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Author Topic: Help us choose the 6th cryptocoin securities market for CIPHERTRADE  (Read 10399 times)
woodrake (OP)
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November 30, 2013, 08:43:50 PM
Last edit: December 01, 2013, 02:37:43 AM by woodrake
 #1

TL;DR

We're launching CipherTrade, the new crypto-securities exchange, with the following securities markets: BTC, LTC, PPC, XPM & ANC. We have room for a 6th. Which cryptocoin do you think it should be?

Update on CipherTrade

As you may have heard, a group of us have got together to launch a new exchange which will be called CipherTrade.com. We will be offering coin-to-coin trading, but much more importantly we will be offering multiple securities markets; one for each coin.

We have brought together a power-house of people for this project:

  • Kate (me, one of Britain's top ICT entrepreneurs)
  • evilscoop (Giles, my right-hand in cipherspace)
  • Benny (issuer of BUY-A-HASH)
  • Deprived (man behind DMS*)
  • krypto (long-term crypto-investor)
  • Simon (not on the forum; the entrepreneur behind zone.in, and our lead developer)
  • richwest (another of our developers; creator of is.gd, Tweetails & other popular Web services)
  • OgonDark (an experienced, CBOT-registered futures floor trader)

We are aiming for a beta launch in mid-December, at which time we will be offering a selection of pre-registered securities (which will actually be treated as contracts, shares in which can be purchased). From early January we will be accepting new contract issuance applications.

A key part of our strategy is to become a fully registered investments securities exchange with HMRC in the UK. We shall operate within the law, and I shall endeavor to work with government to encourage them to be supportive (I have a solid track-record in influencing government policy).

Finally, we shall be offering a range of features unlike any other exchange. I do not wish to give too much away at this time, but one example is that we will be incentivising issuers by sharing trading fees with them.
 
Giles is heading up operations, obviously full time, and we have an aggressive expansion plan. We currently have over $100k of sales and marketing funding - and that's before we're IPO'd. We are going all-out for large-scale from the outset and, to be blunt, our competitors stand little hope; unless we decide to acquire them of course.

Watch this space, we'll be making more announcements as we get closer to launch. For now though, let's focus on the coins.

The coins / markets

We believe that, like types of credit card (Visa, Mastercard etc) there is room in the market for a handful of cryptocoins. In determining which coins to choose we used the following metrics:

  • Useful, functional differences to its competitors.
  • First-mover advantage and a commensurate leading market cap for its coin-type.
  • A strong ecosystem of users and developers supporting it.

Based on this, the top 6 cryptocoins which we think most likely to have a future are:

1) Bitcoin (BTC). Bitcoin can be argued to be technically inferior to its newer brethren. However, history tells us that the most popular standard wins out, not necessarily the best (for further reading I highly recommend my good friend and British government Cabinet Office adviser, Simon Wardley - eg. this post). Bitcoin's dominance is hard to dispute, with a market capitalisation now standing at over $13bn. Bitcoin also has numerous fiat (normal currency) to bitcoin exchanges, such as BitStamp in Europe and BTC China, which its younger brethren lack. It is also the most widely adopted coin in terms of merchants who accept it.

1a) Namecoin (NMC). Namecoin and Bitcoin are "co-mined" and thus it does not make sense to separate the two in many ways. It is also technically very different, with its main purpose being to secure and transfer arbitary names / keys without censorship. The intention is also that it wil be the currency for the .bit domain, for which the community is pursuing an ICANN accreditation (it is now possible to create your own global top level domain). However, we are not going to offer a securities market around Namecoin.

2) Litecoin (LTC). Litecoin is the leading competitor to Bitcoin, with its market cap of $900m it is almost as far ahead of its competitors as Bitcoin is ahead of it (in relative terms). It was the first "alt-coin" and the original Scrypt coin - it has the first-mover advantage there. Not only is Litecoin more secure than Bitcoin, it has other advantages like faster confirmations; 2.5 minutes rather than Bitcoin's 10 minutes. Thanks to its memory-intensive proof-of-work algorithm, it appears to be mostly immune to ASIC mining (unlike SHA256 coins). LTC also has a very devoted community, again second only to Bitcoin.  Many merchants do accept litecoin alongside bitcoin, and its ecosystem is growing with services like Litecoin Local (a location-based in-person brokerage similar to Local Bitcoins). There can be 84 million Litecoins in existence, four times as many as the maximum possible Bitcoins. This could be significant since the smallest unit of a bitcoin (one 10^8th) is already worth 0.001 of a dollar cent. Charles Lee, Litecoin's creator, views it as "silver to Bitcoin's gold".

