Major Project set to test bitcoins true strengths on Sovereign Tribal Nation

[bitpop]

Video or it didn't happen

[Barek]

Overall, the project is a great idea.

Regarding the mining. Consider that if you spend 25 BTC on mining equipment now, it is unclear if it will ever mine 25 BTC. You don't need expensive equipment to experience the mining process. A Block Erupter will give you the same understanding as a Neptune.

The beauty of Bitcoin is that it takes only a small investment to get started using it. Once people are comfortable using it, they will find ways to make use of it.

[jbreher]

Your project sounds interesting on its surface. But I'd need a lot more info before donating or investing.

Maybe I've missed it, but I don't recall you posting anything about discussions you've had with your tribal governing body. I would think that buy-in from that organization would be indispensable in getting BTC accepted as the national currency.

What can you tell us about such discussions?

[cr1776]

Overall, the project is a great idea.

Regarding the mining. Consider that if you spend 25 BTC on mining equipment now, it is unclear if it will ever mine 25 BTC. You don't need expensive equipment to experience the mining process. A Block Erupter will give you the same understanding as a Neptune.

The beauty of Bitcoin is that it takes only a small investment to get started using it. Once people are comfortable using it, they will find ways to make use of it.

This is a good point - a few pieces of inexpensive hardware will let everyone learn, while you are not worried about ROI.

[kimitsugroup]

Video interview talking about the project is here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGR3in8iOoc BTC Oyate Program Interview
Project Donations:  14YenT76QSnHwC3pPzXLwb9J6ajvD1ek4A


Merry Christmas everyone

Payu

[kellrobinson]

tribal Sovereignty can be used to safeguard bitcoin technology and foster it's future growth. look at start ups like Bitinstant, Bitfloor and other exchanges and services that had good services, good aspirations, and good people behind the wheel...but were stopped due to federal regulations and state interference because of misinformation and pressure from the Fiat based banking community. Had a start up like Bitfloor partnered with a Native american tribe, the tribe could have hosted their servers or even helped run a brick and mortar exchange under Tribal Unified Commercial Codes and insulated them from crippling federal regulations...kinda like how places like costa rica host Online Poker sites due to it's international Sovereignty...only in this case you can drive to South Dakota.

The problem isn't federal regulators.  It's State regulators.  All but two or three of the fifty States have money-transmission regulations, and then there's DC, plus maybe a territory or two.  It adds up to about fifty different regulatory agencies, not counting the feds, just to do business in the U.S.  

Coinapult moved to Panama.  Bitinstant had to close down.  Now, many millions of dollars later, bitinstant's just getting underway again.
I would rejoice if the Indian Nations could provide a way for American companies to stay on American soil (the American Continent, not the United States).  There might be a bitcoin startup out there which could find shelter under the umbrella of Lakota sovereignty.

[LAMarcellus]

Is there an item or something your ummm tribe/people produce that you can sell for Bitcoin?

If you decided to mint a silver coin, a sovereign money that is scarce, fungible, durable, divisible, and portable like BTC is,
Would the focus of your project be "mining for metals" or "learning to smelt" or "how to operate a "mint"?

Others here have said it already so I won't repeat it. But I will say that I will not give you a single satoshi so you can mine.
However, let me know what good or service your people sells and I will buy one with Bitcoin. After all that is the point of money.
Yeah we all wish we were the sole gold miner in the world and we could buy booze and pussy and lambos and all the stuff EVERYONE ELSE produces with the gold that we alone bring out of the ground. But that is a fools errand at this point. Forget that idea.
Or to prove how much of a fools errand it is,   go buy a pick axe and shovel and start looking for gold in the ground. It would be a comparable ROI.

How about producing an educational video and a lecture series on using/securing bitcoin? Have it translated into world languages and make it available thru your website. Someone needs to sell this product to the world, it might as well be your people. Do they have the time to do this? Or are your people busy producing another good or service?
How about building trust and reputation and storing private keys in a unique format (local language= an additional layer of encryption so to speak) on sovereign lands?

I gotta say it,
The fact that you want to raise funds for a mining operation at all suggests you heart is in the right place but you head is not.
The point is not to "make free money".
The point is to use a money that doesn't have the trappings and failings of the Federal Reserve Note as a medium of exchange for the goods and services we produce and trade mutually.

Get off the mining. Create a good or service and charge BTC. That's all I'm willing to donate at this time.

Best of luck to you with this project.

[kellrobinson]

When I was at university studying electrical engineering, the institution devoted a lot of resources to the labs we used.  Those labs were not there to make money, they were for education.
I'm not going to try to tell Payu what he can and cannot do.  A mining operation might be just what a bunch of idle kids on the rez need.  It will give them something interesting to do. 

Payu may have made a mistake when he proposed mining as a viable way to generate bitcoin for funding an exchange.  But that doesn't mean mining is a mistake.  Mining could have tremendous value for the young Indians on the reservation.  Can you imagine a more effective way to educate them about bitcoin?

