28nm vs 20nm

[flexgroo]

can someone help me with the new miners coming out, i am looking at the new neptune, and was wondering if the change in the size is a big difference from 28 to 20nm


Neptune is our first 20nm product and will be shipping in Q1/Q2 of 2014.
The stats and performance that we can release today are
Minimum 3000GH/s of hashing speed that 3TH Over 5 times the speed of our first Jupiter release
   (we reserve the right to increase this as we get closer to shipment)
A 30% reduction in watts per GH
Based on the existing Jupiter design (See photo, however this may change as development progresses)
Shipment begins in Q1/Q2 of 2014
Bitcoins first ever 20nm miner brought to you form the company who shipped the first 28nm bitcoin miner
Limited batch of 1200 units,
Payment for this product is bitcoins and bank transfer only.
All refunds will be refunded in dollars and you can refund up to shipment
$ 12,995.00

i can scrape together 13k but want to make sure, it will last more then a few month to try and make a profit, if the bitcoin stays close to its current value

thanks for any help

[aznatama]

20nm uses less power, and you can shove more transistors in the same area.  Thus, they are faster...

google is your friend...

[xstr8guy]

I have a Neptune preorder but not only because it's 20nm.  KNC did a great job with their 28nm series and I believe that they will go way beyond just the die shrink from 28nm to 20nm for Gen 2.  I think they've learned a lot from Gen 1 and will make further improvements.  But only time will tell, I guess.

[Gator-hex]

The 28nm KnC is no more power efficient than a bunch of 55nm BitFuries.
It was about 25-30% better $ per hash though.

I don't think a 20nm KnC will be any more efficient than a 28nm by Bitfury or Black Arrow

[xzempt]

I think KNC missed the boat on not doing another batch of 28nm......   but  they are the millionaires.... 


I guess they know what they are doing

[takagari]

Haha, definetly the millionaires.

What a hell of a business these little beasts are

[rograz]

I think KNC missed the boat on not doing another batch of 28nm......   but  they are the millionaires....  

https://www.kncminer.com/news/news-24

I guess they decided to not release more 28nm units due to lack of competitors who are actually shipping. Amazing isn't it, a company who actually sticks to their promises.

[minternj]

I think KNC missed the boat on not doing another batch of 28nm......   but  they are the millionaires....  

https://www.kncminer.com/news/news-24

I guess they decided to not release more 28nm units due to lack of competitors who are actually shipping. Amazing isn't it, a company who actually sticks to their promises.

Who said they aren't making more chips. They always said they will mine too. They are making them for themselves while they locked up their customers in the next gen chip.

[Syke]

Who said they aren't making more chips. They always said they will mine too. They are making them for themselves while they locked up their customers in the next gen chip.

Yup. Now that all the R&D is done, they can make really cheap miners and keep them in their hosting center for massive profits.

[Sitarow]

I think KNC missed the boat on not doing another batch of 28nm......   but  they are the millionaires....  

https://www.kncminer.com/news/news-24

I guess they decided to not release more 28nm units due to lack of competitors who are actually shipping. Amazing isn't it, a company who actually sticks to their promises.

seems the hardware market is heating up.

[Wesly]

I think KNC missed the boat on not doing another batch of 28nm......   but  they are the millionaires....  

https://www.kncminer.com/news/news-24

I guess they decided to not release more 28nm units due to lack of competitors who are actually shipping. Amazing isn't it, a company who actually sticks to their promises.

seems the hardware market is heating up.

There is a good chance KnC might release more miners if and when HashFast and Cointerra finally shipped en masse.

Speaking of HashFast, they have just released a video showing their module board being assembled...  Fast forward to 0:26 for a laugh 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rl6L8nt3Hc&feature=youtu.be

[RickJamesBTC]

Lots of hashfast boards going to ship with missing caps?

[kendog77]

Knc produced about the most power inefficient 28nm rig on the market, so I suspect their 20nm product will offer a similar power efficiency as other companies 28nm products.

[RoadStress]

Knc produced about the most power inefficient 28nm rig on the market, so I suspect their 20nm product will offer a similar power efficiency as other companies 28nm products.

Proof? How power efficient are CT and HashFail?

[kendog77]

Knc produced about the most power inefficient 28nm rig on the market, so I suspect their 20nm product will offer a similar power efficiency as other companies 28nm products.

Proof? How power efficient are CT and HashFail?

I wasn't even talking about CT or HashFail because they both failed at their power targets and use over 1W/GH at the wall.

November Jupiters use about 1.3W/GH at the wall, and the Neptune is supposed to be ~30% more efficient which puts it at ~1W/GH. Several competitors have already matched that including the Coincraft rigs, Dragon knockoffs, BitFury rigs, the Bitmain S2, and Spondoolies-Tech.