3) Peercoin (PPC). Peercoin is technically different again to both Bitcoin and Litecoin. It is designed to be less energy-intensive when mining (something of which I approve) and also more secure than Bitcoin. PeerCoin takes the #3 slot with a market cap of $150m. It also have an extremely voiciferous and dedicated following, at times verging on the fanatical (many believe PeerCoin should replace all others, rather than be complimentary to them as Litecoin's community sees itself). Peercoin uses a "proof of stake" algorithm as well. Perhaps peercoin's most notable difference to its brethren is that there is no limit to the number of peercoins that can exist, though they are still "found" at a constant rate.

4) Primecoin (XPM). Primecoin differs mainly in the way it is mined. Mining Primecoins consists of finding ever-larger prime number chains. In theory this work could be useful. SHA256 and scrypt coin mining is a complete waste of power and computation by comparison. Also, Primecoin can be effectively mined with CPU, which means you can apply spare compute resources to it. CipherMine is successfully utilising the spare CPU resources on Memset's Miniserver VM hosts to mine Primecoins. Although Primecoin mining is of questionable use, it could in theory be adjusted to be more useful to the scientific community.

5) Anoncoin (ANC). Last but by no means least. Although cryptocoins are designed to be decentralised and thus somewhat anarchic, they can quite easily be traced through the blockchain combined with transmission through the public Internet. Since many of the users of cryptocoins want anonymity, a group of very clever guys created Anoncoin. Its main feature at this point is that it is routed through I2P, the Invisible Internet. Anoncoin is a scrypt-based coin like Litecoin, so shares Litecoin's advantages over SHA256 coins. We believe that governments will ultimately come down hard on cryptocoins once they comprehend the threats posed to their existence. Anoncoin therefore fills an important niche. Excitingly, the Anoncoin dev team (who can be found in the #anoncoin room on I2P IRC, and who were recently in the news) have a longer-term plan to improve anonymity either through implementing Zerocoin or the CoinJoin extension.

What we'd like from you

So, that is our starting list. There are now in excess of 100 cryptocoins and we are entirely confident that the vast majority will fail. However, we also believe, as above, that there is room for several to survive and thrive. The upper limit is probably around six or seven, and to that end we are considering an additional securities market for a final pre-launch, sixth alt-coin. We'd like to hear from you, the community, as to which coin you think should be added to our list, and why.

Kate and the CipherTrade crew.



Scorecard

I'm going to try and keep a score card matrix to capture your collective wisdom. It is a work in progress. Wink

CoinQuarkMegacoinFeathercoin
Votes312
Technical uniqueness / first mover:In niche and tech, yesNone apparent (LTC fork)None apparent (LTC fork)
Market capitalisation$14,139,969$47,287,839$32,111,689
Unique selling point / niche:SecurityUnclear"Copper to Litecoin's silver"
Community backing:Very popular at presentVery strong communityCommercial backing, fanatics, and big volumes

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November 30, 2013, 08:44:59 PM
 #2

In before the flood of people pushing whatever flavor of coin they have strong holdings in.

Read my blog, maybe it'll give you some ideas.

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November 30, 2013, 08:48:21 PM
 #3

Quark is gaining tons of attention right now.

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November 30, 2013, 08:56:34 PM
 #4

Feathercoin, Megacoin, and Quarkcoin are all in the top 10 by market cap and worth of inclusion.

Of those, priority should be given to Feathercoin as it has the most active community and well developed user base, plus much higher trading volume than the other two.


