I am currently country shopping. What are some good ones?

[Lethn]

Philippines isn't really the best of plans actually with the floods as well and I can vouch for the Christian stuff because I have a friend who lives in a devout family but they clearly hate living with them lol I'd avoid any country with political instability and known crime areas unless you know a guy you can trade an RPG or a Tank for Bitcoins.

[1714699550]

1714699550

[beetcoin]

at this point, i think the best option is central/south america or southeast asia.. low cost of living, and central/south america is full of spanish speakers, which is easy to pick up if you speak english. SE asia is probably a tad bit safer to live in though.

[AnonyMint]

Sure but it makes is a lot less likely in my opinion, in fact I can imagine Americans turning on each other as massive propaganda campaigns would route out the new [insert communist/terrorist here] threat. To be honest who needs to use military when you can cut of the food/water/electricity supply in the blink of an eye. Police are probably the most dangerous and less likely to not rebel I think, I have little faith those.  

In Libya the aircraft pilots dropped their bombs and missed on purpose because they didn't want to carry out their orders and bomb innocent people who were just fighting for their lives, honestly, I know there are people on the internet who think the government are this big scary totalitarian regime but the fact is the majority of the time it's a sociopath against the rest of the world and usually the rest of the world bands together to stop them.

That said we've gone a bit off topic, but anyway yeah, picking a Bitcoin friendly country is a good idea, not sure what I'm going to do here in the UK with what's going on right now.

Sooner or later, the police state jackboots will mess with the wrong vet, a well-connected and highly-respected vet who didn't watch his buddies die face down in the sand just to return home to an unconstitutional empire led by a supreme executive.

Then it's the Battle of Athens, writ large.  Open season on the thug pigs, from Good Guys and Bad Guys alike.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Athens_%281946%29

Hands down the underpants Homelove Security is prepared this time as their labeling of you all as terrorists in recent documents is the justification for their funding from Congress to purchase 2714 tank-like armored vehicles and 6 billion hollow point rounds (illegal in war by Hague Convention). All local law enforcement have been deputized as federal police since 2006 and are now under Homelove.

Recent developments on gun control such as an executive order from Obama show that just as in Katrina, they will come to confiscate your weapons in your home and handcuff you (see the videos on linked page, also links to related articles on right pane) even in wealthy neighborhoods to incite you to attack so they can eliminate the resistance.

Katrina was a dry run. There was another dry run during the BP oil disaster.

P.S. I was born in New Orleans. And we survived Hurricane Camile (perhaps as strong as the recent typhoon that hit the Philippines) without the nonsense they did for Katrina. My sister was instrumental in the Louisiana passing a law making it illegal in the future to force people to abandon their animals. My sister personally rescued thousands of animals.

[beetcoin]

 I always wanted this , I am from istanbul whole family lives here my wife my parents my in-laws etc. So I can't go somewhere too far away but I would love to get to a place where I can both work and stay away from all this mess.

there's probably no place to go to get away from human waste. i was in pattaya thailand, where many sex tourists consider it a heaven on earth.. except for the fact that i saw many starving people sitting by the curbside.

[AnonyMint]

there's probably no place to go to get away from human waste. i was in pattaya thailand, where many sex tourists consider it a heaven on earth.. except for the fact that i saw many starving people sitting by the curbside.

Especially those who like a quirkie ladyboy BJ while kneeing in human waste.

[beetcoin]

if we're talking about ladyboys, christ.. i want no part of them, but i felt kinda bad at how desperate they were. one even grabbed my crotch, and i tried to head in a different direction.. and he jumped right into my space.

the positive side about thailand is that, i believe, some form of magic mushrooms are legal 

[romerun]

buy a yatch and sail from island to island, you are not getting younger, f*ck the job, f*k internet, there are poo load of paradise islands that nobody ever cares surrounding east malaysia, indo, philippines and what not, waiting for btc millionaires to explore

[AnonyMint]

there's probably no place to go to get away from human waste

What about Argentina along the south coast is not densely populated or Uruguay? Argentina is descending into hyperinflation again and will become dirt cheap again.

