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Author Topic: Please Read!! Help Stop This Madness.  (Read 7445 times)
AdaptQuickly
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December 02, 2013, 07:39:06 PM
Last edit: December 04, 2013, 09:43:50 AM by Raoul Duke
 #1

I'm going to make this as straight forward as possible.

About Me:

Noel Arteaga
Illinois State University
Managerial Economics/ Business Administration

Graduate Dec 14, 2013


I am currently finishing up my undergraduate degree in Managerial Economics.

I have a week and a half to go (WHOOP).

I have focused my studies this past year on Bitcoin.

My senior project is on Bitcoin.

The whole economics department knows me as a Bitcoin fanatic.







Here is the problem:

The entire economics department refuses to accept that bitcoin has any credibility.

The professor who is overseeing my senior project is constantly discrediting it via corrections on my work in progress.

I have gone to entire economics department to talk about the economics of bitcoin and the outcome is always the same:

 They see bitcoin as a fad with no credibility.





The department keeps arguing against bitcoin with these points.

1) Bitcoin is deflationary and it will cause it to fail. (facepalm)

2) Bitcoin is doomed to fail because people hoard it instead of spending it. No Economy exist.(facepalm x2)

3) Nobody uses Bitcoin for anything (Not Mainstream=Not real???) (Facepalm x 1,000,000)



My Goal: Raise Awareness about Bitcoin. Starting with the economics department and then expanding to the whole campus then the whole town.


I will presenting my senior project next week with the hopes of raising awareness.

I have also been putting up flyers with websites that inform people about bitcoin. The feedback from the student body has been overwhelming! I get roughly 20 emails a week from people that see the flyers and wish to learn more! Currently working on a twitter feed and facebook page.

My biggest piece of evidence: I have established an online wallet and provided the address to whole economics department and information on how to check it.

I hope to raise awareness by getting people to send donations with messages supporting Bitcoin, messages that help dis-spell the BS people that "know economics" think about Bitcoin.

 It not about the amount of donation its about the messages that can be attached to the transaction!

I want to shove it in their face (in a passive way) that not only is Bitcoin alive but growing and growing fast. I want to show the world the power of bitcoin!



Bitcoin/Message Address: 1Sk9iEy1UN1q5TkzmX71ayxy2kQEmkb84 

Please Keep the messages clean, I want bitcoin to seem as credible as possible.






This is my attempt to prove who I am. If you have any questions please PM me!

http://s10.postimg.org/dvaxnjgid/Classes.jpg
http://s9.postimg.org/6sdjgbjyz/image.jpg





Tip Jar: 169kfp3JMJMHpUQWLqE3DiTV3JfRDT8zZ9 Thanks!!
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December 02, 2013, 07:49:46 PM
 #2

I have gone to entire economics department to talk about the economics of bitcoin and the outcome is always the same:

 They see bitcoin as a fad with no credibility.





The department keeps arguing against bitcoin with these points.

1) Bitcoin is deflationary and it will cause it to fail. (facepalm)

2) Bitcoin is doomed to fail because people hoard it instead of spending it. No Economy exist.(facepalm x2)

3) Nobody uses Bitcoin for anything (Not Mainstream=Not real???) (Facepalm x 1,000,000)



My Goal: Raise Awareness about Bitcoin. Starting with the economics department and then expanding to the whole campus then the whole town.
I don't want those people to accept or understand Bitcoin until it's too late.

They are part of the propaganda arm of the system that traps kids into debt slavery to support their lifestyle; they deserve to miss the boat.
AdaptQuickly
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December 02, 2013, 07:53:06 PM
 #3

I understand where you are coming from. I'm currently working on getting an image of the account onto the TVs that are on a loop displaying various news updates. I want the student body to become aware of the impact that bitcoin can bring to the world!

Tip Jar: 169kfp3JMJMHpUQWLqE3DiTV3JfRDT8zZ9 Thanks!!
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December 02, 2013, 11:33:30 PM
 #4

Frankly your Economics department is correct in each of it's criticisms, you may of course point to a few threads of real trade that other Zealots like yourself engage in as a kind of Cargo-cult activity trying to 'summon' an economy out of a deflationary currency. 

But this dose not a real economy make, most people claiming to spend BTC immediately buy replacement BTCs when ever they spend them (making a net dollar purchase), or are just creaming off some of their wealth increase.  Lastly you have Mining equipment purchases which are clearly just an attempt to get more BTC's and should be seen as a COST of running the system, not it's economy.