The value of bitcoin for the Indians will play out over many years, perhaps generations.  It needs to start now.  A few thousand dollars  for a mining operation on Pine Ridge looks like a very good investment, to me.  For some eight-year-old Indian kid who loves computers, it could be the path to a very, very bright future.

[FCTaiChi]

Good point Kell.  I was thinking that there would be a lot to learn from donated items, though.  I imagine each student would benefit from getting a unit hashing on the network.  That would allow them to save donations for projects down the line.

[FCTaiChi]

Just found this..
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JnoW9Nt5xfo&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DJnoW9Nt5xfo

[kimitsugroup]

Ok well in response to the question of speaking with tribal governing bodies,  I have already had meetings with our He Sapa Oyate Council and they gave me the go ahead as long it will help the community.  I know several elders there that are excited about t he program and looking forward to it's development. As far as the Mining aspect we Do have some donated gear coming in which people are looking forward to seeing the basics of how things start out. Alot of people mentioned just buying BTC instead of mining...the problem with that is unemployment still hovers around 83.5% average  income is around $7,000 a year...people struggle to get the basics....where would they get the income to buy BTC for training purposes?  not trying to be a smart ass...just saying. Thats the main purpose for the Mining element...is to generate enough to A:) Show the Viability of a major tribal Mining cluster and B:) to generate enough BTC for young people to train on with exchange trading that they can learn effective trading strategies. The Commercial Businesses can accept it pretty easy so thats a no brainer but it's getting our people started in learning how the tech works and how to use it...without keeping it on a HD and later finding out you just dumped $6.7M in the landfill...LOL

-Payu-

[donkeykong9000]

Why not start off mining some alt coins? The barrier to entry is much, much lower. You could probably get a few people to donate some old cards or even 1 BTC would be enough for an ultra budget mining rig (maybe a couple of 7850s plus mobo/CPU/RAM/PSU). In the mean time, you could get some donations for using BTC or whatever alt coin in your community.

[ProfMac]

3.) Payment Processing and merchant acceptance

I spent most of today trying to envision a way to introduce bitcoin to the merchants and area on "the drag" near the University of Texas, Austin.  I think I had some good insights that i will try to develop a little more.

There was some spin-off idea from that thinking that may apply to Pine Ridge.  Am I correct that there is some regular payments made by the BIA to either the band, or to individuals?
If so, would they, the BIA, be willing to pay in bitcoin to individual addresses?

[cr1776]

Hi,
My own two cents are to use the strengths of the tribe and the independent nation status that make you unique.  
1. Mining is great if it is primarily for teaching and learning for those people who have a technical interest.  It is important to have a group who understand these aspects.
2. There is also the advantage of location where heat dissipation isn't as large a concern in winter.  :-)
3. The big competitive advantage though is the unique legal structure being an independent nation offers.  I think it is clear the US government recognizes it in respect to casinos, so should with other things too. So the question is how to leverage the competitive advantages that you have and that is by offering services to the world that might be difficult or impossible elsewhere. This probably includes online gambling (with IP blocks no doubt for some countries-which is somewhat meaningless for bitcoin obviously), exchanges (which since you are a nation provides different rules versus the rules in each US state), and banks to help the exchange.  (There may be things like a Silk Road replacement that are possible, but they would attract the wrong kind of attention in my opinion).

There are probably many other things that you can provide that give you a competitive advantage under your legal status and I think that could be of great benefit to the tribe and to bitcoin itself. The key is what is the advantage you have and it isn't in mining except as a learning tool because the mining ROI is difficult for everyone.

If you intend to set up an exchange etc once you have people up to speed you could no doubt get investors because there you have a great advantage over many others. Again given the nation status, getting investors could be much different than what is required outside the reservation.  Services like this will provide a good recurring income stream and a lot of valuable technical education to many people that is not just applicable to bitcoin.  

You'd want to go through whatever legal reviews are available (if any, if needed) before doing this, but this sentence encapsulates the advantage you have over many others, a much freer environment to do business. And that is worth a lot.

Ok well in response to the question of speaking with tribal governing bodies,  I have already had meetings with our He Sapa Oyate Council and they gave me the go ahead as long it will help the community.  I know several elders there that are excited about t he program and looking forward to it's development. As far as the Mining aspect we Do have some donated gear coming in which people are looking forward to seeing the basics of how things start out. Alot of people mentioned just buying BTC instead of mining...the problem with that is unemployment still hovers around 83.5% average  income is around $7,000 a year...people struggle to get the basics....where would they get the income to buy BTC for training purposes?  not trying to be a smart ass...just saying. Thats the main purpose for the Mining element...is to generate enough to A:) Show the Viability of a major tribal Mining cluster and B:) to generate enough BTC for young people to train on with exchange trading that they can learn effective trading strategies. The Commercial Businesses can accept it pretty easy so thats a no brainer but it's getting our people started in learning how the tech works and how to use it...without keeping it on a HD and later finding out you just dumped $6.7M in the landfill...LOL

-Payu-

[FCTaiChi]

Payu, despite the way the numbers may look mining is a risky venture that doesn't even pay off much of the time, much less give a steady enough income to fund the types of projects you mention.  I think that taking donations could fund everything you need in the short term, giving a huge advantage in the long term as the price goes up. 

