troll looking for lower prices, perhaps, but if that were the case, that would be no different to being a troll trolling for higher prices, like the majority on here, who serve up nothing in their posts but pure idiocy on toast, so long as it somehow supports Btc going to the moon.

I am long on Bitcoin and intend to go longer. But unlike most of the rest of you, I strongly believe that one day Bitcoin will not exist. Even if it goes to $10000 before it implodes into oblivion.

Refreshing to see the occasional other guy who gets it speak up.

The problem with hoarding is that people don't invest their btc in businesses and technologies around bitcoin.
They just hoard and wait for the miracle to happen.

Exactly. And it could damage the concept of bitcoin.

Uh, wut? Damage the concept of Bitcoin as a medium of exchange? I'm afraid it's a little late for that - a certain mr. Nakamura took care of that one a long time ago.

[Syke]

3600 NEW Coins daily, thats a lot in market trades.

It's actually more like 4k coins daily average 8.9m between blocks or about 4044 btc a day.

More than 22k coins change hands just on MtGox alone. Add all the exchanges together and you'll see that even if all new coins were sold every day, they are but a few percentage points of the trading market.

[Logik]

Why do people keep calling "crash" on very short lived, ~20% dips? That's pretty normal for this [rally/bubble]. At least wait for a 2 day red candle, or something.

[TERA]

At this rate of descent, it'll be single digits within a month. So you better sell me your coins now.

[Okurkabinladin]

Well when ppl started getting there mini rigs beginning of OCT they were selling them off. Now they are getting low amount of coin return so they're holding on to them... The next batch of miners with the 28mm rigs will get here soon and the price will shoot up again. They will be the new money and wanting to sell except they will need to sell for more to get payback. This cycle will continue to repeat for a long time... Investment needs payback. So they sell. Selling creates Vol. People start holding out for more money but still willing to sell. Then the Increase in difficulty hits and they are back to hording.... March Apr of this year is when BLF started issuing their first mini rigs I believe.

miners participation in today market is negligible

3600 NEW Coins daily, thats a lot in market trades.

It's actually more like 4k coins daily average 8.9m between blocks or about 4044 btc a day.

So we are talking about three million dollars daily minimum just to keep the price from tanking  

EDIT: Whoop dee doo. We not only broke last all time high at two hundred sixty six pre bitcoin, we even broke into less than two hundred. This was hellish ride, I tell you, kids. Its not going to come back, is it? IS IT? I hope not. That would be my end for sure.

- Pyrrhus

[zuckerant]

Yeah. Today I sold a few coins at 760 and probably will buy back a few at 850 tomorrow. Best decision ever.

I've lost hundreds of BTC to relentless rallies.  If you are a long term supporter, it's better to just spend them on stuff you want.  That way, you can support merchants, provide liquidity, and either lock in some profits, or rebuy them to not lose out on future gains.

I do spend bitcoins because I also see the need to push the market. No big spends,  as a non-american there aren't that many possibilites. But it's great for steam keys or amazon.com. Because of the drops I still can buyin later. I do the "spend in bitcoins, resupply bitcoins with cash afterwards".

[bathwater]

Yeah. Today I sold a few coins at 760 and probably will buy back a few at 850 tomorrow. Best decision ever.

I've lost hundreds of BTC to relentless rallies.  If you are a long term supporter, it's better to just spend them on stuff you want.  That way, you can support merchants, provide liquidity, and either lock in some profits, or rebuy them to not lose out on future gains.

I do spend bitcoins because I also see the need to push the market. No big spends,  as a non-american there aren't that many possibilites. But it's great for steam keys or amazon.com. Because of the drops I still can buyin later. I do the "spend in bitcoins, resupply bitcoins with cash afterwards".

nice that you do that (sell and spend bitcoin) but isnt that a problem, you can only spend bcoin at certain places that it is a limited market. the market isnt there. and after a while support will die down. while speculators and investors will only be holing the majority of coins. when a closed circuit holds control. the market will suffocate.
 

[zuckerant]

I see it as a great danger that with all the speculation a few people will gather most bitcoins so I want to avoid decreasing the amount and also try to hold at least some cash between trading. If they drop all of their bitcoins, bitcoin will be dead. That's why i spend some of them during the uptrend. They will have no value if bitcoin crashes for the one last time. I didn't put my life issurance in bitcoins, only money I can lose.

Bitpay & Co is my hope. A middle men between buyers and merchants will be needed for most earth citizens  as long as it isn't someone like paypal. Bitcoins will be useful as a cheap and easy way of instant transfer over the world. I don't care if bitcoins will be hold by investors in the few years coming. Transfers from one side of the world to the other side shouldn't take days. If the future bitcoin transfers go with expensive fees I guess it will be forked (like in open source or lite coins). Paper virtual credit cards (in shops) were an alternative but I think they got more restricted and not accepted by all companies. AND you get tracked by the credit companies so the opposite of anonymous.

Profit is nice but I'm a little IT geek so the technical possibilities are a big reason for buying bitcoins even if I could lose money. As said above I wouldn't put my life insurance into it. But who would put it at prices of $10.000/BTC? That's real future stuff.