Can you still use Bitcoin to buy and sell goods in China?

[pera]

Simple question, I want to know if this translation from Google is right:

"Notice" clearly the nature of Bitcoin, think Bitcoin is not issued by the monetary authorities, does not have, such as legal tender currency of the mandatory attributes, not the true meaning of money. From the nature point of view, Bitcoin is a specific virtual goods, does not have legal status and monetary equivalent, can not and should not be used as currency in circulation in the market. However, Bitcoin transaction as a commodity trading behavior on the Internet, ordinary people have the freedom to participate at your own risk premise.

Original text:

《通知》明确了比特币的性质，认为比特币不是由货币当局发行，不具有法偿性与强制性等货币属性，并不是真正意义的货币。从性质上看，比特币是一种特定的虚拟商品，不具有与货币等同的法律地位，不能且不应作为货币在市场上流通使用。但是，比特币交易作为一种互联网上的商品买卖行为，普通民众在自担风险的前提下拥有参与的自由。

This statement was issued by: PBC (People's Bank of China), MIIT (Ministry of Industry and Information Technology), CBRC (China Banking Regulatory Commission), CSRC (China Securities Regulatory Commission), and CIRC (China Insurance Regulatory Commission).

Source: http://www.pbc.gov.cn/publish/goutongjiaoliu/524/2013/20131205153156832222251/20131205153156832222251_.html


Please note that I'm not asking if Bitcoin was "banned" in China since it clearly says that ordinary people can trade it as a "commodity", I want to know if the automatic translation from Google is correct and that Bitcoin can't be used as a currency anymore.

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[EvilPanda]

IMo they are just stating the obvious - bitcoin isn't a currency in the legal terms (is not defined or backed by a government of a country) so they (as a government) discourage people from using it as it is volatile and may lead to a loss. They aren't gonna fight it or anything, they just don't recognize it as a means of payment - nothing new.

What happened today illustrates how people act under pressure. They see some unclear news and run for the door like it's the end of the world. If I were a CEO of some big company like Apple or Dell I would buy few hundred BTC and announce that I'm gonna start introducing BTC payments. People would go "shut up and take my money" imediately causing a jump in price - few hours of work, lots of cash earned.

[pera]

Yeah, China govt (and Hong Kong too) already said that "investing" on Bitcoin is high-risk, but now what I am worried about is that they are saying (as far as I understand from that automatic translation and some comments on Weibo) that you can't use Bitcoin in the market.

[wolongong]

IMo they are just stating the obvious - bitcoin isn't a currency in the legal terms (is not defined or backed by a government of a country)

Except for enforcing anti counterfeiting laws and accepting it as a tax credit what modern government still "backs" a currency w/ anything?

[EvilPanda]

IMo they are just stating the obvious - bitcoin isn't a currency in the legal terms (is not defined or backed by a government of a country)

Except for enforcing anti counterfeiting laws and accepting it as a tax credit what modern government still "backs" a currency w/ anything?

Yes - with its image. If a country loses control of the currency it loses credibility as well. I don't think EU would survive as a whole if suddenly euro lost value.
A country has certain ammount of valuables stored in the treasury, so if its central bank issues a currency it acts like it was selling shares. You know that until the country exists (or until it decides to suck you dry with taxes) you will be able to buy stuff with their money. If a country goes bankrupt or has some internal issues it affects the value of the currency. As far as I know USA used to value every $ in gold before they went printing frenzy.

[bryant.coleman]

As far as I could understand, it is possible for individuals to purchase and sell their bitcoin or exchange it for something else.

[dmartig]

IMo they are just stating the obvious - bitcoin isn't a currency in the legal terms (is not defined or backed by a government of a country)

Except for enforcing anti counterfeiting laws and accepting it as a tax credit what modern government still "backs" a currency w/ anything?

Yes - with its image. If a country loses control of the currency it loses credibility as well. I don't think EU would survive as a whole if suddenly euro lost value.
A country has certain ammount of valuables stored in the treasury, so if its central bank issues a currency it acts like it was selling shares. You know that until the country exists (or until it decides to suck you dry with taxes) you will be able to buy stuff with their money. If a country goes bankrupt or has some internal issues it affects the value of the currency. As far as I know USA used to value every $ in gold before they went printing frenzy.

no country has valuables stored in the treasury. countries have varying amounts of gold which do not come anywhere near the value of their currency. the US gov stopped backing the dollar with gold in 1933. in 1945 the bretton woods agreement was signed and made the dollar the world's reserve currency. countries could exchange their dollars for gold at the US trerasury. in 1971 nixon closed that window thanks to a run on US gold led by france because of the profligate printing that was going on to fund the great society and the war in vietnam. kissinger cut a deal with saudi arabia to be their body guard in exchange for opec taking dollars for oil. hence you have the birth of the petro dollar.

central banks do not sell "shares " of anything they issue currency with debt. they do not create the currency to pay the interest on that debt. old debt is paid with new debt ad finitum till the house of cards collapses

[EvilPanda]

no country has valuables stored in the treasury.

They have hungarian crown and drugs in fort knox. What about english crown jewels, every country has works of art worth milions. They also have natural resources and land which have a value.

[pera]

http://jiasule.baidu.com/news/52a18454bf9efd290bfdcc69/

So Jiasule/Baidu is not accepting Bitcoin anymore, but is this related with the government's announcement?
I can't tell because the translation from Google is fck'd

[EvilPanda]

http://jiasule.baidu.com/news/52a18454bf9efd290bfdcc69/

So Jiasule/Baidu is not accepting Bitcoin anymore, but is this related with the government's announcement?
I can't tell because the translation from Google is fck'd

They never fully did, just allowed users to buy ddos protection for btc (which is a small fraction of their whole offer). That could've been compared to a book store allowing people to buy 1 specific title for btc. It's more of an adrvertisement move than a deal.

[wolongong]

no country has valuables stored in the treasury.

They have hungarian crown and drugs in fort knox. What about english crown jewels, every country has works of art worth milions. They also have natural resources and land which have a value.

Sure, they have lots of things, but they are never going to give you any of it ever in exchange for the fiat they print.

[pera]

Finally I think we have a real answer:

but essentially if bitcoin is not a currency in China and china as a state only recognizes one single currency which is the RMB. therefore all merchants, stores and services can only accept the RMB. since bitcoin is not a currency and not a recognized currency so it's actually a logical conclusion that China for now will not allow goods and services to be sold and paid for by bitcoin

Bobby Lee (CEO of BTC China)

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1ssw8v/china_for_now_will_not_allow_goods_and_services/

[bryant.coleman]

http://jiasule.baidu.com/news/52a18454bf9efd290bfdcc69/

So Jiasule/Baidu is not accepting Bitcoin anymore, but is this related with the government's announcement?
I can't tell because the translation from Google is fck'd

The decision by Baidu has nothing to do with the government announcement. They dumped BTC because it was too volatile.