Pre-Internet Dinosaur Geek

[Mitron]

Hello,

Just wanted to start off here with an introduction.  Been dabbling in electronics since the 70's, started with computers in high school back in the early 80's with the Commodore PET.  Started my first BBS in 1989 running C-Net 64 DS2 BBS and later took over support and distribution of the software.  I also developed the CommNet Standard that networked other C-Net, Image, C*Base and Color 64/128 BBS's together into the largest Commodore BBS Network in history.

Got involved with CuSeeMe reflectors in the early 90's.  I actually connected to my ISP with my Commodore 64 to run the reflector, then connected to the reflector with my PC to do video chat.  Those were fun times.

In the late 90's and early 2000's I developed backend applications interfacing web sites with payment systems like CCBill, PayPal and a number of others.  This century I've been contributing to phpBB, Wordpress, Apache Lounge and a few other projects.

I currently own a computer, network and web sales and service company that custom builds quality computers, network and web solutions for our local community.  I got into the BitCoin world way too late, but I'm still willing to give it a go.  One of my old BBS buddies told me about his experience back in March and in June I read an article in one of the techie mags about the Butterfly Labs devices.  In July my son ordered a Jalapeno and bought me a couple Block Erupters.  I invested $40 for four additional Block Erupters and have reinvested all BTC made from then on back into more. 

I now have 11 Block Erupters and a 10 port Saitechi USB Hub.  Was hoping to build up to at least 5GH/s with the Block Erupters before upgrading to the Jalapeno or the Block Erupter Blade but it looks like the USB devices are either not available or way too pricey now.  I was four days away from getting a Blade $216 before the prices went through the roof.  At this point I guess I'll just wait on the Red Furies to come in before I buy anything else.  No way am I spending $100 for a BES or $900 for a Blade.  I'll just keep building up the BTC until something reasonable comes around.

Happy Hashing!!

[odolvlobo]

It is much smarter to look at mining equipment prices in BTC rather than $ because when you buy the equipment, you are really buying the bitcoins that it mines. Whether you buy equipment to mine bitcoins or you buy the bitcoins directly, you end up with bitcoins.

In your case, a BE Blade at 10 GH/s is going to mine at most 0.5 BTC, but $900 is about 0.75 BTC, so you would lose at least 0.25 BTC.

[Tributary]

Hi Mitron!

I'm new here also - interesting to hear your background!

Does your mining work out as profitable in the long run? I have never mined anything, but looking at the hardware stats on http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/ makes it look very difficult to get ahead of the curve and make it profitable.

[Mitron]

It is much smarter to look at mining equipment prices in BTC rather than $ because when you buy the equipment, you are really buying the bitcoins that it mines. Whether you buy equipment to mine bitcoins or you buy the bitcoins directly, you end up with bitcoins.

Yeah, but if you buy equipment with dollars, at what time do you convert it to BTC, when you buy the hardware, when you cash in your BTC or when you buy more hardware with BTC?

In your case, a BE Blade at 10 GH/s is going to mine at most 0.5 BTC, but $900 is about 0.75 BTC, so you would lose at least 0.25 BTC.

Hmm, what happens to the Blade after 0.5 BTC?  Does it blow up, stop working or what?  I'm seeing Blades for 0.37 BTC, but I would not pay that when BTC is over $1000.  Like I said, if I could have gotten one for $216 I would have purchased it, but no way at $900.

All I know is I started with 6 BES (2 given to me and 4 I bought for $40) and I now have 11 BES and a 10 port hub.  I've currently made over 0.25 BTC and all 11 are still hashing away at about two payouts per week on BTCGuild.  If I cash in all 0.25 BTC right now, I'd have $257 plus the hardware.  Have you seen what the BES are going for on Ebay and Amazon?  So for me, the $40 I have in it was a good investment

[Mitron]

Hi Mitron!

I'm new here also - interesting to hear your background!

Does your mining work out as profitable in the long run? I have never mined anything, but looking at the hardware stats on http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/ makes it look very difficult to get ahead of the curve and make it profitable.

Mine has so far, but I keep hearing that it isn't for most people.  The 6 USB Block Erupters I have allowed me to purchase 5 additional ones and a 10 port hub.  I still have 0.25 BTC and all 11 Block Erupters are still hashing away, in my book, that's ROI.  By the time the Red Furies are available in my area I should have enough for 2 or 3 of those which will double or triple my current hashing speed to 13.7 - 16.2GH/s and give me a little over a payout a day at BTCGuild.