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November 30, 2013, 09:01:17 PM
 #5

  • Kate (me, one of Britain's top ICT entrepreneurs)

You like to talk big about yourself don't you  Tongue

Having said that, i think feathercoin should be included. (ofc i 'm suggesting it because i own feathercoins and i hope for yet another push)

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November 30, 2013, 09:16:58 PM
 #6

  • Kate (me, one of Britain's top ICT entrepreneurs)

You like to talk big about yourself don't you  Tongue

Having said that, i think feathercoin should be included. (ofc i 'm suggesting it because i own feathercoins and i hope for yet another push)

False modesty is the worst form of vanity.

Wallflowers don't get shit done.

Go CipherKate go!  Release MoonCoin!  Audis for everyone imminent.TM


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November 30, 2013, 11:17:00 PM
 #7

Feathercoin, Megacoin, and Quarkcoin are all in the top 10 by market cap and worth of inclusion.

Of those, priority should be given to Feathercoin as it has the most active community and well developed user base, plus much higher trading volume than the other two.

I'm afraid we have agreed to have a blanket ban on Feathercoin. Our advisory board does not believe it has a future. It is clearly a commercially-backed coin, not a product of the open source community. The strength of the order books are definitely artificial - they are too regular and too big. Also, there are many shills out there from what I can tell. Just hang out in the BTC-E Trollbox for a bit!

Megacoin is one I'd like to understand more. It has outperformed all other coins in terms of value this week (a 200x increase). But why? What is special about it?

I had not looked at Quark before. I thought it was just another scum coin. That looks very interesting indeed. A coin with a USP focused on security is definitely a niche. Of course there's the likes of Cryptogenic Bullion which strive to be extra-secure, but I don't think they have actually made any differences to the base scrypt coin other than increase the confirmations requirements.

Kate.

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November 30, 2013, 11:18:30 PM
 #8

  • Kate (me, one of Britain's top ICT entrepreneurs)

You like to talk big about yourself don't you  Tongue

Yep. I'm a classic narcissist in all ways. Vanity is perhaps my single biggest flaw! :/

Kate.

PS. I'm an awesome, unique genius. Deal with it. Wink

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November 30, 2013, 11:22:32 PM
 #9

Feathercoin, Megacoin, and Quarkcoin are all in the top 10 by market cap and worth of inclusion.

Of those, priority should be given to Feathercoin as it has the most active community and well developed user base, plus much higher trading volume than the other two.

I'm afraid we have agreed to have a blanket ban on Feathercoin. Our advisory board does not believe it has a future. It is clearly a commercially-backed coin, not a product of the open source community. The strength of the order books are definitely artificial - they are too regular and too big. Also, there are many shills out there from what I can tell. Just hang out in the BTC-E Trollbox for a bit!

Megacoin is one I'd like to understand more. It has outperformed all other coins in terms of value this week (a 200x increase). But why? What is special about it?

I had not looked at Quark before. I thought it was just another scum coin. That looks very interesting indeed. A coin with a USP focused on security is definitely a niche. Of course there's the likes of Cryptogenic Bullion which strive to be extra-secure, but I don't think they have actually made any differences to the base scrypt coin other than increase the confirmations requirements.

Kate.

The top ICT in Britain uses "shill" and "troll"? Really? Respect decrease incoming...
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December 01, 2013, 12:01:23 AM
 #10

The top ICT in Britain uses "shill" and "troll"? Really? Respect decrease incoming...

What's wrong with an ICT entrepreneur using colloquial language? I am of the net generation. I have spent years in MMO's, chats etc. "Troll" is a clearly defined term.

As for "Shill", from the OED:

noun
noun: shill; plural noun: shills
1.  an accomplice of a confidence trickster or swindler who poses as a genuine customer to entice or encourage others.
"I used to be a shill in a Reno gambling club"

Please can we get back to the topic? We genuinely want to include the community in the appropriate elements of the decision making for CipherTrade.

Kate.

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December 01, 2013, 12:43:10 AM
 #11

Please can we get back to the topic? We genuinely want to include the community in the appropriate elements of the decision making for CipherTrade.

Don't you have an advisory board for that? The same advisory board that thinks of feathercoin as "a commercially-backed coin, not a product of the open source community" while at the same time considering megacoin as a candidate  Roll Eyes

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December 01, 2013, 12:58:41 AM
 #12

Watch out for "3. A strong ecosystem of users and developers supporting it." that can change at the drop of a hat.

