India = massive potential

[keystroke]

There are already a couple of exchanges established in India, i've been in touch and already been investigating potential there. The regulation is a hell hole which is the main hurdle that is why you didn't see any major exchange pop up. I believe recently some news came out that the government regulators are freaking out about bitcoin, just study the Gold climate there and you'll realize how hard the government makes it there for regular people to import and profit from gold.

and with bitstamp & BTC-e around it's easy enough for them to just trade there. Indians speak and read english so they don't need dedicated Indian websites. Also rupees are constantly depreciating so going to USD is also a plus for them.

Yea from what I can tell after being here for a month, the regulation would just mess everything up. The people are friend and smart but as usual the governments are screwing everyone. I was on first class in a train and an educated looking woman was sitting across from me, she had some ID cards and stuff showing she worked for the reserve bank and had a copy of the FT. I should have struck up a conversation about BTC but I was not feeling in the mood at the time. Maybe at the conf there will be some representatives.

I had problems here because there is a 10,000 rupee limit on the ATM per day. That is a lot of money in India and I certainly don't spend that much on a routine basis but I needed 30k rupee for renting a house by the beach. It took 3 days to get it out! Then the ATMs give 500 INR notes which are pretty big, and most places won't have change. So I had to learn how to carry stacks of 500s, 100s, 50s, 20s, 10s, and maybe a few 5s. Really a pain and it took me awhile to get everything sorted out as I am used to using plastic in the US - and of course everyone in the US can almost always make change for anything other than the largest bills. So I was thinking how useful BTC would be just from that basis. Not to mention the fact that the rupee's exchange rate just happens to be falling apart.

At the airports there are signs saying gold imports are limited. If you check Google News you can see people getting arrested for bringing it in and not declaring it. I've read that the rate is about $80-$120 more per ounce in India. So you would think BTC is perfect for them but it is a problem of education. Also if I were to sell BTC why would I really want the rupees? So I can see BTC commanding a premium in India - bifurcated exchange rates due to capital controls?

[DrahogErusiel]

it would be nice to see a boom in Ecuador.. probably far off though. they currently use USD and the assholes who tanked the Ecuadorian dollar (Sucre) are sitting pretty in the states with out any chance of the US gov. sending the bankers and former president back to face trial. fucking ass holes FUCK PISSES ME OFF!

(sorry off topic a little)

[bryant.coleman]

At the airports there are signs saying gold imports are limited. If you check Google News you can see people getting arrested for bringing it in and not declaring it. I've read that the rate is about $80-$120 more per ounce in India.

Gold is more expensive in India because there is a flat 10% import duty (and additional VAT, which is changes from state to state). So the lowest price for which you can get gold in India will be 10% more than the international price. The government seems to be cash-strapped, after undertaking a lot of populist measures (elections are only a few months away).

There is a chance of change in the government after the 2014 elections. Everyone is pretty occupied with the upcoming elections and no one is bothering about the BTCs.  I think the regulation scene will become clearer only after the elections.

[beetcoin]

can we just expand this to "any country that has a fucked up economic/financial system, which is basically the entire world."

[bryant.coleman]

can we just expand this to "any country that has a fucked up economic/financial system, which is basically the entire world."

Well.... In democracy, the ruling political parties are forced to take up more and more "populist" measures. This is the case everywhere, be it the US or India.

As a rule, in a welfare state less than 10% of the population will engage themselves with productive activity. The remaining 90% will be dependent on this 10% to give them means for living.

Take India's case for example. Out of a population of some 1,250 million there are only around 33,739,124 (33.7 million) income tax payers. A very large part of the population is dependent on subsidies and handouts.

The challenge for the Indian government is to feed the remaining 1,216 million with tax extracted from the 34 million. Now there is a delicate balance here. You can't squeeze the 34 million too much (Atlas Shrugged like situation will emerge). And you can't lower the tax beyond a certain point (you'll lose votes from the 1,216 million).

When the balance is altered in favor of the productive population (by reducing subsidies, benefits.etc), the government will collapse.

When this balance is altered in favor of the unproductive population (when government punishes the productive population with heavier taxes), the financial system will collapse (as it is currently happening all over the world).

[gsingh]

Usually indian government is really fussy but it might not be the case this time. Chinese influence is key here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3bb0Utaj5A

[PenAndPaper]

Given the latest news from china i don't think that we can hope big for india. Not that those are bad news but if you compare the super bullish china with the weird banking system of india i don't think that anything good will come up.

[Jcw188]

You might think because India is against gold imports they wouldn't like BTC either.  Not sure what India's problem with gold is, do they fear it would replace the rupee?  then the argument goes for BTC too

[bryant.coleman]

You might think because India is against gold imports they wouldn't like BTC either.  Not sure what India's problem with gold is, do they fear it would replace the rupee?  then the argument goes for BTC too

The argument is not like "India is against gold imports they wouldn't like BTC either"

The reason why I am saying that the RBI will act against BTC is because:

1. The Indian government is cash strapped right now. They are thinking about tightening the Capital controls.

2. A lot of Indian "dirty money" is stashed abroad. The RBI might believe that legalizing the BTC can increase the velocity and volume of the outflow.