Several of these competitors (BitFury and Bitmain) have produced a product that uses 1W/GH using older 55 nm tech.

Also, the next generation ASICMiner chip is supposed to use well under 1W/GH.

[RoadStress]

Knc produced about the most power inefficient 28nm rig on the market, so I suspect their 20nm product will offer a similar power efficiency as other companies 28nm products.

Proof? How power efficient are CT and HashFail?

I wasn't even talking about CT or HashFail because they both suck.

November Jupiters use about 1.3W/GH at the wall, and the Neptune is supposed to be ~30% more efficient which puts it at ~1W/GH. Several competitors have already matched that including the Coincraft rigs, Dragon knockoffs, BitFury rigs, the Bitmain S2, and Spondoolies-Tech.

Several of these competitors (BitFury and Bitmain) have produced a product that uses 1W/GH using older 55 nm tech.

Also, the next generation ASICMiner chip is supposed to use well under 1W/GH.

So only undervolted CoinCraft rigs matched KnC. They are the only ones using 28nm. The rest aren't. You said "the most power inefficient 28nm rig" The other rigs aren't 28nm so you can't compare them.

[kendog77]

Knc produced about the most power inefficient 28nm rig on the market, so I suspect their 20nm product will offer a similar power efficiency as other companies 28nm products.

Proof? How power efficient are CT and HashFail?

I wasn't even talking about CT or HashFail because they both suck.

November Jupiters use about 1.3W/GH at the wall, and the Neptune is supposed to be ~30% more efficient which puts it at ~1W/GH. Several competitors have already matched that including the Coincraft rigs, Dragon knockoffs, BitFury rigs, the Bitmain S2, and Spondoolies-Tech.

Several of these competitors (BitFury and Bitmain) have produced a product that uses 1W/GH using older 55 nm tech.

Also, the next generation ASICMiner chip is supposed to use well under 1W/GH.

So only undervolted CoinCraft rigs matched KnC. They are the only ones using 28nm. The rest aren't. You said "the most power inefficient 28nm rig" The other rigs aren't 28nm so you can't compare them.

That even makes my point more valid because it's not cheap to design and manufacture a bleeding edge 20nm product.

I strongly suspect that it will be much less expensive per GH for Chinese manufacturers to pump out older 28nm / 40nm / 55nm ASIC miners as fast as they can make them than it will be for Knc to deliver a 20nm product.

Basically, ignore the 20nm hype because it means very little in this game. It all comes down to price, delivery time, stability, and power efficiency.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

I think KNC missed the boat on not doing another batch of 28nm......   but  they are the millionaires....  

https://www.kncminer.com/news/news-24

I guess they decided to not release more 28nm units due to lack of competitors who are actually shipping. Amazing isn't it, a company who actually sticks to their promises.

seems the hardware market is heating up.

There is a good chance KnC might release more miners if and when HashFast and Cointerra finally shipped en masse.

Speaking of HashFast, they have just released a video showing their module board being assembled...  Fast forward to 0:26 for a laugh 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rl6L8nt3Hc&feature=youtu.be

Team HashFast put a lot of thought into deciding what 30+ seconds they were going to upload from the minutes of footage taken. Image how must thought goes into the other aspects of their business if this is the barometer of what they opted to show the world.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

Knc produced about the most power inefficient 28nm rig on the market, so I suspect their 20nm product will offer a similar power efficiency as other companies 28nm products.

Proof? How power efficient are CT and HashFail?

I wasn't even talking about CT or HashFail because they both suck.

November Jupiters use about 1.3W/GH at the wall, and the Neptune is supposed to be ~30% more efficient which puts it at ~1W/GH. Several competitors have already matched that including the Coincraft rigs, Dragon knockoffs, BitFury rigs, the Bitmain S2, and Spondoolies-Tech.

Several of these competitors (BitFury and Bitmain) have produced a product that uses 1W/GH using older 55 nm tech.

Also, the next generation ASICMiner chip is supposed to use well under 1W/GH.

So only undervolted CoinCraft rigs matched KnC. They are the only ones using 28nm. The rest aren't. You said "the most power inefficient 28nm rig" The other rigs aren't 28nm so you can't compare them.

That even makes my point more valid because it's not cheap to design and manufacture a bleeding edge 20nm product.

I strongly suspect that it will be much less expensive per GH for Chinese manufacturers to pump out older 28nm / 40nm / 55nm ASIC miners as fast as they can make them than it will be for Knc to deliver a 20nm product.

Basically, ignore the 20nm hype because it means very little in this game. It all comes down to price, delivery time, stability, and power efficiency.

You forgot one thing - HONESTY!

[Entropy-uc]

You forgot one thing - HONESTY!

[Tom Hanks] Honesty?  THERE'S NO HONESTY IN BITCOIN! [/Tom Hanks]