Most all of the developing countries will become dirt cheap after 2016 or 2018 (but not as cheap as 1970s and 1980s), because the QE ended up as debt in the developing world. The downside risk are the hungry masses caused by the coming crisis.

I agree that exploration is probably best because each person is different and has to find the place that fits to them.

I wrote an email to my Colombian friend (currently in Argentina) and I explained why filipinos are unique but many foreigners will not relate to what is important to the filipino as follows:

Let me give you an idea why filipinas are so much from heart, I think more than Colombians, but you tell me?

They will sing on the karaoke and sing their lungs out on the chorus of a song like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-I6-CJnOVlw
("you are still in love with him")

Also this older one (they are from Cagayan de Oro near to me):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvqX4ELysDQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtKCk7Y-6CQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5NpEipBUy4

And the boys too sing with their feelings:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UcJVDPzYI8

Here is a song in Visaya which is not the main language of Philippines, rather the southern dialect where the typhoon recently hit and where I am:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPONRwmplmo
(more photos of girls)

They feel their heart pouring out through the song. They express their heart like they are crying while they are singing.

Colombians I think express their happiness more through dancing. Filipinos love dancing too, but they really really love to sing their heart out. They want to put their heart on display for everyone around them to FEEL what they FEEL.

FEELings are the #1 here. #1. #1.

Can you sort of get it? You will feel intense love here if you can truly enter their youthful culture (most foreigners never do, because foreigners are not into wearing their heart on their sleeve). Not theories, not philosophies, not drugs to get a feeling. I mean the feelings expressed directly. As you see that girl in the video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9V_EpMGJrY), you see her eyes closed when he is hugging her, the filipinas actually inhale briskly through their nose when they kiss, meaning they are taking in your smell.

Btw, this means filipinos have a hole in their pocket as they give all their money to the moment and to those who they love. Foreigners usually experience this as, "honey I need more money for my family" and end up hating the Philippines. The lower class filipinos don't understand the concept of planning and saving money much.

Filipinos are really jokers (guess what the birdie is):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKtXsJC7I2Y

The Koreans are popular now in the Philippines, this song will probably make you sick missing Asia:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUiMaz4BNKw

Here is a filipino rock band that attained some popularity in the USA:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HP12yvlVNs8

Culture matters. You don't know a place, until you know the culture.

Enjoy your travels. The world is still a diverse and interesting place in spite of that mayonnaise spread (cover the real taste) of "McDonalds and TV" broadcasting into every corner of the globe.

[Kluge]

I'm in the Philippines. A bunch of expats are also living here, including Mr. Tagbond (founder and owner of vtc.com)

Could you give some more info? There seems to be a bit of consensus on the Phillipenes. Family and I want out of the US, too, but haven't found much of a solution considering South Africa is high on the move-to list.

Is it difficult to get a residency license (any special restrictions)? Is the Internet infrastructure decent (bandwidth caps common?)? On the political stability issue, are there any significant anti-immigrant factions? How are the taxes? Is rural living comfortable, or is it basically "live in a city or don't expect modern comforts"?

Can look a good bit of this up, but info's usually pretty vague (or flat-out inaccurate), so even if you could only answer a couple questions, would really appreciate it.

[AnonyMint]

Warning there is a very high likelihood your filipina gf has a filipino bf. For example, we used to see "her cousin" holding hands with a filipina who was married to a guy from the Netherlands every time he was in Europe.

The reason is because foreigners don't love the way a filipino does. For one thing foreigners spend too much time alone or on the computer and filipinos want continuous talking and joking nonstop with the house full of noise and people. Secondly because the filipino can ejaculate 10 or 15 times and never gets soft (I don't know why, maybe it is the food, or the smaller size or just genetic, but I verified this by asking numerous females). The foreigner typically can not satisfy the filipina in all the ways, emotionally, culturally, and sexually (despite what she might feign). He might satisfy her need for stability and family, then he has a good chance of her sacrificing for him. but he will pay for this.

Of course some foreigners find someone that can corral, but this is a struggle and the filipina will sometimes sacrifice for the stability and the money. And some filipinas have adopted western culture too, especially in the big cities. Yet the filipino culture is still lurking in them.

