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Author Topic: DAE think drugs, porn and gambling w/ BTC should discouraged?  (Read 4033 times)
Quip
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February 16, 2011, 12:59:48 AM
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Drugs are illegal, porn is NSFW, and gambling is a scam. Is there anything that can be done to reduce the impact of these things on the reputation of the community without outright banning their discussion? Perhaps a no-rules subforum not indexed by search engines and "not affiliated with the project" could be added?

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Cusipzzz
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February 16, 2011, 02:21:26 AM
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Ummmm, no.

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February 16, 2011, 02:35:23 AM
 #3

If you want freedom for yourself you have to let others be free.



That is all.
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February 16, 2011, 03:09:51 AM
 #4

Drugs are illegal, porn is NSFW, and gambling is a scam. Is there anything that can be done to reduce the impact of these things on the reputation of the community without outright banning their discussion? Perhaps a no-rules subforum not indexed by search engines and "not affiliated with the project" could be added?

Hiding what activities go on in the community at large seems to me to be a dishonest way to maintain a reputation.

Quip
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February 16, 2011, 03:15:27 AM
 #5

True, that's not a good solution. I'm just a bit worried that Bitcoin's current maintainer will get in trouble for LSD being purchased, or the bad publicity that may occur. Maybe the whole forum should be flagged as "not officially affiliated".

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February 16, 2011, 03:28:09 AM
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True, that's not a good solution. I'm just a bit worried that Bitcoin's current maintainer will get in trouble for LSD being purchased, or the bad publicity that may occur. Maybe the whole forum should be flagged as "not officially affiliated".

Bad publicity?

More like polarizing publicity!

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February 16, 2011, 03:37:36 AM
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True.

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February 16, 2011, 06:49:07 AM
 #8

If you want freedom for yourself you have to let others be free.

+1
mail2345
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February 16, 2011, 07:35:47 AM
 #9

I suggest an official disclaimer/whatever saying that the creators do not approve of using Bitcoins for these purposes and that instead they prefer it to be used as a safer/secure/private currency, but allow those uses anyway due to technical/moral/practical reasons.

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February 16, 2011, 07:48:28 AM
 #10

The core users of Bitcoin tend to be some flavour of libertarian, so the fact that we don't censor non-violent, consentual activities will not bother them.

The average joe user is never going to get as far as the forum anyhow. He will more likely use a web wallet provider than download the actual client.

The only danger that I see is that some tabloid journalist stumbles upon theses things and sees an opportunity for an outrage piece.

Bitcoin being so popular that it gets attention from tabloid journalists, that would be a nice problem to have.

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February 16, 2011, 08:08:13 AM
 #11

Is there anything that can be done to reduce the impact of these things on the reputation of the community without outright banning their discussion?


Yes. You can work to get people to offer enough services of the kind you like that the kind you don't like start to seem marginal.
As for any disclaimers, you could say bitcoin.org takes no responsibility for anything said on these forums. I don't see that it would do much good. The trade section here is destined to become obsolete anyway, if bitcoin trading gains any real traction. It's simply not a very good format for large numbers of traders to conduct their business.

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February 16, 2011, 09:09:10 AM
 #12


What's that old thing about every $100 bill has traces of cocaine on it ....? Let's here the outrage piece on that ... probably many have been down a hookers bra and across a few illegal poker tables too.

Get real, money is money, it goes wherever people go ... what's with the Victorian prudishness in year 2011?

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February 16, 2011, 09:09:30 AM
 #13

Drugs are illegal, porn is NSFW, and gambling is a scam. Is there anything that can be done to reduce the impact of these things on the reputation of the community without outright banning their discussion?

No. Nothing like this can or should be done.
It's called freedom of speech, bro.

Perhaps a no-rules subforum not indexed by search engines and "not affiliated with the project" could be added?

What for ?
Whole Bitcoin forum is already like that ;P


----
However, the only reasonable thing that can be done could be banning illegal arms, drugs & explosives trading on this forum, because there is probably no country in the world which will lawfully allow hosting of such content.
So letting whole forum die (or making it TOR-only) just to allow few people trade some illegal stuff is IMHO not very smart.

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February 16, 2011, 12:26:31 PM
 #14

However, the only reasonable thing that can be done could be banning illegal arms, drugs & explosives trading on this forum, because there is probably no country in the world which will lawfully allow hosting of such content.
So letting whole forum die (or making it TOR-only) just to allow few people trade some illegal stuff is IMHO not very smart.

the forum isn't that precious, if it dies, it dies and a new one will emerge. the market is more precious.
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February 16, 2011, 12:51:08 PM
 #15

I’m fine with drugs and porn. Why would you impose arbitrary moral dogmas on free individuals? It’s demand and supply. Except for real crime like theft, murder etc. – but I don’t think anyone would buy or sell such "services".

