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Author Topic: DAE think drugs, porn and gambling w/ BTC should discouraged?  (Read 4034 times)
ShadowOfHarbringer
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February 16, 2011, 01:58:22 PM
 #21

Disagreed. This forum is the central hub of community - meeting place of everything that relates to Bitcoin.
If we ever want this currency to go mainstream, we should not let it die.
Stuff happens on IRC.
This forum is nice to have but definitely not critical.


I'm willing to bet over 90% of those who use the internet don't use IRC, and will never want to.

Exactly. This is the "mainstream factor".
Just to be clear: IRC is not mainstream. It's viewed as a geeky thing by majority of people.

If you destroy the main forum, people who don't use IRC or TOR, simply will not use Bitcoin.

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ShadowOfHarbringer
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February 16, 2011, 02:05:59 PM
 #22

So, If IRC is so good (or even better than this forum), then why not trade arms, drugs etc there ?
Firearms are legal in the US, some drugs in the netherlands, prostitution is legal in some countries.
Bitcoin is money for the free, the forum just reflects that, the way it's run is not mine to define, but I nonetheless agree with its rules.
There is always a starting point to censorship, but there's never an ending point... Why not ban everything remotely controversial ?
(...)
The forum would just change host.

1. Yes, but you are not going to find a host which accepts arms, prostitution AND drugs at one time, because such host does not exist.
Every country in the world bans either some drugs OR prostitution OR pornography OR illegal arms OR gambling.

Porn and gambling can be legal.
Drugs and fire arms sales can be too. It's all relative.

2. It is relative but not everything, at one time in any single country. Check #1

I could care less about those topics. But if someone up high catches wind of drug sales going on here, it will bring a lot of unneeded attention and problems.
Attention is always in favor of bitcoin.

Yes, it is always in favor of bitcoin becoming an underground currency.
But i doubt that everyone here wants it to stay being underground currency for the next 3 decades.

This board is important for the long haul of the bitcoin community and the continued technical development of the system, and it would be foolish to lose that because we couldn't make a few rules on what can or cannot be sold here.
Technical development mostly happens on github and IRC, and that's only counting the main client.

Still, technical development does nothing without publicity & "mainstreamness".

To people who are unhappy, uncomfortable with the way this forum is being run, it is your right to feel that way, but you'll always get better results and general satisfaction by using your own freedom to make something that suits you (start a new forum with your rules, emphasize on what *you* feel is important, have links from this forum to yours etc.) instead of asking for other's freedom to be limited.

Very short-sighted statement.
- If we ban sale of something, only the freedom of a small group of people will be limited.
- If this forum is closed, then EVERYBODY's (who uses Bitcoin) freedom is limited.

How come you cannot see that ?

sirius
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February 16, 2011, 02:10:50 PM
 #23

1. Yes, but you are not going to find a host which accepts arms, prostitution AND drugs at one time, because such host does not exist.
Every country in the world bans either some drugs OR prostitution OR pornography OR illegal arms OR gambling.

In many legislations (Scandinavian countries for example) server admins aren't responsible for illegal forum threads.

Identifi - Decentralized address book with trust ratings
I'm not a forum admin - please contact theymos instead.
ShadowOfHarbringer
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February 16, 2011, 02:19:43 PM
 #24

davout:

Let me explain in detail why your stance is wrong for the future of Bitcoin.

There are many levels on which you can fight for freedom and fuck government. However you are not fighting on the correct level. The levels are:

LEVEL 1 "Script Kiddie" : <- You are here
- FUUUUUUUUUU GOOOO DIE GOVERNMENT, WE ARE SOOOO GONNA KICK YOUR ASS WITH BITCOIN. BRING IT ON, BITCH ! Attack government in a frontal assault, and lose (governments are prepared for that). Bitcoin stays underground currency for the next 30 years.

LEVEL 2 "Patient soldier": <- I am here
- Devise a basic strategy. Be cautious, careful, patient. Work slow, don't attract too much attention, popularize bitcoin among various traders & exchangers, and later, before government(s) realizes, there will be no turning back from Bitcoin becoming a world currency.

LEVEL 3 "General":
- Devise a "masterplan" for popularizing Bitcoin. Have a net of highly organized group of people, who do the promotion of Bitcoin in background in different countries. Have lobbysts, contacts in press & some PR guys. When you gain enough critical mass, attack with full power and consistently march towards absolute victory.

ShadowOfHarbringer
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February 16, 2011, 02:24:13 PM
 #25


1. Yes, but you are not going to find a host which accepts arms, prostitution AND drugs at one time, because such host does not exist.
Every country in the world bans either some drugs OR prostitution OR pornography OR illegal arms OR gambling.