[morrisford]

I just looked at the Jones Gear website and they have blades for $419. I bought one from them and they seem to be a very reliable company. When my order got lost in shipping they FedEx'd me another one right away.

Morris

[sadycz]

@ Mitron,

i admire your enthusiasm

i mine with 343 gh/s and ive thought im too weak... anyway dont listen to this ROI/breakeven BS... if machine produces the money invested in 1 month and then goes pure profit whats the problem... like you said , it will blow up after ??.... )

anyway i suggest going for more gh/s as it would produce enough income to preorder new HW and give you a steady nice un-workedfor - money/btc... and ofc will pay itself back...im talking about preorder-able hw, rest is way overpriced, the ones at shelf.

good luck

[odolvlobo]

i mine with 343 gh/s and ive thought im too weak... anyway dont listen to this ROI/breakeven BS... if machine produces the money invested in 1 month and then goes pure profit whats the problem... like you said , it will blow up after ??.... )
anyway i suggest going for more gh/s as it would produce enough income to preorder new HW and give you a steady nice un-workedfor - money/btc... and ofc will pay itself back...im talking about preorder-able hw, rest is way overpriced, the ones at shelf.

If you choose to remain blissfully ignorant, then that is your decision. But if you do the math, you will probably find that you would do better by just buying the BTC directly and not mining it. Do the math.

[Mitron]

I just looked at the Jones Gear website and they have blades for $419. I bought one from them and they seem to be a very reliable company. When my order got lost in shipping they FedEx'd me another one right away.

Morris

That's cool, a little too pricey for me.  If I could have gotten it for $216 I would have bought one but they doubled in price in a week, then tripled, I'm not playing that game.  Guess I was just a week too late.

I may wait on the Red Furies, but even they are a bit overpriced right now.

[Mitron]

@ Mitron,

i admire your enthusiasm

i mine with 343 gh/s and ive thought im too weak... anyway dont listen to this ROI/breakeven BS... if machine produces the money invested in 1 month and then goes pure profit whats the problem... like you said , it will blow up after ??.... )

Wow, that's awesome.  I'd love to have 343GH/s.  I started out with a goal of 66GH/s (that enough to pay rent) but I've decided to just keep this as a hobby and reinvest all my earnings in more hardware.  I may actually sell these BES on Ebay and use those funds to buy something faster.

anyway i suggest going for more gh/s as it would produce enough income to preorder new HW and give you a steady nice un-workedfor - money/btc... and ofc will pay itself back...im talking about preorder-able hw, rest is way overpriced, the ones at shelf.

good luck

Yeah, I'm still a little leary of vaporware.  Been reading too many horror stories on here about people getting ripped off.  Maybe once I get enough hardware that produces enough BTC to feel comfortable throwing it away, but at this point I want to make sure I get what I ordered in a timely fashion.  I'm not going to pay today and wait 6 months to a year for my hardware.

[Mitron]

If you chose to remain blissfully ignorant, then that is your decision. But if you do the math, you will probably find that you would do better by just buying the BTC directly and not mining it. Do the math.

Why would he buy BTC when he's already generating 7 BTC per month?  That sounds silly to me.  At that speed I'm sure he's already gotten his ROI.  At that rate he could double his hashing speed in a little over a month.  If he would have bought BTC when it was $1200, he would be at a loss right now.  At least with hardware he is still generating income.

[odolvlobo]

If you chose to remain blissfully ignorant, then that is your decision. But if you do the math, you will probably find that you would do better by just buying the BTC directly and not mining it. Do the math.

Why would he buy BTC when he's already generating 7 BTC per month?  That sounds silly to me.  At that speed I'm sure he's already gotten his ROI.  At that rate he could double his hashing speed in a little over a month.  If he would have bought BTC when it was $1200, he would be at a loss right now.  At least with hardware he is still generating income.

He is not generating 7 BTC per month. The difficulty is rising quickly so the income is dropping quickly.

Let's assume that the difficulty is rising 20% every period. This is a conservative estimate. It is likely to go up much more quickly. Here is a table showing how much BTC is earned with 343 GH/s over the next 3 months.