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ShadowOfHarbringer
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February 16, 2011, 01:06:18 PM
 #16

I’m fine with drugs and porn. Why would you impose arbitrary moral dogmas on free individuals? It’s demand and supply.

Again: This has nothing to with morals. It is about reputation & mainstream market penetration.


Except for real crime like theft, murder etc. – but I don’t think anyone would buy or sell such "services".

Hey, stop. If "no morals", then why not theft, murder ? What's wrong with it ?
[/irony]


However, the only reasonable thing that can be done could be banning illegal arms, drugs & explosives trading on this forum, because there is probably no country in the world which will lawfully allow hosting of such content.
So letting whole forum die (or making it TOR-only) just to allow few people trade some illegal stuff is IMHO not very smart.

the forum isn't that precious, if it dies, it dies and a new one will emerge. the market is more precious.

Disagreed. This forum is the central hub of community - meeting place of everything that relates to Bitcoin.
If we ever want this currency to go mainstream, we should not let it die.

If it becomes TOR-only, market penetration will be serveral times smaller than otherwise, and it can take decades for BTC to become mainstream.

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February 16, 2011, 01:08:27 PM
 #17

Disagreed. This forum is the central hub of community - meeting place of everything that relates to Bitcoin.
If we ever want this currency to go mainstream, we should not let it die.
Stuff happens on IRC.
This forum is nice to have but definitely not critical.

ShadowOfHarbringer
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February 16, 2011, 01:11:25 PM
 #18

Disagreed. This forum is the central hub of community - meeting place of everything that relates to Bitcoin.
If we ever want this currency to go mainstream, we should not let it die.
Stuff happens on IRC.
This forum is nice to have but definitely not critical.

Well, surely not critical. But still, very nice to have Tongue

So, If IRC is so good (or even better than this forum), then why not trade arms, drugs etc there ?

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February 16, 2011, 01:40:59 PM
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Disagreed. This forum is the central hub of community - meeting place of everything that relates to Bitcoin.
If we ever want this currency to go mainstream, we should not let it die.
Stuff happens on IRC.
This forum is nice to have but definitely not critical.


I'm willing to bet over 90% of those who use the internet don't use IRC, and will never want to.

I agree with Shadow here. My stance has nothing to do with morals, and I think it would be pretty silly if we let the board go up in flames because we allowed sales of drugs or other illegal goods. I've seen forums shut down for this exact reason before and the host doesn't give a damn about "freedom of speech" if they think it's going to come and bite them in the ass.

Porn and gambling can be legal. I could care less about those topics. But if someone up high catches wind of drug sales going on here, it will bring a lot of unneeded attention and problems.
This board is important for the long haul of the bitcoin community and the continued technical development of the system, and it would be foolish to lose that because we couldn't make a few rules on what can or cannot be sold here.

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February 16, 2011, 01:57:47 PM
 #20

So, If IRC is so good (or even better than this forum), then why not trade arms, drugs etc there ?
Firearms are legal in the US, some drugs in the netherlands, prostitution is legal in some countries.
Bitcoin is money for the free, the forum just reflects that, the way it's run is not mine to define, but I nonetheless agree with its rules.
There is always a starting point to censorship, but there's never an ending point... Why not ban everything remotely controversial ?

I'm willing to bet over 90% of those who use the internet don't use IRC, and will never want to.
I'm not saying IRC *replaces* the forum, neither am I stating that simple communication means accessible to most internet users are useless.

I agree with Shadow here. My stance has nothing to do with morals, and I think it would be pretty silly if we let the board go up in flames because we allowed sales of drugs or other illegal goods. I've seen forums shut down for this exact reason before and the host doesn't give a damn about "freedom of speech" if they think it's going to come and bite them in the ass.
The forum would just change host.

Porn and gambling can be legal.
Drugs and fire arms sales can be too. It's all relative.

I could care less about those topics. But if someone up high catches wind of drug sales going on here, it will bring a lot of unneeded attention and problems.
Attention is always in favor of bitcoin.

This board is important for the long haul of the bitcoin community and the continued technical development of the system, and it would be foolish to lose that because we couldn't make a few rules on what can or cannot be sold here.
Technical development mostly happens on github and IRC, and that's only counting the main client.

To people who are unhappy, uncomfortable with the way this forum is being run, it is your right to feel that way, but you'll always get better results and general satisfaction by using your own freedom to make something that suits you (start a new forum with your rules, emphasize on what *you* feel is important, have links from this forum to yours etc.) instead of asking for other's freedom to be limited.


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