In many legislations (Scandinavian countries for example) server admins aren't responsible for illegal forum threads.

1. Perhaps in theory this may work, but i want to see it with my own eyes to believe it...
Especially after the US government pushes to the "Scandinavian countries" to do something , like they did with Assange.

2. Still, this will be extremely bad for the publicity of Bitcoin... it will be like saying "hey, we think trading XXX, YYY and ZZZ is OK, and this is what we created Bitcoin for".
You are pushing weapons right into governments' hands...

davout
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February 16, 2011, 02:26:29 PM
 #26

Just to be clear: IRC is not mainstream. It's viewed as a geeky thing by majority of people.
I stated clearly that IRC wasn't a replacement for easier communication means.

1. Yes, but you are not going to find a host which accepts arms, prostitution AND drugs at one time, because such host does not exist.
Every country in the world bans either some drugs OR prostitution OR pornography OR illegal arms OR gambling.
I'm a host, I offered to host a mirror, check the poll.

2. It is relative but not everything, at one time in any single country. Check #1
See the mirrors thing.

Yes, it is always in favor of bitcoin becoming an underground currency.
But i doubt that everyone here wants it to stay being underground currency for the next 3 decades.
Christianity started by being underground, has been illegal too, did it kill it ? or did it make it stronger ?
Check a history book.

Still, technical development does nothing without publicity & "mainstreamness".
Check the technical state of Debian against your claim, acknowledge failure Smiley


Very short-sighted statement.
- If we ban sale of something, only the freedom of a small group of people will be limited.
- If this forum is closed, then EVERYBODY's (who uses Bitcoin) freedom is limited.

How come you cannot see that ?
See the mirror offer.
Check how the "hurr durr terrorists hate my freedom" argument leads to more and more control, more and more regulations, that it is a process that does not stop, and realize how much you can do with your own freedom.

I really dislike this "i know what's best for you" kind of attitude, which often goes together with "if you disagree you're short sighted/stupid/childish".

You have the option to open your own forum with your very own rules and make it politically correct if you feel it's the right thing to do.
And these are not just words, one day I found out that mtgox would start charging trade fees, and now we have an open source exchange. Freedom is what I preach, and it's what I do.

ShadowOfHarbringer
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February 16, 2011, 02:32:04 PM
 #27

OK, I used all the time i had for this discussion, so the same as last time - nobody is convincing anybody here.
After this forum is destroyed (which will surely happen the way you are thinking now - no doubt about it), I will start my own with rules against trading prostitution, drugs, arms etc.

BTW,
I also offered to host a mirror, so i know what I am talking about - mirror is not the same thing as the real deal.

Peace.


davout
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February 16, 2011, 02:33:31 PM
 #28

davout:

Let me explain in detail why your stance is wrong for the future of Bitcoin.

There are many levels on which you can fight for freedom and fuck government. However you are not fighting on the correct level. The levels are:

LEVEL 1 "Script Kiddie" : <- You are here
- FUUUUUUUUUU GOOOO DIE GOVERNMENT, WE ARE SOOOO GONNA KICK YOUR ASS WITH BITCOIN. BRING IT ON, BITCH ! Attack government in a frontal assault, and lose (governments are prepared for that). Bitcoin stays underground currency for the next 30 years.

LEVEL 2 "Patient soldier": <- I am here
- Devise a basic strategy. Be cautious, careful, patient. Work slow, don't attract too much attention, popularize bitcoin among various traders & exchangers, and later, before government(s) realizes, there will be no turning back from Bitcoin becoming a world currency.

LEVEL 3 "General":
- Devise a "masterplan" for popularizing Bitcoin. Have a net of highly organized group of people, who do the promotion of Bitcoin in background in different countries. Have lobbysts, contacts in press & some PR guys. When you gain enough critical mass, attack with full power and consistently march towards absolute victory.
you are funny.
let go a bit off of things, of the control-freak attitude, you'll feel much better and live a much more peaceful and happy life Cheesy

ShadowOfHarbringer
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February 16, 2011, 02:40:37 PM
 #29

davout:

Let me explain in detail why your stance is wrong for the future of Bitcoin.

There are many levels on which you can fight for freedom and fuck government. However you are not fighting on the correct level. The levels are:

LEVEL 1 "Script Kiddie" : <- You are here
- FUUUUUUUUUU GOOOO DIE GOVERNMENT, WE ARE SOOOO GONNA KICK YOUR ASS WITH BITCOIN. BRING IT ON, BITCH ! Attack government in a frontal assault, and lose (governments are prepared for that). Bitcoin stays underground currency for the next 30 years.