Period Start	| Difficulty	| Revenue	| Total Revenue
11/29/2013	| 707,408,283	| 3.4	| 3.4
12/11/2013	| 848,889,940	| 2.8	| 6.3
12/23/2013	| 1,018,667,928	| 2.4	| 8.6
1/3/2014	| 1,222,401,513	| 2.0	| 10.6
1/15/2014	| 1,466,881,816	| 1.6	| 12.3
1/27/2014	| 1,760,258,179	| 1.4	| 13.6
2/7/2014	| 2,112,309,815	| 1.1	| 14.8
2/19/2014	| 2,534,771,777	| 1.0	| 15.7
3/3/2014	| 3,041,726,133	| 0.8	| 16.5

My guess is that sadycz paid between 35 and 50 BTC for his equipment. After 3 months, he will earn back less than 17 BTC, for a loss of 18 - 23 BTC so far. Notice how quickly the revenue is dropping. He will never earn back the BTC he paid for the equipment.

If he just bought the BTC rather than tried to mine it, he would have 35 - 50 BTC. That's why he should have just bought the BTC instead of mining it.

[odolvlobo]

It is much smarter to look at mining equipment prices in BTC rather than $ because when you buy the equipment, you are really buying the bitcoins that it mines. Whether you buy equipment to mine bitcoins or you buy the bitcoins directly, you end up with bitcoins.

Yeah, but if you buy equipment with dollars, at what time do you convert it to BTC, when you buy the hardware, when you cash in your BTC or when you buy more hardware with BTC?

You convert it when you pay for the equipment because you could choose to buy the bitcoins or buy the equipment that mines the bitcoins.

In your case, a BE Blade at 10 GH/s is going to mine at most 0.5 BTC, but $900 is about 0.75 BTC, so you would lose at least 0.25 BTC.

Hmm, what happens to the Blade after 0.5 BTC?  Does it blow up, stop working or what?  I'm seeing Blades for 0.37 BTC, but I would not pay that when BTC is over $1000.  Like I said, if I could have gotten one for $216 I would have purchased it, but no way at $900.

After a while, the blade will mine hardly anything because the difficulty will be so high. It will be worth very little, possibly 0.

All I know is I started with 6 BES (2 given to me and 4 I bought for $40) and I now have 11 BES and a 10 port hub.  I've currently made over 0.25 BTC and all 11 are still hashing away at about two payouts per week on BTCGuild.  If I cash in all 0.25 BTC right now, I'd have $257 plus the hardware.  Have you seen what the BES are going for on Ebay and Amazon?  So for me, the $40 I have in it was a good investment

$257 is a great return, but if you bought bitcoins instead of the block erupters you would have about $400. You are confusing yourself by thinking in $.

[freethink2013]

Commodore PET was my first computer too After that your cv looks a lot better than mine tbh:D

Welcome aboard.

[JohnyCrypt]

Got involved with CuSeeMe reflectors in the early 90's.  I actually connected to my ISP with my Commodore 64 to run the reflector, then connected to the reflector with my PC to do video chat.  Those were fun times.

That's really cool. I remember those dial up days fondly. I use to tie up both home telephone lines trying to shotgun two 56k modems with some freeware program  . Welcome and good luck!

[Ecurb123]

Hello,

Just wanted to start off here with an introduction.  Been dabbling in electronics since the 70's, started with computers in high school back in the early 80's with the Commodore PET.  Started my first BBS in 1989 running C-Net 64 DS2 BBS and later took over support and distribution of the software.  I also developed the CommNet Standard that networked other C-Net, Image, C*Base and Color 64/128 BBS's together into the largest Commodore BBS Network in history.

Got involved with CuSeeMe reflectors in the early 90's.  I actually connected to my ISP with my Commodore 64 to run the reflector, then connected to the reflector with my PC to do video chat.  Those were fun times.

In the late 90's and early 2000's I developed backend applications interfacing web sites with payment systems like CCBill, PayPal and a number of others.  This century I've been contributing to phpBB, Wordpress, Apache Lounge and a few other projects.

I currently own a computer, network and web sales and service company that custom builds quality computers, network and web solutions for our local community.  I got into the BitCoin world way too late, but I'm still willing to give it a go.  One of my old BBS buddies told me about his experience back in March and in June I read an article in one of the techie mags about the Butterfly Labs devices.  In July my son ordered a Jalapeno and bought me a couple Block Erupters.  I invested $40 for four additional Block Erupters and have reinvested all BTC made from then on back into more. 

