Taking a loan to buy bitcoin

[explorer]

I'm thinking do it but only do it if your prepared to lose the money you  get loaned.  Meaning you can afford to lost that amount.  I may do the same thing but it won't be for a lot of money I just want to get in on the action.

Don't you think that, if he's considering taking a loan to buy bitcoins, that it probably means he can't afford to lose the sum of the loan? Otherwise... why take a loan in the first place?  

Well, technically you could perhaps afford the monthly repayments on a loan, without being able to "afford" the full loan amount upfront.  By that, I mean he may be able to afford the monthly loan payments, given his cash flow, but he doesn't just have $10k sitting around to buy Bitcoin.

A period of low cashflow does not necessarily mean broke or unable to service a loan. Besides, with bitcoin, you are typically better off to go all in at once rather than trickle in over months or years. Pretty sure there hasnt yet been a year that didnt return more than any bank loan charges these days.

[kireinaha]

[...] Besides, with bitcoin, you are typically better off to go all in at once rather than trickle in over months or years. Pretty sure there hasnt yet been a year that didnt return more than any bank loan charges these days.

Just don't do anything stupid, guys. For your family's sake, or just for your own sake. Take a balanced approach.

[CoinCidental]

I'm thinking do it but only do it if your prepared to lose the money you  get loaned.  Meaning you can afford to lost that amount.  I may do the same thing but it won't be for a lot of money I just want to get in on the action.

Don't you think that, if he's considering taking a loan to buy bitcoins, that it probably means he can't afford to lose the sum of the loan? Otherwise... why take a loan in the first place?  

Well, technically you could perhaps afford the monthly repayments on a loan, without being able to "afford" the full loan amount upfront.  By that, I mean he may be able to afford the monthly loan payments, given his cash flow, but he doesn't just have $10k sitting around to buy Bitcoin.

A period of low cashflow does not necessarily mean broke or unable to service a loan. Besides, with bitcoin, you are typically better off to go all in at once rather than trickle in over months or years. Pretty sure there hasnt yet been a year that didnt return more than any bank loan charges these days.

thats true ,if bitcoin remains sucessfull as it has continually been ,it will blow any banks interest rates away and
you stand to make a profit or break even at worst case
even so  ,i wouldnt recommend going too deep ,your still gambling with money you dont technically have so id  
borrow a little but not so much as id be fcuked for life if bitcoin dropped to $50 or less somehow

[explorer]

[...] Besides, with bitcoin, you are typically better off to go all in at once rather than trickle in over months or years. Pretty sure there hasnt yet been a year that didnt return more than any bank loan charges these days.

Just don't do anything stupid, guys. For your family's sake, or just for your own sake. Take a balanced approach.

if bitcoin was a stock, and mature, that would have merit.

[explorer]

I'm thinking do it but only do it if your prepared to lose the money you  get loaned.  Meaning you can afford to lost that amount.  I may do the same thing but it won't be for a lot of money I just want to get in on the action.

Don't you think that, if he's considering taking a loan to buy bitcoins, that it probably means he can't afford to lose the sum of the loan? Otherwise... why take a loan in the first place?  

Well, technically you could perhaps afford the monthly repayments on a loan, without being able to "afford" the full loan amount upfront.  By that, I mean he may be able to afford the monthly loan payments, given his cash flow, but he doesn't just have $10k sitting around to buy Bitcoin.

A period of low cashflow does not necessarily mean broke or unable to service a loan. Besides, with bitcoin, you are typically better off to go all in at once rather than trickle in over months or years. Pretty sure there hasnt yet been a year that didnt return more than any bank loan charges these days.

thats true ,if bitcoin remains sucessfull as it has continually been ,it will blow any banks interest rates away and
you stand to make a profit or break even at worst case
even so  ,i wouldnt recommend going too deep ,your still gambling with money you dont technically have so id  
borrow a little but not so much as id be fcuked for life if bitcoin dropped to $50 or less somehow

Naturally you dont risk more than you can afford, no matter where it comes from.

[kireinaha]

[...] Besides, with bitcoin, you are typically better off to go all in at once rather than trickle in over months or years. Pretty sure there hasnt yet been a year that didnt return more than any bank loan charges these days.

Just don't do anything stupid, guys. For your family's sake, or just for your own sake. Take a balanced approach.

if bitcoin was a stock, and mature, that would have merit.

You do realize that the dot com bubble was based upon wild speculation of new, "cutting edge" Internet start ups, right...? Not "mature" stocks.

This argument that bitcoin is not a stock, and therefore will not behave like a stock is a logical fallacy that bitcoin investors use to bullshit themselves. The underlying theme to both is speculation, and do not fool yourself into believing the dot com scenario will not play out again.

[UnDerDoG81]

Invest what you can afford to lose, if you become too greedy it could very well come back and bite you in the ass (and karma says it will). You will live in regret for the rest of your life. Don't do it

This. Bitcoin is still speculative and likely has a binary outcome. You don't want to be homeless because it went to zero.

People have been saying that since day one 4 years ago, it's fair to say that bitcoin will never go to zero.

Unless the BTC Code gets hacked. Thats my biggest fear. I´m also thinking about to go into BTC with all my FIAT wich actually is 50K$ and stays at the bank for 2-3 years now, let the bank made cash with my money and brings me in a few hundred dollars a year. As you can see, I dont need that money right now because it was already 2-3 years on the bank now. Im thinking to invest on a long term with that. But after reading some comments here, I´m not sure anymore. But 3 weeks ago I´ve readed the same comments as well and decided to buy bitcoins with the half of my money and now it doubled already. If I would have been go full in I would have the double of the double.