LEVEL 2 "Patient soldier": <- I am here
- Devise a basic strategy. Be cautious, careful, patient. Work slow, don't attract too much attention, popularize bitcoin among various traders & exchangers, and later, before government(s) realizes, there will be no turning back from Bitcoin becoming a world currency.

LEVEL 3 "General":
- Devise a "masterplan" for popularizing Bitcoin. Have a net of highly organized group of people, who do the promotion of Bitcoin in background in different countries. Have lobbysts, contacts in press & some PR guys. When you gain enough critical mass, attack with full power and consistently march towards absolute victory.
you are funny.

You are not even childish.
You're mad. This is madness.

If you think that Bitcoin is ever going to take off with "I am the fraudulent currency used by mobs, sex-slave traders, drug & arms dealers" label written all over it, then you must be mad.

I was hoping to save for my retirement in Bitcoin, now i see that was a stupid idea.

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February 16, 2011, 02:56:36 PM
 #30

Just to be clear: IRC is not mainstream. It's viewed as a geeky thing

irc was good 10 years ago. silc is the right thing.
silcnet.org secure internet live conferencing

==
People who think they know everything really annoy those of us who know everything

You can't build a reputation on what you are going to do.
davout
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February 16, 2011, 03:03:54 PM
 #31

You're mad. This is madness.

ShadowOfHarbringer
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February 16, 2011, 06:44:27 PM
 #32


Nice, but i was expecting that.
So no surprise here.

lumos
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February 16, 2011, 07:03:49 PM
 #33

Disagreed. This forum is the central hub of community - meeting place of everything that relates to Bitcoin.
If we ever want this currency to go mainstream, we should not let it die.
Stuff happens on IRC.
This forum is nice to have but definitely not critical.


I'm willing to bet over 90% of those who use the internet don't use IRC, and will never want to.

Exactly. This is the "mainstream factor".
Just to be clear: IRC is not mainstream. It's viewed as a geeky thing by majority of people.

If you destroy the main forum, people who don't use IRC or TOR, simply will not use Bitcoin.

most people don't use forums either, or even know what one is.
ShadowOfHarbringer
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February 16, 2011, 07:05:29 PM
 #34

most people don't use forums either, or even know what one is.

Yes, but this are mostly the same people who do not know what internet is.
If you are using internet, sooner or later you are going to stumble upon a forum.

lumos
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February 16, 2011, 11:04:46 PM
 #35

most people don't use forums either, or even know what one is.

Yes, but this are mostly the same people who do not know what internet is.
If you are using internet, sooner or later you are going to stumble upon a forum.

i wish this was true, sadly most people stay within the comfort zone of facebook and youtube. in class we had to say our hobbies and a boy said he liked going on forums, the whole class was like, forums, what are they??? (and this is in the uk, i think we have one of the highest number of computer users in the world)
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February 16, 2011, 11:43:39 PM
 #36

most people don't use forums either, or even know what one is.

Yes, but this are mostly the same people who do not know what internet is.
If you are using internet, sooner or later you are going to stumble upon a forum.

i wish this was true, sadly most people stay within the comfort zone of facebook and youtube. in class we had to say our hobbies and a boy said he liked going on forums, the whole class was like, forums, what are they??? (and this is in the uk, i think we have one of the highest number of computer users in the world)

Forums seem to be a matter of finding one that makes you stick. I've seen plenty of examples of people who didn't know what forums were signing up for "this thing at the website" that let them talk to others about a topic they are all interested in. Those who are interested in bitcoins as a concept will find this place and read, and those who want to use them, won't.

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ShadowOfHarbringer
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February 17, 2011, 12:43:46 PM
 #37

most people don't use forums either, or even know what one is.

Yes, but this are mostly the same people who do not know what internet is.
If you are using internet, sooner or later you are going to stumble upon a forum.

i wish this was true, sadly most people stay within the comfort zone of facebook and youtube. in class we had to say our hobbies and a boy said he liked going on forums, the whole class was like, forums, what are they??? (and this is in the uk, i think we have one of the highest number of computer users in the world)

Forums seem to be a matter of finding one that makes you stick. I've seen plenty of examples of people who didn't know what forums were signing up for "this thing at the website" that let them talk to others about a topic they are all interested in. Those who are interested in bitcoins as a concept will find this place and read, and those who want to use them, won't.

That's right.

They may be using a forum not even knowing that it is called "a forum".
BTW, Facebook & Youtube have forum systems of their own - comments is kind of a forum (but simplified) too after all.

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