I'm in the Philippines. A bunch of expats are also living here, including Mr. Tagbond (founder and owner of vtc.com)

Could you give some more info? There seems to be a bit of consensus on the Phillipenes. Family and I want out of the US, too, but haven't found much of a solution considering South Africa is high on the move-to list.

Is it difficult to get a residency license (any special restrictions)? Is the Internet infrastructure decent (bandwidth caps common?)? On the political stability issue, are there any significant anti-immigrant factions? How are the taxes? Is rural living comfortable, or is it basically "live in a city or don't expect modern comforts"?

Can look a good bit of this up, but info's usually pretty vague (or flat-out inaccurate), so even if you could only answer a couple questions, would really appreciate it.

If you marry a filipina, you can get permanent residency for $30. Show up once a year at immigration. Otherwise, you can attain this on a retirement visa without marrying by depositing $15,000 in a Philippine bank if 50 or older, else $35,000 if older than 35. You show up at immigration once a year and pay a few $100s per year. You can use the money to buy a condo, but there are some significant yearly fees if you do so.

If not that, if you proceed directly to Manila immigration, they can issue you a 6 month tourist visa. This is a brand new option this year. You can extend every 2 months for up to 16 months total, cost about $60 - 70 per 2 months.

A rental which most foreigners would find acceptable is probably no less than $400 - $500 per month in the city where I am, but it increases when you get into the cities and areas that the foreigners prefer more. Of course there are dirt cheap places, I am currently renting a small house (chicken cot) for $80 per month. I rent another nice house with real hot tub in the mountain (very difficult to find) for $300 per month.

Internet sucks in most places, at least in the past. If you are lucky, you can get a good DSL connection in the major cities up to 10 Mbps. But "lucky" is an important point, because the locals pirate the lines, and enforcement against competing electromagnetic interference is lax. So sometimes it just doesn't work and it isn't fixed. It may be getting better. I recently obtained a 5 Mbps connection from Globe and so far it has been excellent. But my past experiences were horrible. Fingers crossed.

You will get nothing for internet outside the city. Maybe if you are lucky a really crappy 3G signal that will be down and drop out driving you crazy.

Food is horrible in the Philippines. Absolutely horrible in terms of what foreigners like. I am warning, the food is horrible.

I have adjusted a bit to local food, but it is still my biggest problem. And it gets worse the farther you get from Manila and Angeles City. Cebu City has a little bit to offer (Ayala Mall area, etc), but in my opinion is a traffic and dust hell hole and getting worse. Mactan Island is getting overpopulated now, not like in past decades it was nice. The Philippines economy is starting to heat up with debt, so road and building construction every where, meaning mud, dust, traffic, jackhammers, etc.. After the debt bubble crashes (2017ish), you will see your short pants on a local boy if you hang them on the clothesline outside. Even your spoons will magically disappear.

Law and order varies a lot. For example, a Belgium friend and I tried living in the native areas of Bukidnon and they will steal even meat from your table if you go inside to take a pee. Whereas, I had no problems around Mt. Apo. But on the other side is Cotabato and I've known foreigners who lost body parts in that region. Davao is one of the safest cities in Asia, but you will be bored out-of-your-mind. They don't have the nightlife here and there is basically nothing to do (except the typical filipino thing of sitting around with family and friends talking and joking, very simple life), other than explore nature. And once you exit the city, as I described above, the law & order varies a lot even 50 - 100 kilometers away.

Outside the cities expect mud, lots of mud, I mean lose your shoe and never find it again mud. Or sticky mud (imagine human feces) that takes you an hour to clean off your shoes. Of course it varies and if you spend enough on development you can fix this, except you can't. Every foreigner who has invested money (to show off their wealth) in the Philippines outside the city has lost it all, or at least lost it to his family (which might be acceptable if you are close with them and trust them). Do I need to tell stories? The locals will take it from you, one way or the other.

Filipinos are not anti-immigrant usually. They are usually warm, smiling, and open arms. But you can encounter the odd ball, especially outside the cities because some native groups are more suspicious of foreigners (some love you more, but they also typically love your money more).

