Bitcoin will be destroyed by early adopters

[hilariousandco]

Well, people are still buying things with it. In fact, in the longrun I think you could probably argue that it is undervalued. The more and more merchants start accepting it the more valuable it will become. All it'll take is one big company to start accepting it and boom. Gradual or quick mainstream acceptance will push the price up vastly. Let's see what the price of 1BTC is and what it can get you in a years time. Only time will tell on this one. I'm looking forward to the ride.

No, it is not undervalued if the merchants don't accept it right now. Such mode of "reasoning" is called wishful thinking - "an attitude or belief that something you want to happen will happen though it may not happen or unlikely to happen at all". With such volatility I doubt strongly it will occur any time soon if ever ("one big company to start accepting it and boom")...

But merchants do accept it. Such mode of "reasoning" is more optimism than wishful thinking. As I said, only time will tell and I'm enjoying the ride.

[deisik]

Well, people are still buying things with it. In fact, in the longrun I think you could probably argue that it is undervalued. The more and more merchants start accepting it the more valuable it will become. All it'll take is one big company to start accepting it and boom. Gradual or quick mainstream acceptance will push the price up vastly. Let's see what the price of 1BTC is and what it can get you in a years time. Only time will tell on this one. I'm looking forward to the ride.

No, it is not undervalued if the merchants don't accept it right now. Such mode of "reasoning" is called wishful thinking - "an attitude or belief that something you want to happen will happen though it may not happen or unlikely to happen at all". With such volatility I doubt strongly it will occur any time soon if ever ("one big company to start accepting it and boom")...

But merchants do accept it. Such mode of "reasoning" is more optimism than wishful thinking. As I said, only time will tell and I'm enjoying the ride.

Their numbers are minuscule at best. And the "merchants" you're talking about come primarily from gambling industry and bitcoin mining equipment production. I'm not taking into account somebody selling a Tesla car here or buying a house there for bitcoins. These cases are sporadic and far in between...

[hilariousandco]

Well, people are still buying things with it. In fact, in the longrun I think you could probably argue that it is undervalued. The more and more merchants start accepting it the more valuable it will become. All it'll take is one big company to start accepting it and boom. Gradual or quick mainstream acceptance will push the price up vastly. Let's see what the price of 1BTC is and what it can get you in a years time. Only time will tell on this one. I'm looking forward to the ride.

No, it is not undervalued if the merchants don't accept it right now. Such mode of "reasoning" is called wishful thinking - "an attitude or belief that something you want to happen will happen though it may not happen or unlikely to happen at all". With such volatility I doubt strongly it will occur any time soon if ever ("one big company to start accepting it and boom")...

But merchants do accept it. Such mode of "reasoning" is more optimism than wishful thinking. As I said, only time will tell and I'm enjoying the ride.

Their numbers are minuscule at best. And the "merchants" you're talking about come primarily from gambling industry and bitcoin mining equipment production. I'm not taking into account somebody selling a Tesla car here or buying a house there for bitcoins. These cases are sporadic and far in between...

Why are you putting merchants in brackets? There's more than you think and more are popping up every day. There's quite a few big developments happening here in the UK already. I reckon the rate of businesses accepting bitcoins next year will be increasing quite dramatically. It's early days for Bitcoin/crypotcurrencies, but it's obviously making waves.

[deisik]

Their numbers are minuscule at best. And the "merchants" you're talking about come primarily from gambling industry and bitcoin mining equipment production. I'm not taking into account somebody selling a Tesla car here or buying a house there for bitcoins. These cases are sporadic and far in between...

Why are you putting merchants in brackets? There's more than you think and more are popping up every day. There's quite a few big developments happening here in the UK already. I reckon the rate of businesses accepting bitcoins next year will be increasing quite dramatically. It's early days for Bitcoin/crypotcurrencies, but it's obviously making waves.

I've heard that more than half of bitcoin transactions come from some gambling site, don't quite remember its name (maybe SatoshiDice?). It is not the number of transactions that actually counts but rather volume transacted, but still it is no more than idle talk really unless we have accurate figures at our disposal...

[pjviitas]

You are assuming that the early adopters have any say in whether Bitcoin lives or dies.