This is my favorite bitcoin project idea, and I wish only success for you.  I'll help if I can.  It seems that the community will jump in more and more as you get started.  Put a good plan together, and keep taking videos.  If you can find someone to start training and interview them about what they've learned, how they feel about the future of this...  Do a lot of media promotions.  I'll tweet, or retweet from you.  (Have a Twitter account?).  And write an article on my page soon.

I'd also like to stop by in a couple months if that is possible.  I should be driving somewhat close to where you are.  I'd love to do an in depth interview.  Anything that shows people that you are really doing what you say, and are committed will help bring funding. 

[kimitsugroup]

Ok well time for a Update...the phase 1 mining aspect has been funded thanks to donations of some older Mining gear as well as a tech gift commitment from Visionman-btc.com. we're still planning to grow that part of the project but I wanted to thank everyone for their input and begin focusing on the phase 2 part of the project. Exchanges, and Services So Now I'll ask this...what types of services do you guys think would be good for the community..not just the tech savvy community...but the average person just getting into bitcoin....any thoughts?

-Payu-
14YenT76QSnHwC3pPzXLwb9J6ajvD1ek4A

[ProfMac]

Ok well time for a Update...the phase 1 mining aspect has been funded thanks to donations of some older Mining gear as well as a tech gift commitment from Visionman-btc.com. we're still planning to grow that part of the project but I wanted to thank everyone for their input and begin focusing on the phase 2 part of the project. Exchanges, and Services So Now I'll ask this...what types of services do you guys think would be good for the community..not just the tech savvy community...but the average person just getting into bitcoin....any thoughts?

-Payu-
14YenT76QSnHwC3pPzXLwb9J6ajvD1ek4A

There has to be a way to acquire bitcoins.
    Set up an exchange.  I assume that AML/KYC guidelines are a good thing to follow. 
    Start small, enrolled & descendants within 25 miles only.  Parallel with the rules used for things like license plates.
    Defer larger exchange operations until operations are smooth with the 'small and friendly' group.
    If there is a casino, see if they are willing to pay wages in bitcoin.
    If the RTC distributes cash, see if they are willing to payout as bitcoin.

There has to be a way to buy goods & services with bitcoins.
    The gas station or grocery store comes to mind.
    This should be something universal and visible.

There has to be a closed loop
    E.g.,
        1.  RTC distributes funds as bitcoin --->
        2.  Gas station accepts bitcoin --->
        3.  RTC buys bitcoin from gas station.

There has to be a good point of sale (POS) mechanism:
In close communities, 6-confirms are not important.  For example, I eat at a restaurant that is walking distance from the house.  When, inevitably, in the future, I forget my wallet, I will just walk home, get it, and return.  perhaps the next day.  In that environment, if I launch a payment I can walk out the door and everyone is happy.

If there is public internet access at a gas station or food store, that would be a good place to start with the existing bitcoin infrastructure.  Set people up with a blockchain.info wallet, restrict that wallet to that IP address, they can pay there, the clerk can view the payment transaction, everyone is happy, and bystanders can get get interested, educated, involved.

[codyave]

this part of the project also seeks to address the Sovereignty question and how tribal Sovereignty can be used to safeguard bitcoin technology and foster it's future growth. look at start ups like Bitinstant, Bitfloor and other exchanges and services that had good services, good aspirations, and good people behind the wheel...but were stopped due to federal regulations and state interference because of misinformation and pressure from the Fiat based banking community. Had a start up like Bitfloor partnered with a Native american tribe, the tribe could have hosted their servers or even helped run a brick and mortar exchange under Tribal Unified Commercial Codes and insulated them from crippling federal regulations...kinda like how places like costa rica host Online Poker sites due to it's international Sovereignty...only in this case you can drive to South Dakota.

Regarding a sovereign nation operating a bitcoin exchange in the U.S.:

1. Is a sovereign nation required to follow AML/KYC regulations?
2. Is a sovereign nation required to apply for an MSB license for each state?
3. Any other legal hurdles I haven't thought of?

I'm Lakota like Payu, and I want to see a bitcoin exchange operating on sovereign territory ASAP.

edit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7ukocsQo7Q#t=11m50s

can we crowdfund a plane ticket to get a tribal official to the max keiser show? (go to 11min50sec)

[ProfMac]

What is the relationship between this project and Mazacoin?

[minermick]

Good question profmac, I saw mazacoin in the news and remembered this project, after a bit of digging I believe it is the same project! Payu is quoted in an independent article about maza http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/mazacoin-native-american-tribe-adopts-bitcoin-derivative-as-national-currency-9165314.html

There is a chance that they have just used him as an expert to comment on another project but I think it's too similiar, either way they have done a fantastic job media wise and it will be great to follow the story.