3. Due to increased taxes, already a lot of smuggling (gold, electronics, medicines, alcohol.etc) is taking place. The RBI has reasons to doubt that the legalization of BTC can lead to the circumvention of the existing tax authority, as the transactions are anonymous.


BTW... the reason why heavy taxes were imposed on gold was not because of the fear that gold will replace the INR. It was because of the sharply rising fiscal and trade deficit. India imports somewhere between 1,000 and 2,000 tonnes of gold every year, which was putting a lot of pressure on the economy. Well... the opposition is accusing that the government did that to encourage smuggling of gold (99% of the gold smugglers who were caught recently had some links to businessman who supported the ruling party).

[btcprice]

All these countries you guys are posting about as potential bitcoin markets only speaks volumes of the viability of bitcoin. Soon all these countries will involved and the demand will increase while the supply stays the same. That can only mean an increase in the price in the long-run.

China was only the tip of the iceberg.

[marketermac]

Also if I were to sell BTC why would I really want the rupees? So I can see BTC commanding a premium in India - bifurcated exchange rates due to capital controls?

Um, you just said it yourself. So you can rent your beach house for 30k ruppee's without having to deal with ATMs. Just trade your bitcoins..assuming the beach house renter doesn't know what BTC is. Or if they need some of the 30k to pay back the mortgage on the beach house because you paid them in BTC.

Lots of reasons people might want to convert it back.

[rocks]

can we just expand this to "any country that has a fucked up economic/financial system, which is basically the entire world."

Well.... In democracy, the ruling political parties are forced to take up more and more "populist" measures. This is the case everywhere, be it the US or India.

As a rule, in a welfare state less than 10% of the population will engage themselves with productive activity. The remaining 90% will be dependent on this 10% to give them means for living.

Take India's case for example. Out of a population of some 1,250 million there are only around 33,739,124 (33.7 million) income tax payers. A very large part of the population is dependent on subsidies and handouts.

The challenge for the Indian government is to feed the remaining 1,216 million with tax extracted from the 34 million. Now there is a delicate balance here. You can't squeeze the 34 million too much (Atlas Shrugged like situation will emerge). And you can't lower the tax beyond a certain point (you'll lose votes from the 1,216 million).

When the balance is altered in favor of the productive population (by reducing subsidies, benefits.etc), the government will collapse.

When this balance is altered in favor of the unproductive population (when government punishes the productive population with heavier taxes), the financial system will collapse (as it is currently happening all over the world).

This is why a constitutional republic that limits government has been proven to be so successful in the past. Government is limited in how far it can take and finance populist measures. But that ship has sailed and we're on the long downward path again now.

[matt608]

Buttercoin is set to launch in India by February 2014, that should help open up India to BTC pretty nicely.

[Jcw188]

Buttercoin is set to launch in India by February 2014, that should help open up India to BTC pretty nicely.

I'm praying Buttercoin is just a joke regarding the lack of nourishment for many Indians...it's not a real thing is it?

[Johnny Bitcoinseed]

can we just expand this to "any country that has a fucked up economic/financial system, which is basically the entire world."

Well.... In democracy, the ruling political parties are forced to take up more and more "populist" measures. This is the case everywhere, be it the US or India.

As a rule, in a welfare state less than 10% of the population will engage themselves with productive activity. The remaining 90% will be dependent on this 10% to give them means for living.

Take India's case for example. Out of a population of some 1,250 million there are only around 33,739,124 (33.7 million) income tax payers. A very large part of the population is dependent on subsidies and handouts.

The challenge for the Indian government is to feed the remaining 1,216 million with tax extracted from the 34 million. Now there is a delicate balance here. You can't squeeze the 34 million too much (Atlas Shrugged like situation will emerge). And you can't lower the tax beyond a certain point (you'll lose votes from the 1,216 million).

When the balance is altered in favor of the productive population (by reducing subsidies, benefits.etc), the government will collapse.

When this balance is altered in favor of the unproductive population (when government punishes the productive population with heavier taxes), the financial system will collapse (as it is currently happening all over the world).

Hit the nail on the head.  This is exactly what is happening in the USA.  Too many parasites will destroy the host.

[PenAndPaper]

Buttercoin is set to launch in India by February 2014, that should help open up India to BTC pretty nicely.

Is there anyone that partnered already with buttercoin to open an exchange or they plan to open the very first one in india?

[bryant.coleman]

Hit the nail on the head.  This is exactly what is happening in the USA.  Too many parasites will destroy the host.

There is also a risk of Cyprus-like situation happening, if the country goes bankrupt as a result of the populist financial measures. The government can seize the assets of its citizens (BTC in our case).

[Cryptolator]

I sure hope that India will jump into Bitcoin soon !

[SnarfOn]

How is their no Indian exchange yet!

[bryant.coleman]

How is their no Indian exchange yet!

Hmm.. you can exchange INR for BTC (or vice-versa) through Indian sites such as www.buysellbitco.in and rbitco.in. Localbitcoins.com is also another option.