Bitcoin simply cannot be controlled.  Anyone who tries will fail...period.

[An amorous cow-herder]

You are assuming that the early adopters have any say in whether Bitcoin lives or dies.

Bitcoin simply cannot be controlled.  Anyone who tries will fail...period.

So, you are saying the people with the majority of stakes in this game have nothing to say?
And as for controlling, do you think China will fail because of limiting the use in their country?

[pjviitas]

You are assuming that the early adopters have any say in whether Bitcoin lives or dies.

Bitcoin simply cannot be controlled.  Anyone who tries will fail...period.

So, you are saying the people with the majority of stakes in this game have nothing to say?
And as for controlling, do you think China will fail because of limiting the use in their country?

People without Bitcoin will simply move to a different currency making Bitcoin worthless...its that simple.

[psyclon]

You are assuming that the early adopters have any say in whether Bitcoin lives or dies.

Bitcoin simply cannot be controlled.  Anyone who tries will fail...period.

even the guy holding 10% of all the coins? you cant be serious. there are 5 people holding at least 20-30% of all coins. they could do it any time.

[niothor]

You are assuming that the early adopters have any say in whether Bitcoin lives or dies.

Bitcoin simply cannot be controlled.  Anyone who tries will fail...period.

even the guy holding 10% of all the coins? you cant be serious. there are 5 people holding at least 20-30% of all coins. they could do it any time.

You can't destroy bitcoin with the price , end , point , end.
Even if they control 10% each time they pull a stunt like that they lose a few of their coins , things can't go like that forever.

[Rampion]

Yes, those who get scared they will lose their millions and dump 10000+ or more at the market, starting an avalanche. I'm convinced that pump and dump has been going on for a long time, the question is, when will they overdo it to kill it all.

This has been debated since 2011 but yet it never happened.

Early adopters with tens of k's of BTC are strong hands. They already witnessed a crash that made BTC lose 96% of its value (2011 - $32 to $2) and they didn't blink. Those who wanted to cash out hundred of thousands of BTC (Like Sirius or Druid) already did it.

They are mostly nerds, geeks and visionaries - not the average joe who invested in BTC his life savings.

Plus, everybody with such holdings knows they cannot just have $100MM on Gox or Bitstamp and have them wired to their personal account. That just cannot happen and they know it.

And FYI: they are already "cashing out". Slowly and gradually. And even if they go crazy and want to cash out in a single big dump, they won't be able to. Maybe you don't know it, but somebody already dumped half a million coins on Gox in 2011, taking the price to $0.01. Do you know what happened? Gox halted trading and then rolled back that order.

[deisik]

even the guy holding 10% of all the coins? you cant be serious. there are 5 people holding at least 20-30% of all coins. they could do it any time.

You can't destroy bitcoin with the price , end , point , end.
Even if they control 10% each time they pull a stunt like that they lose a few of their coins , things can't go like that forever.

You implicitly assume here that they can only sell their stash. Why would they? It would be logical for them as the earliest adoptors to protect their advantage and competitive edge and at the same time make use of an opportunity to raise some money whenever possible...

[pjviitas]

You are assuming that the early adopters have any say in whether Bitcoin lives or dies.

Bitcoin simply cannot be controlled.  Anyone who tries will fail...period.

even the guy holding 10% of all the coins? you cant be serious. there are 5 people holding at least 20-30% of all coins. they could do it any time.

You can't destroy bitcoin with the price , end , point , end.
Even if they control 10% each time they pull a stunt like that they lose a few of their coins , things can't go like that forever.

Bitcoin is already at the point where I don't want to use it as a currency and am thinking of moving to litecoin.

In order for Bitcoin to be usable I need to be able to buy a bunch without breaking the bank and not be afraid to spend them.

If the price of Bitcoin is too high it does 2 things:
1. Forces me to buy small amounts of BTC for a price that I simply can't afford.  Buying "what I can afford" kills me in exchange fees.
2. Makes me feel like its too valuable to spend.

Contrary to what some people think, some people want to use BTC as it was intended...to buy and sell shit.