Bear in mind, the Philippines is developing rapidly lately with all the USA's QE carry trade debt pouring in as bond issues by the major corporations. And the banks are loaning at very low interest rates. Thus there is much new development, and so there might be new developments in rural areas that I don't know about. I traveled a lot in the past and less so lately.

If you need more specific info or clarifications, just ask.

[Kluge]

^ Wow. Thanks for the detailed response. "Maybe if you are lucky a really crappy 3G signal that will be down and drop out driving you crazy."  That's my current situation in the US. DSL doesn't come out here. I think a semi-stable 100kb/s is pretty fuckin' awesome.

Are brides and grooms cheap and relatively safe to "rent"? Know if we get to move children? I think I'll look into the six-month tourist visa and see if someone would be willing to put us up on the cheap.

Any words on the tax situation there?

I was actually thinking about asking on the food, but didn't want to cause question overload. I'm a meats and cheese kind of guy, wife's a raw vegetables kind of person (we've never been legally married, so a marriage sham is relatively favorable to us). I'm not sure I could tolerate a 100% crops kind of place, though so long as raw milk and meats are available, we only eat out maybe four times a year, anyway.

I'm a fairly large and intimidating-looking kind of person, paranoid and without much shyness toward guns, so I'm not too worried about disorder (in fact, though I dislike people, I'm quite comfortable in disorder). Davao sounds quite enjoyable. We never go out except for groceries or if begged to by family. We live quite simply, and I don't imagine that ever changing. Out "silverware" is the cheapest stainless steel and will be no matter how much money we have. I was raised strict baptist, so I have no issues living among the hardcore Christians (or Muslims, really, though Idunno if I'd be nearly as accepted, there).

[shawshankinmate37927]

Cosidering Phuket (lots of expats there) myself on an education visa:

http://stayinginthailand.com/visa-information.html

[AnonyMint]

Then you might do well. If you choose a very religious family, you may find the lady is very appreciative of you and truly so. Because it is how you integrate with the family that matters so much to her. You marry the family, not the girl.

If your filipina wife will declare the capital gains, the capital gains tax is only 5%! The VAT is 12.5%. The income tax is lower than USA and I think the top rate is around 36%.

You can find a wife here very easily. They will accept and care for your children, if you are supporting their family too.


Oh I read further and see you want an arranged situation. Yeah I am sure you can attain that, but then you need to be careful because you are subject to extortion. I think you would be much better off with the retirement visa, much less risk. You can bring your kids and "wife" in on that same visa. I don't know what the tax situation is on a retirement visa. I think it also depends on your home country. US citizens are taxed on their worldwide income and gains.

You can get meat here, but the beef is not really the most delicious. But it is not horrible. When I say the food is horrible, I mean the prepared food mostly. They import all the cheese. The tropics aren't a great place for raising cows apparently.

On the cheap? The filipinos expect you to support them, not the other way around. Their hospitality is wonderful, but you are paying for it.

The education system is not up to western standards. Too much dancing and not enough mathematics.

Edit: if you marry into a wealthier or upper middle class family in the Philippines, your experiences might be different than what I described. Also stereotypes are not always valid. People are diverse.

[Kluge]

Then you might do well. If you choose a very religious family, you may find the lady is very appreciative of you and truly so. Because it is how you integrate with the family that matters so much to her.

If your filipina wife will declare the capital gains, the capital gains tax is only 5%! The VAT is 12.5%. The income tax is lower than USA and I think the top rate is around 36%.

You can find a wife here very easily. They will accept and care for your children, if you are supporting their family too.


Oh I read further and see you want an arranged situation. Yeah I am sure you can attain that, but then you need to be careful because you are subject to extortion. I think you would be much better off with the retirement visa, much less risk. You can bring your kids and "wife" in on that same visa. I don't know what the tax situation is on a retirement visa. I think it also depends on your home country. US citizens are taxed on their worldwide income and gains.

You can get meat here, but the beef is not really the most delicious. But it is not horrible. When I say the food is horrible, I mean the prepared food mostly. They import all the cheese. The tropics aren't a great place for raising cows apparently.

