Why didn't you sell?

[anu]

For those who had Bitcoins right before the Chinese Government's announcement this week and didn't sell them right after the announcement, why didn't you? I'm just curious.

For the same reason I

- bought Bitcoin at $2 in 10/2011 even though Proudhon and friends said Bitcoin is dead
- kept them in March 2012 when it fell back from 7.80 to 4.50
- kept them in April even though everyone said Bitcoin is dead
- kept them after DPR was arrested even though ppl on this forum said that this is the end of Bitcoin

Because Bitcoin is here to stay.

Who cares for a temporary 40% loss? Sometime next year Luxembourg or Slowenia or Japan or Argentina or some other state will go bust and citizen/subjects are in for a bail-in. At that point, we'll consider $1200 ridiculously cheap.

If you open the newspaper what you can read is: Sell gold. Buy stock. That is about the same quality advice as you give.

[anu]

For those who had Bitcoins right before the Chinese Government's announcement this week and didn't sell them right after the announcement, why didn't you? I'm just curious.

For the same reason I

- bought Bitcoin at $2 in 10/2011 even though Proudhon and friends said Bitcoin is dead
- kept them in March 2012 when it fell back from 7.80 to 4.50
- kept them in April even though everyone said Bitcoin is dead
- kept them after DPR was arrested even though ppl on this forum said that this is the end of Bitcoin

Because Bitcoin is here to stay.

Who cares for a temporary 40% loss? Sometime next year Luxembourg or Slowenia or Japan or Argentina or some other state will go bust and citizen/subjects are in for a bail-in. At that point, we'll consider $1200 ridiculously cheap.

If you open the newspaper what you can read is: Sell gold. Buy stock. That is about the same quality advice as you give.

Did you take at least some profits here and then since 2010?

I spend Bitcoin, I earn Bitcoin. Bitcoin is for spending and earning, not for conversion into dirty fiat.

EDIT: Bitcoin is also a store of value. Better than gold, because all you need to store that value is your brain. Whats wrong with storing wealth with Bitcoin as a frame of reference?

EDIT: I believe a Euro - the currency ppl use where I live - is a very abstract concept: it is not a IOU, it is a Who the fuck owes you nothing?. I do not consider any price in Euro for anything fair. Myself, I accept it only based on the greater fool theory. Giving that, your concept of "taking profit" is meaningless to me. I did buy a farm for Bitcoin, though, if you need to know.

[bitcon]

i didnt sell because i am buying. 

[proudhon]

Here are some of the main practical reasons I didn't sell:

(1) I don't trust the exchanges, or any 3rd party, with my bitcoins.
(2) There are possible (negative) tax consequences to moving in and out of bitcoin on exchanges
(3) There are additional, and as yet unresolved, tax consequences to withdrawing significant sums of bitcoin, especially to US bank accounts.
(4) There are yet potentially more (negative) tax consequences to using non-local exchanges as a US citizen.
(5) If, in the US, I'm merely subject to capital gains, my tax rate is significantly reduced by holding my bitcoins for more than a year.

I've engaged an attorney and a CPA to work the details out for me, because it's actually quite complicated.  US citizens goofing around on foreign exchanges with sums of money the IRS would care about are playing a dangerous game, IMO.

Finally, I'd simply prefer to keep my bitcoin wealth in bitcoin and spend bitcoin for the things I want/need.  I've been in the market for a new vehicle or two, and now that there are a couple of dealerships in the US that sell cars for bitcoin, it's preferable to take care of that transaction without liquidating on my end.  The tax consequences are simpler to work out (at least right now), and greatly reduced on my end by simply spending bitcoin.

[anu]

US citizens

This is bad - feeling sorry for you. Why not leaving while you can?

[humanitee]

Here are some of the main practical reasons I didn't sell:

(1) I don't trust the exchanges, or any 3rd party, with my bitcoins.
(2) There are possible (negative) tax consequences to moving in and out of bitcoin on exchanges
(3) There are additional, and as yet unresolved, tax consequences to withdrawing significant sums of bitcoin, especially to US bank accounts.
(4) There are yet potentially more (negative) tax consequences to using non-local exchanges as a US citizen.
(5) If, in the US, I'm merely subject to capital gains, my tax rate is significantly reduced by holding my bitcoins for more than a year.