With that being said, everyone who engages in BTC needs to put their speculation hat on once in awile because of it's volatility.

[niothor]

You are assuming that the early adopters have any say in whether Bitcoin lives or dies.

Bitcoin simply cannot be controlled.  Anyone who tries will fail...period.

even the guy holding 10% of all the coins? you cant be serious. there are 5 people holding at least 20-30% of all coins. they could do it any time.

You can't destroy bitcoin with the price , end , point , end.
Even if they control 10% each time they pull a stunt like that they lose a few of their coins , things can't go like that forever.

Bitcoin is already at the point where I don't want to use it as a currency and am thinking of moving to litecoin.

In order for Bitcoin to be usable I need to be able to buy a bunch without breaking the bank and not be afraid to spend them.

If the price of Bitcoin is too high it does 2 things:
1. Forces me to buy small amounts of BTC for a price that I simply can't afford.  Buying "what I can afford" kills me in exchange fees.
2. Makes me feel like its too valuable to spend.

Contrary to what some people think, some people want to use BTC as it was intended...to buy and sell shit.

With that being said, everyone who engages in BTC needs to put their speculation hat on once in awile because of it's volatility.

And you're safe buying 1000$ worth of LTC and not 1000$ of BTC.
This is a bit amazing considering we're talking about a difference of 1/6 market cap.

You'll have a far more influence in price swings when buying 1000$ worth of LTC than btc.

[zimmah]

You are assuming that the early adopters have any say in whether Bitcoin lives or dies.

Bitcoin simply cannot be controlled.  Anyone who tries will fail...period.

even the guy holding 10% of all the coins? you cant be serious. there are 5 people holding at least 20-30% of all coins. they could do it any time.

it would be obvious, and people will move to another coin, they'd lose all their money if they even tried, noone would be stupid enough to do it, and if they would, they'd be the only victims of their own greed.

[zimmah]

You are assuming that the early adopters have any say in whether Bitcoin lives or dies.

Bitcoin simply cannot be controlled.  Anyone who tries will fail...period.

even the guy holding 10% of all the coins? you cant be serious. there are 5 people holding at least 20-30% of all coins. they could do it any time.

You can't destroy bitcoin with the price , end , point , end.
Even if they control 10% each time they pull a stunt like that they lose a few of their coins , things can't go like that forever.

Bitcoin is already at the point where I don't want to use it as a currency and am thinking of moving to litecoin.

In order for Bitcoin to be usable I need to be able to buy a bunch without breaking the bank and not be afraid to spend them.

If the price of Bitcoin is too high it does 2 things:
1. Forces me to buy small amounts of BTC for a price that I simply can't afford.  Buying "what I can afford" kills me in exchange fees.
2. Makes me feel like its too valuable to spend.

Contrary to what some people think, some people want to use BTC as it was intended...to buy and sell shit.

With that being said, everyone who engages in BTC needs to put their speculation hat on once in awile because of it's volatility.

the stupidity, it hurts.....

you don't have to buy whole bitcoins. if you have $500 to invest, buy ~0.7 bitcoins, if you have $5 to invest, buy ~0.007 bitcoins. if you have $0.05 to invest, buy a few satoshi.

Litecoin is not better than bitcoin in any way, and in my opinion litecoin is only used by daytraders and people who are too stupid to realize litecoin does not have any advantages over bitcoin and is just a cheap ripoff.

Bitcoin too valuable to spent? of course not, you can spent 0.005BTC bitcoin to buy a coffee, who cares? In a few year you may pay 0.000005BTC for a coffee, no big deal.

If you can afford to buy it in dollars, you can afford to buy it in bitcoins.

If you can't afford it in bitcoins, you can't afford it in dollar either. It doesn't matter if a bitcoin is worth $10,000,000 or $0.10

[SuperHakka]

listen to me good, all this talk of early adopters and strong hands. everybody has a price and real life circumstances. each person knows what there btc wallet is worth and also what it can buy in the real world. when their desire for the real world things overcomes their love for bitcoin, at that point, no more strong hands baby!

[zimmah]

Yes, those who get scared they will lose their millions and dump 10000+ or more at the market, starting an avalanche. I'm convinced that pump and dump has been going on for a long time, the question is, when will they overdo it to kill it all.