On the cheap? The filipinos expect you to support them, not the other way around. Their hospitality is wonderful, but you are paying for it.

The education system is not up to western standards. Too much dancing and not enough mathematics.

I'm 22. I don't think I'd qualify for a retirement visa quite yet. Is citizenship possible? I'd certainly be happy to fully renounce my US citizenship if I like the place after looking around, but I'm under the belief that that's impossible unless you're a citizen somewhere else. If nothing else, I'd be fine taking a "come and take it" stance, waiting for extradition from a country I don't want to be in so it can demand taxes I'd refuse to pay, anyway. I'd even be fine bribing the official overseeing my case a few thousand $ per year as necessary (Idunno how common corruption/bribes are there).

I can live with the education system. I prepared a decent home-schooling curriculum about a year ago (up to grade 6, I believe) and just need to fill out the actual lesson plans. If anything's missed, it's easy enough for me to fill in. I already have all the grade milestones I expect daughter to achieve.

I wasn't actually expecting much interaction at all with the fake family -- maybe $100 a month to both the husband and wife to leave us alone? A total annual cost for all this being <$5000, I think, would be quite reasonable to not have to support the US government (and be subject to its laws). That VAT seems quite extreme, but I can earn a fair amount without needing supplies (though if there's any kind of skilled worker visa, I certainly wouldn't meet their demands). In the US, I don't actually pay any taxes due to the deductions... Idunno how feasible that'd be in the Phillipines, though so long as they don't have an "adventurous" military force, I have no qualms paying it.

Thanks again for the responses.

ETA: I was thinking it'd be reasonable to just say the fake wife and husband live with us in a two-family room-mate situation?

[AnonyMint]

Man I am thinking you want Argentina. Beef and cheese galore. Wide open spaces, farms, mountains, beaches and a Mediterranean (Californian) climate. You can bribe your way to what you want. The bureaucracy is slower than watching paint dry, so avoid it as much as possible.

You can get citizenship in Brazil or Paraguay. Then you are free to live in Argentina. Paraguay might have the best tax arrangement.

Why Asia? For the women?

Colombia is loaded with sexy women.

That fake marriage thing is asking for trouble. I used to have complex fantasies like that, I guess that is normal when young. As you get older, experience will beat you down and you will realize K.I.S.S. (Keep It Simple Stupid).

Complex arrangements with people never work out. People are very, very unpredictable. Don't learn the hard way.

http://tdvpassports.com/

[human]

Ideally I would like a place where I can just live in a small place on a beach with Internet connection for a few hundred bucks a month.

I'm even fine with just being international and living in a new place every 6 months or so.

Or maybe even a Bitcoin hub like silicon valley for Bitcoin (I know Berlin has a lot of buzz, that is certainly an option).

Same here! I am also searching for a warm place for the winter at least and maybe even longer. And I already considered almost all the places mentioned in this thread here.

I would definitely like to have some fellow Bitcoin people around me and also hire some local developers.

Maybe we can also find a group of people who would like to move to the same place or nearby. Maybe renting out a villa in Thailand or caribbean together and creating a BTC hub.

Most beautiful would be a city with a nice beach and mountains behind. Somewhere between half a million and 4 million inhabitants. Nice infrastructure, fast internet, no or few/simple taxes, simple laws and friendly people. English speaking is a plus but I would also like to pick-up a new language.

[AnonyMint]

Ideally I would like a place where I can just live in a small place on a beach with Internet connection for a few hundred bucks a month.

I'm even fine with just being international and living in a new place every 6 months or so.

Or maybe even a Bitcoin hub like silicon valley for Bitcoin (I know Berlin has a lot of buzz, that is certainly an option).

Same here! I am also searching for a warm place for the winter at least and maybe even longer. And I already considered almost all the places mentioned in this thread here.

I would definitely like to have some fellow Bitcoin people around me and also hire some local developers.

Maybe we can also find a group of people who would like to move to the same place or nearby. Maybe renting out a villa in Thailand or caribbean together and creating a BTC hub.