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December 01, 2013, 01:06:12 AM
 #13

Id vote for NVC, FTC (yea i saw you were advised not to bother but think it has more momentum than others) then maybe TRC or Devcoin...

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December 01, 2013, 01:34:17 AM
 #14

I'm afraid we have agreed to have a blanket ban on Feathercoin. Our advisory board does not believe it has a future. It is clearly a commercially-backed coin, not a product of the open source community. The strength of the order books are definitely artificial - they are too regular and too big. Also, there are many shills out there from what I can tell. Just hang out in the BTC-E Trollbox for a bit!

Megacoin is one I'd like to understand more. It has outperformed all other coins in terms of value this week (a 200x increase). But why? What is special about it?

I had not looked at Quark before. I thought it was just another scum coin. That looks very interesting indeed. A coin with a USP focused on security is definitely a niche. Of course there's the likes of Cryptogenic Bullion which strive to be extra-secure, but I don't think they have actually made any differences to the base scrypt coin other than increase the confirmations requirements.

Kate.

Pecunia non olet, your Majesty.

I advise your advisory board to be more agnostic and less judgmental, instead letting the market decide desirability of and assign legitimacy to coins.

4,500 BTC worth of Feathercoin changed hands today.  Why let BTC-E alone reap those trading fees?  Because of the 'ZOMG PUMP&DUMP SCAMCOIN' FUD common to all altcoins?  That harms my interest as a shareholder and I object.

Megacoin, despite being open-source as well, faces the exact same charges of premining and other forms of bad-faith.  It has excelled regardless, now with a market cap of $45 million.

If Litecoin has a glorious future so does its little sister Feathercoin.  Just as Litecoin is a backup for Bitcoin, Feathercoin provides Litecoin with hot swappable redundancy.

As Ciphertrade's large marking budget attests, there's nothing wrong with commercial backing.  Play time is over; the adults are arriving.

Megacoin's success springs from the same factors lifting Feathercoin: attention to translations, services, community, ease-of-use, aesthetics, and yes, marketing.

If Feathercoin is PNG at Ciphertrade, Megacoin must be for the exact same #REASONS.

And so my vote changes to Quarkcoin, in order to sidestep this rabbit hole for the time being.

All hail Queen CipherKate of Bitopia!   Cool


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December 01, 2013, 01:38:02 AM
 #15

Megacoin is one I'd like to understand more. It has outperformed all other coins in terms of value this week (a 200x increase). But why? What is special about it?
Nothing. The recent price rise is caused by uniformed Chinese investors who are throwing money at things without doing their proper research. The fundamentals of megacoin are horrible.

http://cryptolife.net/in-depth-altcoin-analysis-megacoin

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December 01, 2013, 01:53:25 AM
 #16

I'm very bullish on Quark, for a number of reasons. If you ignore coinmarketcap.com, which hasn't updated a number of coins today, Quark currently has a market capitalization of around ~80 million, bringing it into fourth place.

It looks like a junk coin because of the number of units in circulation, but I consider this to be an advantage because it's much more fungible than BTC or LTC. There's a lot of hot air being made about the 'hold vs. spend' paradox of BTC as money, and I believe the distribution of Quark solves this for quotidien transactions. Further, it has a .5% inflation rate, meaning a set 1 million Quarks mined per year; this to me encourages circulation.

I'll copy what I posted in another thread:

The top ten cryptos by market cap. are BTC (SHA256) LTC (Scrypt) Peercoin (SHA256) Quark (6-Factor) Namecoin (SHA256) Megacoin (Scrypt) Feathercoin (Scrypt) Primecoin (SHA256) Protoshares (POW) Worldcoin (Scrypt).

I firmly believe that the most secure top-runners should have difference hashing algorithms to prevent market panic if crypto flaws are found. Imagine if we received a Snowden/Greenwald expose that indicated that SHA had been compromised by either a private or national entity; consider the market panic that would ensue in that case. BTC/LTC/Quark (I know, I know, as Max Keiser says) makes sense to me. They each use different hashing algorithms and could, in theory, absorb market fluctuations from each other in the case of attack.