This has been debated since 2011 but yet it never happened.

Early adopters with tens of k's of BTC are strong hands. They already witnessed a crash that made BTC lose 96% of its value (2011 - $32 to $2) and they didn't blink. Those who wanted to cash out hundred of thousands of BTC (Like Sirius or Druid) already did it.

They are mostly nerds, geeks and visionaries - not the average joe who invested in BTC his life savings.

Plus, everybody with such holdings knows they cannot just have $100MM on Gox or Bitstamp and have them wired to their personal account. That just cannot happen and they know it.

And FYI: they are already "cashing out". Slowly and gradually. And even if they go crazy and want to cash out in a single big dump, they won't be able to. Maybe you don't know it, but somebody already dumped half a million coins on Gox in 2011, taking the price to $0.01. Do you know what happened? Gox halted trading and then rolled back that order.

why are you using MM instead of just M?

[Rampion]

Yes, those who get scared they will lose their millions and dump 10000+ or more at the market, starting an avalanche. I'm convinced that pump and dump has been going on for a long time, the question is, when will they overdo it to kill it all.

This has been debated since 2011 but yet it never happened.

Early adopters with tens of k's of BTC are strong hands. They already witnessed a crash that made BTC lose 96% of its value (2011 - $32 to $2) and they didn't blink. Those who wanted to cash out hundred of thousands of BTC (Like Sirius or Druid) already did it.

They are mostly nerds, geeks and visionaries - not the average joe who invested in BTC his life savings.

Plus, everybody with such holdings knows they cannot just have $100MM on Gox or Bitstamp and have them wired to their personal account. That just cannot happen and they know it.

And FYI: they are already "cashing out". Slowly and gradually. And even if they go crazy and want to cash out in a single big dump, they won't be able to. Maybe you don't know it, but somebody already dumped half a million coins on Gox in 2011, taking the price to $0.01. Do you know what happened? Gox halted trading and then rolled back that order.

why are you using MM instead of just M?

Just because it is the standard abbreviation i see in most of the financial media as per Financial Times or The Economist.

Why? Well, I didn't know until you asked, but google Is my friend: http://www.ask.com/question/does-mm-stand-for-million-or-thousand

[pjviitas]

You are assuming that the early adopters have any say in whether Bitcoin lives or dies.

Bitcoin simply cannot be controlled.  Anyone who tries will fail...period.

even the guy holding 10% of all the coins? you cant be serious. there are 5 people holding at least 20-30% of all coins. they could do it any time.

You can't destroy bitcoin with the price , end , point , end.
Even if they control 10% each time they pull a stunt like that they lose a few of their coins , things can't go like that forever.

Bitcoin is already at the point where I don't want to use it as a currency and am thinking of moving to litecoin.

In order for Bitcoin to be usable I need to be able to buy a bunch without breaking the bank and not be afraid to spend them.

If the price of Bitcoin is too high it does 2 things:
1. Forces me to buy small amounts of BTC for a price that I simply can't afford.  Buying "what I can afford" kills me in exchange fees.
2. Makes me feel like its too valuable to spend.

Contrary to what some people think, some people want to use BTC as it was intended...to buy and sell shit.

With that being said, everyone who engages in BTC needs to put their speculation hat on once in awile because of it's volatility.

the stupidity, it hurts.....

you don't have to buy whole bitcoins. if you have $500 to invest, buy ~0.7 bitcoins, if you have $5 to invest, buy ~0.007 bitcoins. if you have $0.05 to invest, buy a few satoshi.

Litecoin is not better than bitcoin in any way, and in my opinion litecoin is only used by daytraders and people who are too stupid to realize litecoin does not have any advantages over bitcoin and is just a cheap ripoff.

Bitcoin too valuable to spent? of course not, you can spent 0.005BTC bitcoin to buy a coffee, who cares? In a few year you may pay 0.000005BTC for a coffee, no big deal.

If you can afford to buy it in dollars, you can afford to buy it in bitcoins.