Most beautiful would be a city with a nice beach and mountains behind. Somewhere between half a million and 4 million inhabitants. Nice infrastructure, fast internet, no or few/simple taxes, simple laws and friendly people. English speaking is a plus but I would also like to pick-up a new language.

There is a community in Alcoy, Cebu of foreigners. Maybe they can help out. I had forgotten about this:

http://www.alternativephilippines.de/references.htm

[Kluge]

Man I am thinking you want Argentina. Beef and cheese galore. Wide open spaces, farms, mountains, beaches and a Mediterranean (Californian) climate. You can bribe your way to what you want.

You can get citizenship in Brazil or Paraguay. Then you are feel to live in Argentina. Paraguay might have the best tax arrangement.

Why Asia? For the women?

Colombia is loaded with sexy women.

The Phillipines are getting a lot of mention in the thread and I hadn't previously considered it (I haven't looked at South America at all, though, not because of any particular reservations, but because Africa and eastern Europe seemed most reasonable). I have no interest in women (other than "wife"). The widespread corruption is actually why I was considering South Africa. I'd love to be accepted as a tax-paying person in a foreign country so long as the up-front fees are low. I love the start the US has given me, but I really just don't want to live here. I don't want to have to bribe people to be accepted as an equal citizen in another country, but I'll do it if it gets me out of the major moral dilemma I'm in. All of my reservations toward paying taxes immediately disappear so long as the military is defensive rather than murderous, but most countries have a pretty grim attitude toward potential immigrants.

All I want is a quiet place where I can be eccentric online, earn my money there, not feel ashamed because of where I live, and be a complete recluse "in public." AFAIK, nobody offers citizenship just because a potential emigrant has moral qualms with the government insisting ownership over where they live. Everyone says "well, if you don't like the US, just move," but it's so much harder to do than say.

I'll look into some of the S.American countries you mentioned.

[AnonyMint]

Re-read the prior post, I added a link for you:

http://tdvpassports.com/

Philippines is not the right place, as you can't get citizenship here (unless you are Chinese and know how to work the system and deal with extortion because your fellow Chinese own the government).

Cambodia is an option for citizenship, but I don't trust it. I think they will reneg on it later.

Africa just seems so volatile and dangerous, although I've never been there.

I think Central or South America is more viable. I am assuming you are an American, because you mention by implication the US military. I agree with you, I am American and I don't like paying for that. As well, really bad sh8t is coming to the USA.

Note violence can be very high in latin american countries, so I would seek out low population density and more european mix, such as Argentina, Chile, Uruguay, or Paraguay.

[Dabs]

Hmmm... There is something here. I don't know what it could be. I keep reminding everyone else about the following:

1. political instability
2. typhoons (there's a storm every year, not just this year.)
3. rebels
4. power outages (and electric rates above $0.20+ per kwh)
5. volcanos (rare, but happened a few times already.)
6. corrupt policemen, corrupt traffic enforcers, corrupt government officials. (PNoy is trying to get rid of them. He will fail.)

You can just look up history and see for yourself. It's not like the country can hide the truth that goes on. Every other blog has something, and even the locals have their own blogs, facebooks, tweets, etc.

However, some people manage to find what they want here, and stay.

I was born here, so ... I'm quite biased. But AnonyMint, Tagbond, and a bunch of others ... Why did they stay here?

Some of the good points about staying here:

1. Language. Almost everyone understands English. But you would do better if you learned Tagalog or Cebuano, or whatever dialect of whatever place you will stay in.
2. The best beer? San Miguel?
3. The best beaches? Boracay. And there are 100 others that are hidden and not mentioned in any book.
4. Culture. Some of these provinces have buildings really old, usually churches.
5. If you open a foreign currency account, no one can touch it, or look at it. Not even the Senate over ruled during the ousting of the Supreme Court Chief Justice. Of course, you'd do a lot better to just keep your stash in bitcoins.
6. If you become a citizen, you can buy full auto guns. If you're into that thing. (Even if you don't become a citizen, there are ways to get them, but I'll leave that for you to discover when you arrive here.)

Maybe there's something else, but I can't think of it.