Protoshares has a very interesting ASIC resistant algorithm, but they aren't at all meant to be used in a currency context; much like namecoin, they have a specific niche that they fill.
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December 01, 2013, 02:01:12 AM
 #17

Megacoin is one I'd like to understand more. It has outperformed all other coins in terms of value this week (a 200x increase). But why? What is special about it?
Nothing. The recent price rise is caused by uniformed Chinese investors who are throwing money at things without doing their proper research. The fundamentals of megacoin are horrible.

http://cryptolife.net/in-depth-altcoin-analysis-megacoin

The Kim Dotcom style branding and resulting hype make it special.  Strong Chinese language support, slick graphics, and a pretty GUI don't hurt either.

Regardless, Ciphertrade should be in the business of providing a level playing field for coins to compete on, not participate interfere in the game by declaring winners and losers.

On that note, I'd like to thank all the investors (Chinese or not) who gave me the chance to finally sell my Terracoins, Ixcoins, and Freicoins at nice profit margins.   Cool


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David Chaum 1996
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woodrake (OP)
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December 01, 2013, 02:13:21 AM
 #18

Pecunia non olet, your Majesty.

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I advise your advisory board to be more agnostic and less judgmental, instead letting the market decide desirability of and assign legitimacy to coins.

4,500 BTC worth of Feathercoin changed hands today.  Why let BTC-E alone reap those trading fees?  Because of the 'ZOMG PUMP&DUMP SCAMCOIN' FUD common to all altcoins?  That harms my interest as a shareholder and I object.

You make a good point. From a business standpoint, we would be missing out on those high volumes. From the point of this thread also, we should be coming to it without prejudice.

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Megacoin, despite being open-source as well, faces the exact same charges of premining and other forms of bad-faith.  It has excelled regardless, now with a market cap of $45 million.

MEC has only very recently had its huge (200x) price increase. With an absence of any explanation of news that might have caused this, I find it concerning. It looks like a pump, in which case it will likely collapse to previous values and be among the masses once more.

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If Litecoin has a glorious future so does its little sister Feathercoin.  Just as Litecoin is a backup for Bitcoin, Feathercoin provides Litecoin with hot swappable redundancy.

I just checked which cryptocoin clients I have installed. Only BTC, LTC and FTC. When I first jumped in, I absolutely agreed with you. Also, a more business-like approach to a coin is not in itself necessarily a negative; just innovation.

I would like there to be more transparency over FTC's activities though. Regardless, based on your eloquent argument I therefore hereby retract the blanket ban and will allow FTC to be judged on its merits.

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As Ciphertrade's large marking budget attests, there's nothing wrong with commercial backing.  Play time is over; the adults are arriving.

Megacoin's success springs from the same factors lifting Feathercoin: attention to translations, services, community, ease-of-use, aesthetics, and yes, marketing.

So there is real backing behind MEC? That changes my view since it ticks the #2 requirement. I'd like to understand more about it though since, like FTC, I don't think there is room for another LTC-based/pure scrypt coin.

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If Feathercoin is PNG at Ciphertrade, Megacoin must be for the exact same #REASONS.

And so my vote changes to Quarkcoin, in order to sidestep this rabbit hole for the time being.

Hah! Smiley Well that's +1 for Quark, bringing it to 3. FTC to 2 and MEC to 1. I'll edit the OP with some stats

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All hail Queen CipherKate of Bitopia!   Cool

/em smiles benevolently at her wards and subjects

Nixzor
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December 01, 2013, 02:13:56 AM
Last edit: December 01, 2013, 02:27:42 AM by Nixzor
 #19

Yacoin http://www.yacoin.org/
variable scrypt PoW/PoS without premine. The most anti asic mining.

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December 01, 2013, 02:18:00 AM
 #20

Why even make these posts? All the posts will just be fanboys that don't actually USE their coins for anything and are the ones trading 1 LTC worth of shit a day total while the rest of us watch and laugh. Everytime.

You're just going to add whatever coin you want anyway, why even bother asking?

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