[Xer0]

if you want to play with a loan with less risk, buy mining hardware and resell it at craigslist or such
or you can arbitrage exchanges with big spreads but do it on calm hours and up or sideways market

[antimattercrusader]

The key is investing is to not invest what you cannot afford to loose. If you "can't" loose it, then you'll be much more stressed, much more apt to panic sell/get emotional. Emotional investing almost always ends badly.

[vokain]

I should note you should not hesitate to take your profits and clear your loan

[antimattercrusader]

I should note you should not hesitate to take your profits and clear your loan

Not saying anything negative about OP, I've felt the same way, and considered this as well - but most people who want to take a loan out to invest in something like this, especially after such large gains, are being a bit greedy, and won't sell to clear out their loan at the right time, hold too long, then when it crashes, they'll panic sell and be left holding the bag. If this is something OP has really thought through, and has the stomach for, it'd probably work out. But the key is to expect and be able to make payments on that loan for some time with out any bitcoin profits/selling. Hold, no matter what happens on the downside. BTC crash to 50 cents? HOLD. No panic selling, 1, 2, 5 years from now, I bet you won't regret that choice.

Regarding the dot com bubble, if someone had invested at that time and held - today they wouldn't have lost (Unless the company(ies) they bought actually went bankrupt, but in general). But how many of those investors did that? They wouldn't bare to wait 5-10 years to recoup. I doubt it will take that long with BTC, but be emotionally prepared for it and you won't loose. (Probably)

[maurya78]

I would advise against leverage to play in bitcoins

Fact is while it is quite conceivable that the long term price is much higher than presently, the volatility and the time that it will take to get there is highly uncertain

This is precisely why the good advice everyone gives you on this forum is only invest funds you would be comfortable losing

You may well decide to take the loan and make out like a prince, but the downside risk you are taking on is significant
Good luck, whatever you decide to do

[explorer]

This is precisely why the good advice everyone gives you on this forum is only invest funds you would be comfortable losing

No need to be comfortable with the loss. its OK if you learn a lesson in failure. Just don't let it be a life altering one

[Dabs]

Yeah, I bought a whole bunch when BTC was below $200. Now I have a good payment history with the bank and I can borrow more. I just might do it. hehehe. Go for broke! (Still thinking of getting miners or just getting bitcoins, or doing some other alt-coin instead.)

[phillipsjk]

I am considering a loan myself: but not until I have the cash-flow to avoid being forced to sell early.

Essentially, you should be able to comfortably service the debt for a year or more as the price of Bitcoin goes through it's usual roller-coaster. That implies you should avoid loans that require you to sell if the price of Bitcoin drops too much as well.

[antimattercrusader]

I am considering a loan myself: but not until I have the cash-flow to avoid being forced to sell early.

Essentially, you should be able to comfortably service the debt for a year or more as the price of Bitcoin goes through it's usual roller-coaster. That implies you should avoid loans that require you to sell if the price of Bitcoin drops too much as well.

+1

[DaRude]

Haven't heard of a dumber idea.  Hey if you gonna ignore the "Don't bet something you can't afford to loose" advice might as well go all the way and bet with something you don't even have

[aminorex]

Borrow every dime you can, up to the limit of your ability to service the debt sustainably indepently of bitcoin price movements, and regardless of what they may be.
Spend it all on bitcoin.  When it spikes up and very clearly confirms that a decline is in progress, sell a small portion.  When it bottoms out and very clearly confirms that a rise is in progress, spend all of those proceeds to invest fully in bitcoin again.  You may not become wealthy in the process, but you will become wealthier, and as long as you think 10 times before each buy or sell, and never do it more than once a day, and have at least average intelligence, I'd say you've got a 60/40 chance of outperforming bitcoin's value relative to your reference fiat, which will be massive over the course of any given year.

Personally, I'd pay the loans down incrementally as gains accrued, but it's not really a rationally motivated behaviour, so I can't advise it.

[gla22]

I think everyone knows bitcoin is in bubble mode right now, 12B in market cap isn't justified by the amount of transactions that occur, alot of the money in BTC is speculation. The amazing thing about BTC though is that it still has the potential to rise significantly. I could see 10k a coin.

[aminorex]

i do not know that it is in bubble mode.  bubbles are fragile structures inflated by a force which, once withdrawn, results in the collapse of the structure.  forces implying a higher bitcoin price are increasing, not decreasing, and show no signs of being near the limits of their increase.  bubbles are not supported by the rationally discounted future fair value or cash flows.  the price of bitcoin is more than supported by its rationally discounted future fair value.

the only way you could infer that bitcoin was in a bubble would be if you were convinced that its future fair value, after discounting for risk-free rates and the error distribution attributed to your future value estimate, was insufficient to support current price levels.  you might be convinced of this by established fact and sound reasoning (necessary or probabilistic),  or you might be convinced of this by "intution" or "peer-pressure"  or "a skeptical disposition" or sunk cost fallacies, normality bias, etc.  if you have established facts and sound reasoning which leads you to such skepticism, please do share them.  no one can anticipate all unknown facts or creative proofs, and no one wants to be deluded by their ignorance or lack of time to explore the full space of inference.  if you do not, then please reconsider your convictions -  and especially please reconsider whether you should be spreading fallacious or delusional ideation.