I now have 11 Block Erupters and a 10 port Saitechi USB Hub.  Was hoping to build up to at least 5GH/s with the Block Erupters before upgrading to the Jalapeno or the Block Erupter Blade but it looks like the USB devices are either not available or way too pricey now.  I was four days away from getting a Blade $216 before the prices went through the roof.  At this point I guess I'll just wait on the Red Furies to come in before I buy anything else.  No way am I spending $100 for a BES or $900 for a Blade.  I'll just keep building up the BTC until something reasonable comes around.

Happy Hashing!!

Welcome to the forum, I'm happy to see some of the senior folks in here who maybe have some different perspective on things.

[Mitron]

He is not generating 7 BTC per month. The difficulty is rising quickly so the income is dropping quickly.

At current difficulty he is, but I guess that depends on the calculator you use.

My guess is that sadycz paid between 35 and 50 BTC for his equipment. After 3 months, he will earn back less than 17 BTC, for a loss of 18 - 23 BTC so far. Notice how quickly the revenue is dropping. He will never earn back the BTC he paid for the equipment.

If he just bought the BTC rather than tried to mine it, he would have 35 - 50 BTC. That's why he should have just bought the BTC instead of mining it.

I guess we would have to ask him how much he paid, I know I wouldn't have paid that much.  I would think the same would apply when it comes to buying BTC.  Depending on how much BTC was worth when he bought his equipment and the amount of BTC he had to pay.  

Again, if I would have purchased $40 of BTC when it was $1200, I'd be at a loss right now too.

[Mitron]

After a while, the blade will mine hardly anything because the difficulty will be so high. It will be worth very little, possibly 0.

Yeah but added to what I already have, it would speed up the income I'm already generating.  In fact it would have defeated both difficulty increases which means it would have paid for itself rather quickly.

$257 is a great return, but if you bought bitcoins instead of the block erupters you would have about $400. You are confusing yourself by thinking in $.

Again that depends on how much BTC was when I bought it.  Had I bought it at $1200, I'd be crying right now.  $ is what pays my bills not BTC.  If I invest $40 and get $257 return, plus hardware that continues to generate income, I'm not complaining.  I'll be happy to continue to invest in hardware as long as the price is reasonable and it increases my profits.  For now, I'm happy watching my BTC grow little by little.

[Miner_2049er]

I bought an Asicminer Blade from Jones on 11/17 for $223.96, just before the latest
Bitcoin explosion.  It took me about a week to get a working proxy setup to get it
up and mining. I was ready to pull the trigger and load up a rack with 9 more blades,
but the blades in my shopping cart went up to $249.97. The current price is now $419.97.

I contacted Jones about the price change and if there could be an accommodation based
on a follow-up quantity purchase.  I acknowledged that they were no obligation to offer a price
guarantee, but what did irk me was that nearly a week has gone by and I got
no reply whatsoever. For a $2500-$4000 order, a simple "yes" or "no" would have sufficed.

I'm now looking at other options, but I will never get back the last week.

-Mark

[Mitron]

I bought an Asicminer Blade from Jones on 11/17 for $223.96, just before the latest
Bitcoin explosion.  It took me about a week to get a working proxy setup to get it
up and mining. I was ready to pull the trigger and load up a rack with 9 more blades,
but the blades in my shopping cart went up to $249.97. The current price is now $419.97.

I would have went as high as $250, but higher than that he can keep them.  I see in the Group Buy section they are going for 0.37 BTC.  That's under $400 depending on your value of BTC, current BTC rates at Coinbase would make it $390.  Still too much for my blood.

I contacted Jones about the price change and if there could be an accommodation based
on a follow-up quantity purchase.  I acknowledged that they were no obligation to offer a price
guarantee, but what did irk me was that nearly a week has gone by and I got
no reply whatsoever. For a $2500-$4000 order, a simple "yes" or "no" would have sufficed.

I'm now looking at other options, but I will never get back the last week.

I hear that, customer service in this market is pretty horrible.  You should read BFL forums if you really wanna get depressed.  So far I've delt with BTCGuild and BuyAHash, both are fast shipping (to me anyway) and were reasonably priced at the time, although now BTCGuild is out of stock and BuyAHash only has Cube's listed at $1250 so I'm not buying anything right now.  If I do buy anything it will probably only be from BTCGuild, BuyAHash, BitCanary or MinerSource, but of course that all depends on the price.