If you are not able to understand that BTC is a speculative mania and not a currency then frankly you deserve to be flunked in Economics.

 
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cr1776
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December 02, 2013, 11:52:07 PM
 #5

Regarding number 1, 2, and 3.  SilkRoad proves your point as one counter example. People spent because they wanted something.

Not enough time to reply more right now, but they plainly are not aware of the additional uses for bit coin.
PenAndPaper
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December 03, 2013, 12:09:25 AM
 #6

Your department makes some real arguments about bitcoin and in order to answer those arguments you ask for donations.
Sorry but it doesn't make any sense...  Roll Eyes
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December 03, 2013, 03:56:04 AM
 #7

Here's another one I came across today. Traditional economists just don't get it, do they.

http://neweconomicperspectives.org/2013/12/fair-price-bitcoin-zero.html

Eric Tymoigne, Ph.D. is Assistant Professor of Economics at Lewis and Clark College and Research Associate at The Levy Economics Institute.
 His research expertise is in: central banking, monetary economics, and macroeconomics.

Looking to review Bitcoin / Crypto mining Hardware.
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December 03, 2013, 05:53:04 AM
 #8

Tell them that alt-coins add an inflationary aspect to cryptos, so the deflationary problem is solved.

That's why people in the future would prefer to spend less good crypto moneys according to Gresham's law and not spend/keep as a store of value their better crypto moneys (which will become less good and which will be better - this is still not quite clear, so far Bitcoin is in the lead of being better money as it's a pioneer crypto).

And that's when there'll be enocomy and real exchange of money for goods and services.

So, basically, all their arguments are based on bitcoin being 'deflationary', alt-coins are here to combat that, and successfully, as there are dozens of them now. And if there is not enough alt-coins, more alt-coins can always be invented, just like central banks can print more money, also at a few clicks on the keyboard.
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December 03, 2013, 06:52:40 AM
 #9

Frankly your Economics department is correct in each of it's criticisms, you may of course point to a few threads of real trade that other Zealots like yourself engage in as a kind of Cargo-cult activity trying to 'summon' an economy out of a deflationary currency. 

But this dose not a real economy make, most people claiming to spend BTC immediately buy replacement BTCs when ever they spend them (making a net dollar purchase), or are just creaming off some of their wealth increase.  Lastly you have Mining equipment purchases which are clearly just an attempt to get more BTC's and should be seen as a COST of running the system, not it's economy.

If you are not able to understand that BTC is a speculative mania and not a currency then frankly you deserve to be flunked in Economics.
This is very true. I know that anecdotes don't mean much, but for quite a long time, that is exactly what I did... until I started getting a monthly paycheck in bitcoins. Until you've received a paycheck in bitcoin, it is hard to think of Bitcoin as a currency. Getting a bitcoin paycheck changes all of that, as if some switch gets flipped. So, what you need to do is come up with a way flip that switch for people.

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December 03, 2013, 07:06:46 AM
 #10

Bitcoin is fundamentally threatening to neo-Keynesian economists and those who favor left political stances.  Paul Krugman for example leads the NYT in a nearly single voice of dissent with his ridicule of bitcoin.  He, for example is constantly calling BTC 'deflationary' while calling the USD either stable or occasionally 'slightly deflationary' (lol).  I imagine your profs are of a similar mindset.

We DO know bitcoin is most likely in a speculative bubble at the moment.  If it is not it is changing history.

What we do NOT know yet is your professors are wrong in the weight of their bias.  I think they are.  But only time will tell.They are most certainly right about some of their stances on btc.
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December 03, 2013, 07:17:33 AM
 #11

Inform them that your Senior Project is about the experimental aspect of Bitcoin: nobody is 100% sure how this is gonna work out, it's beta (0.9xx), yet its being tested right now all over the world.

Then start the presentation. You'll be forgiven of all your future sins, like being a fanatic.
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December 03, 2013, 07:28:25 AM
 #12

Hi - Perhaps you would have better luck and have less grounds for attack if you take a more long term view and focus your research on the idea of cryptocurrencies in general, as a superior financial technology - rather than bitcoin specifically.

The arguments about it being deflationary are therefore voided as that's specific to bitcoin. You can argue along the lines of "when" bitcoin fails, it will be replaced by something superior that improves upon its problems, as in its current form its kind of a beta version...and subsequent versions will entail further evolution of the technology until we have a system that is ready for mass uptake.