I've engaged an attorney and a CPA to work the details out for me, because it's actually quite complicated.  US citizens goofing around on foreign exchanges with sums of money the IRS would care about are playing a dangerous game, IMO.

Finally, I'd simply prefer to keep my bitcoin wealth in bitcoin and spend bitcoin for the things I want/need.  I've been in the market for a new vehicle or two, and now that there are a couple of dealerships in the US that sell cars for bitcoin, it's preferable to take care of that transaction without liquidating on my end.  The tax consequences are simpler to work out (at least right now), and greatly reduced on my end by simply spending bitcoin.

I am very interested in all of this. Anyway you could make a thread when the attorney and CPA get back to you? I wasn't even aware of (4). Is that an additional percentage?

[proudhon]

US citizens

This is bad - feeling sorry for you. Why not leaving while you can?

Bitcoin or the US?

[bitcon]

US citizens

This is bad - feeling sorry for you. Why not leaving while you can?

because some of us arent allowed to leave or cant afford it.

[anu]

US citizens

This is bad - feeling sorry for you. Why not leaving while you can?

because some of us arent allowed to leave or cant afford it.

If you cant afford to leave a sinking ship you can afford to get dragged down with it.

[proudhon]

Here are some of the main practical reasons I didn't sell:

(1) I don't trust the exchanges, or any 3rd party, with my bitcoins.
(2) There are possible (negative) tax consequences to moving in and out of bitcoin on exchanges
(3) There are additional, and as yet unresolved, tax consequences to withdrawing significant sums of bitcoin, especially to US bank accounts.
(4) There are yet potentially more (negative) tax consequences to using non-local exchanges as a US citizen.
(5) If, in the US, I'm merely subject to capital gains, my tax rate is significantly reduced by holding my bitcoins for more than a year.

I've engaged an attorney and a CPA to work the details out for me, because it's actually quite complicated.  US citizens goofing around on foreign exchanges with sums of money the IRS would care about are playing a dangerous game, IMO.

Finally, I'd simply prefer to keep my bitcoin wealth in bitcoin and spend bitcoin for the things I want/need.  I've been in the market for a new vehicle or two, and now that there are a couple of dealerships in the US that sell cars for bitcoin, it's preferable to take care of that transaction without liquidating on my end.  The tax consequences are simpler to work out (at least right now), and greatly reduced on my end by simply spending bitcoin.

I am very interested in all of this. Anyway you could make a thread when the attorney and CPA get back to you? I wasn't even aware of (4). Is that an additional percentage?

I don't really know how it all works, which is why I've hired somebody to figure it out.  What I do know, so far, is capital gains is the ideal scenario, but there are still a lot of open questions.  If you're in the US, and you're trading on foreign exchanges and withdrawing USD (especially atypical/large sums), and you're not personally equipped to work out the tax consequences of what you're doing, then you're playing a dangerous game that could come back to bite you later.  

I'm not saying don't use foreign exchanges.  I'm simply saying that if you think you can simply buy bitcoins on exchanges, and magically come to possess the results of appreciation and use it without any accounting, you are ignorant in a way that could cause you some pretty serious problems in the future.

[proudhon]

US citizens

This is bad - feeling sorry for you. Why not leaving while you can?

because some of us arent allowed to leave or cant afford it.

If you cant afford to leave a sinking ship you can afford to get dragged down with it.

As much as I'd love to move to some place friendlier to financial innovation that has more sensible tax laws, it's just not as simple as 1,2,3 pick up and move.  I've got a family here and extended family throughout the US and locally.  Also, my entire social life is here, and my job is here.  So, as much as I dislike the way things are going here, I just isn't clear that the social cost is overcome by the dislike I have for how things are going here and whatever financial advantages I might gain somewhere else.

[zengryT]

(5) If, in the US, I'm merely subject to capital gains, my tax rate is significantly reduced by holding my bitcoins for more than a year.

I know bit offtopic but I mined coins instead of buying any, would waiting 1 year still qualify, or I had to buy the coins instead ?