If you can't afford it in bitcoins, you can't afford it in dollar either. It doesn't matter if a bitcoin is worth $10,000,000 or $0.10

From Mt.GOX

You can do bank transfers to our bank in Japan in the following currencies:
 USD, GBP, EUR, CAD, CHF, SEK, DKK, NOK, AUD , NZD, HKD, SGD.  Any fee charged by your bank or an intermediate bank will be deducted.  Our bank charges a 1,500 Yen receiving fee. 

[zimmah]

Yes, those who get scared they will lose their millions and dump 10000+ or more at the market, starting an avalanche. I'm convinced that pump and dump has been going on for a long time, the question is, when will they overdo it to kill it all.

This has been debated since 2011 but yet it never happened.

Early adopters with tens of k's of BTC are strong hands. They already witnessed a crash that made BTC lose 96% of its value (2011 - $32 to $2) and they didn't blink. Those who wanted to cash out hundred of thousands of BTC (Like Sirius or Druid) already did it.

They are mostly nerds, geeks and visionaries - not the average joe who invested in BTC his life savings.

Plus, everybody with such holdings knows they cannot just have $100MM on Gox or Bitstamp and have them wired to their personal account. That just cannot happen and they know it.

And FYI: they are already "cashing out". Slowly and gradually. And even if they go crazy and want to cash out in a single big dump, they won't be able to. Maybe you don't know it, but somebody already dumped half a million coins on Gox in 2011, taking the price to $0.01. Do you know what happened? Gox halted trading and then rolled back that order.

why are you using MM instead of just M?

Just because it is the standard abbreviation i see in most of the financial media as per Financial Times or The Economist.

Why? Well, I didn't know until you asked, but google Is my friend: http://www.ask.com/question/does-mm-stand-for-million-or-thousand

MM is a wrong and confusing abbreviation.

use k (kilo) for 1000 and M (Mega) for million.

i have never seen MM before.

You are assuming that the early adopters have any say in whether Bitcoin lives or dies.

Bitcoin simply cannot be controlled.  Anyone who tries will fail...period.

even the guy holding 10% of all the coins? you cant be serious. there are 5 people holding at least 20-30% of all coins. they could do it any time.

You can't destroy bitcoin with the price , end , point , end.
Even if they control 10% each time they pull a stunt like that they lose a few of their coins , things can't go like that forever.

Bitcoin is already at the point where I don't want to use it as a currency and am thinking of moving to litecoin.

In order for Bitcoin to be usable I need to be able to buy a bunch without breaking the bank and not be afraid to spend them.

If the price of Bitcoin is too high it does 2 things:
1. Forces me to buy small amounts of BTC for a price that I simply can't afford.  Buying "what I can afford" kills me in exchange fees.
2. Makes me feel like its too valuable to spend.

Contrary to what some people think, some people want to use BTC as it was intended...to buy and sell shit.

With that being said, everyone who engages in BTC needs to put their speculation hat on once in awile because of it's volatility.

the stupidity, it hurts.....

you don't have to buy whole bitcoins. if you have $500 to invest, buy ~0.7 bitcoins, if you have $5 to invest, buy ~0.007 bitcoins. if you have $0.05 to invest, buy a few satoshi.

Litecoin is not better than bitcoin in any way, and in my opinion litecoin is only used by daytraders and people who are too stupid to realize litecoin does not have any advantages over bitcoin and is just a cheap ripoff.

Bitcoin too valuable to spent? of course not, you can spent 0.005BTC bitcoin to buy a coffee, who cares? In a few year you may pay 0.000005BTC for a coffee, no big deal.

If you can afford to buy it in dollars, you can afford to buy it in bitcoins.

If you can't afford it in bitcoins, you can't afford it in dollar either. It doesn't matter if a bitcoin is worth $10,000,000 or $0.10

From Mt.GOX

You can do bank transfers to our bank in Japan in the following currencies:
 USD, GBP, EUR, CAD, CHF, SEK, DKK, NOK, AUD , NZD, HKD, SGD.  Any fee charged by your bank or an intermediate bank will be deducted.  Our bank charges a 1,500 Yen receiving fee.  

yeah so? the fee is the same no matter what. it doesn't make bitcoin more expensive.