I'm not saying I think bitcoin is doomed to fail...but your tutors obviously do! So for the purposes of your project, if you want a higher mark you won't get anywhere by complaining to your professors that they are simply wrong about bitcoin. It will just annoy them and further cement the view they already have. Instead, you'd need to find arguments that are not direct contradictions of their own opinions, make them think a bit more long term about the technological and economic impact of this type of technology - etc.

The less you mention the word bitcoin, the better. There is definitely a game to be placed in academia.

good luck with your project Smiley


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December 03, 2013, 08:15:02 AM
 #13

let the establishment drown in their own ignorance. theres a reason these people teach at these institutions: because theyve already been brainwashed by the system they need to keep selling to younger generations or suffer the consequences of being out a job and on the streets where true sellouts deserve to be.
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December 03, 2013, 08:24:58 AM
 #14

You can tell them as part of your research I bought a game with Bitcoin and I plan to buy gold/silver then link them several hundred stores so they can shut up Cheesy that said, I've given up arguing with people who refuse to see evidence right in front of them.
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December 03, 2013, 08:36:31 AM
 #15

If you are not able to understand that BTC is a speculative mania and not a currency then frankly you deserve to be flunked in Economics.

Emotional argument, garbage.  1) All investments are speculation. 2) I'll bet you think this "internet mania" will die soon, too.
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December 03, 2013, 08:48:54 AM
 #16


The department keeps arguing against bitcoin with these points.

1) Bitcoin is deflationary and it will cause it to fail. (facepalm)

2) Bitcoin is doomed to fail because people hoard it instead of spending it. No Economy exist.(facepalm x2)

3) Nobody uses Bitcoin for anything (Not Mainstream=Not real???) (Facepalm x 1,000,000)



Maybe you can quote one of the papers on how much Bitcoin is currently in circulation as a medium of exchange and compare that with how much Bitcoin is currently being used for store of value.

If you do, also post it here; I am interested to know.
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December 03, 2013, 09:09:13 AM
 #17

If this really is a final year project, then the project must already have a hypothesis or at least a research direction, right? I cannot see that anywhere in your post. The only message I am getting is that you want to convince your economics department that bitcoin will succeed.

If that is what you believe, then argue your way out with economic theories, market observations or historical data. You don't seem to be doing that... However, I don't think you have a strong argument (in economic theories). Besides, professors will wiggle their way out with even more obscure theories.

I believe your effort will be better served if you take another direction:
To assess what kind of equity is Bitcoin by comparing it to others such as currency, gold, stocks, real estate...
Only after that can you evaluate it's future success or failure (with strong supporting arguments)

Quote
My biggest piece of evidence: I have established an online wallet and provided the address to whole economics department and information on how to check it.

Why don't you point the "biggest piece of evidence" to a charity address or well known bitcoin organisation donation address, instead of your own?
An amorous cow-herder
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December 03, 2013, 09:50:14 AM
 #18

Maybe you can quote one of the papers on how much Bitcoin is currently in circulation as a medium of exchange and compare that with how much Bitcoin is currently being used for store of value.

If you do, also post it here; I am interested to know.
Well, there is blockchain.info, currently about 80k transactions per day or close to 1tps. Probably Satoshi-Dice is responsible for a large amount of the transactions. For comparison, according to bitcoin.it Paypal has 46 tps, Visa about 4000 tps.
So, even including satoshi dice, the bitcoin network doesnt do a lot of transactions compared to PayPal, and even less compared to credit card companies.
Another amusing thing is to look at the amount of "real" money in the exchanges. ~50k BTC (less than 0.5% of current available coins) could crash all exchanges into single digit dollar ranges.
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December 03, 2013, 10:01:15 AM
 #19

Quote
My biggest piece of evidence: I have established an online wallet and provided the address to whole economics department and information on how to check it.

Why don't you point the "biggest piece of evidence" to a charity address or well known bitcoin organisation donation address, instead of your own?

There are already about 1000 people with bitcoin holdings of over $1 million. We are the biggest piece of evidence. Month ago the number was barely 150.
An amorous cow-herder
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December 03, 2013, 10:13:47 AM
 #20

There are already about 1000 people with bitcoin holdings of over $1 million. We are the biggest piece of evidence. Month ago the number was barely 150.
Well, theoreticly, yes. But if the first 150 would all cash out at the same time the remaining 850 would no longer be millionares.
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