[humanitee]

I don't really know how it all works, which is why I've hired somebody to figure it out.  What I do know, so far, is capital gains is the ideal scenario, but there are still a lot of open questions.  If you're in the US, and you're trading on foreign exchanges and withdrawing USD (especially atypical/large sums), and you're not personally equipped to work out the tax consequences of what you're doing, then you're playing a dangerous game that could come back to bite you later.  

I'm not saying don't use foreign exchanges.  I'm simply saying that if you think you can simply buy bitcoins on exchanges, and magically come to possess the results of appreciation and use it without any accounting, you are ignorant in a way that could cause you some pretty serious problems in the future.

This is very good advice. If Bitcoin hits mainstream I can almost guarantee all those traders in the US that are verified on foreign exchanges, that are not paying their taxes, will be getting the dreaded knock on the door. Please make a thread after you(they) figure it all out!

[proudhon]

(5) If, in the US, I'm merely subject to capital gains, my tax rate is significantly reduced by holding my bitcoins for more than a year.

I know bit offtopic but I mined coins instead of buying any, would waiting 1 year still qualify, or I had to buy the coins instead ?

Not sure.  Hopefully I know more in the next few weeks.  In addition to having somebody understand tax obligations, and ways to legally reduce them, another reason I've hired an attorney is to have somebody familiar with the relevant legal processes who can represent me in case my bank were to threaten or close my bank account as a result of bitcoin related transactions.  At a certain point, you should hire your own attorney/cpa/both, because you're only going to go so far getting information from the internet.

[Thralen]

Since the OP is feeling free to toss questions around, here's one for him.

You feel that your advice is such that you could be a bitcoin wealth adviser and yet, self-admitted, you owned no BTC when it topped over $1200. Why exactly is that? Didn't see it coming? You could've made lots of cash following your own advice there.

I have an idea, make yourself rich following your own advice (or go broke, which is more likely) then come back and try again.

Personally, I'll hold my bitcoins, spending a bit at each top I find attractive, meanwhile replacing what I spend by mining.

Thralen

[JayB]

Since the OP is feeling free to toss questions around, here's one for him.

You feel that your advice is such that you could be a bitcoin wealth adviser and yet, self-admitted, you owned no BTC when it topped over $1200. Why exactly is that? Didn't see it coming? You could've made lots of cash following your own advice there.

I have an idea, make yourself rich following your own advice (or go broke, which is more likely) then come back and try again.

Personally, I'll hold my bitcoins, spending a bit at each top I find attractive, meanwhile replacing what I spend by mining.

Thralen

I own no Bitcoins and in the part of the world where I live it's very hard to acquire them. The only way I could've acquired some is when it was economically feasible to mine it with ordinary laptops, but back then I wasn't aware of Bitcoin. Now with the current difficulty I don't think it can be done profitably (not with the equipment I have at least).

Having said that, I try to give my own POV regarding Bitcoin matters since I'm interested in the topic itself, and try to gather some counter-arguments to mine.

[Gleason]

M reason was this,

I wasn't awake when the news came out. It came out around 3:40AM my time. I woke up around 6 am and saw I had missed the big dip, and the market was already recovering. It recovered for for quite awhile after and made it back to the $1100, and litecoin back to the $40 range after everyone figured out China hadn't actually banned bitcoin like what was immediately thought when the news first hit the media.

I figured if it was reovering and going upwards after the big misleading news stories, there was a good chance it could hold steady/rise more.

And then it proceeded to tank while I was stuck at work.

[bitjoint]

Because I didn't wanna get GOXXXED!

Thisssssss 

[cAPSLOCK]

Having said that, I try to give my own POV regarding Bitcoin matters since I'm interested in the topic itself, and try to gather some counter-arguments to mine.

Your argument is suggesting via hindsight people should have tried to catch a falling knife.

It really is it's own counter argument. :-)

[oyeTorry]

For those who had Bitcoins right before the Chinese Government's announcement this week and didn't sell them right after the announcement, why didn't you? I'm just curious.

I dont sell because having Bitcoins or USD at exchange seems risky to me. I will wait for safer options