Trust ratings

[Astargath]

Has anyone seen the trust rating of mprep recently? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=51173

He is a forum global moderator with a negative rating from someone who is on DT. It also seems like he left some retaliatory feedback to bayareacoins https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=137773

Now I'm not saying he deserves the negative rating but the system seems to be failing. This is not even the only case, look at lauda https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=101872
2 Negative ratings from 2 different people and yet he is still on DT. They also left negative feedbacks to each other, https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=181801  I don't know who left the first negative rating first but still, why do they all do this?


What about OgNasty, it seems to me that he leaves a ton of retaliatory negative feedback too. Is it really necessary to give this guy: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=98986  5 Negative ratings?

I know you are going to say that trust is not moderated and bla bla but none of these users seem trustworthy to me, they all act like kids sometimes throwing negative ratings at each other.

[mdayonliner]

I guess you are seeing the rating depending on your personal trust setting. It's different for sure for others. i.e I see green for BayAreaCoins, OgNasty, TMAN.
mprep is the same for me...


Click here if unable to see image

[actmyname]

I guess you are seeing the rating depending on your personal trust setting. It's different for sure for others. i.e I see green for BayAreaCoins, OgNasty, TMAN.
mprep is the same for me...

Astargath is talking about DefaultTrust settings, which means that this is applicable in a grand scheme.

Retaliatory feedback is inevitable. However. the part that works is when others jump in to give their opinion about certain sent feedback. If other DT members disagreed with BAC's rating, they could easily send mprep positive feedback to counter the rating.

In the second case about Lauda, there must be a clear distinction made between trust feedback and trust lists. Lauda receiving negative trust from DT members does not mean that they will be excluded from DT.

Rather, for an exclusion to happen, the number of DT1 members that have ~Lauda (an exclusion) in their trust list must exceed the number that have Lauda (an inclusion) in their trust list.

In the third case, if it is justified there is often need to leave multiple feedback. To delete earlier feedback and "edit it in" to a later feedback seems unconstructive.

[Astargath]

I guess you are seeing the rating depending on your personal trust setting. It's different for sure for others. i.e I see green for BayAreaCoins, OgNasty, TMAN.
mprep is the same for me...

Astargath is talking about DefaultTrust settings, which means that this is applicable in a grand scheme.

Retaliatory feedback is inevitable. However. the part that works is when others jump in to give their opinion about certain sent feedback. If other DT members disagreed with BAC's rating, they could easily send mprep positive feedback to counter the rating.

In the second case about Lauda, there must be a clear distinction made between trust feedback and trust lists. Lauda receiving negative trust from DT members does not mean that they will be excluded from DT.

Rather, for an exclusion to happen, the number of DT1 members that have ~Lauda (an exclusion) in their trust list must exceed the number that have Lauda (an inclusion) in their trust list.

In the third case, if it is justified there is often need to leave multiple feedback. To delete earlier feedback and "edit it in" to a later feedback seems unconstructive.

I know getting a negative rating does not mean you get excluded from DT, im not new here. It just seems counterproductive to have DT members with negative ratings from other DT members. If they can't trust each other why should we?

It seems that on mprep case almost no one really wanted to say anything because of fear.

[seoincorporation]

Seems like personal issues between the users instead of serious accusations of scamming activities, which supposedly are the reasons for giving red trust to anybody.
I think this is normal to have "enemies" when you are a moderator or a "heavy user". Take a look at the meta section, last week we had a "war" between a cryptopussie and The Pharmacist...

Yet, you have a point: discussion of such a kind between DT members seems unserious, but, even so, from my point of view, those are just personal issues, and, as long as don't affect the forum, that's normal, people don't have to engage but to do well their job.

[actmyname]

I know getting a negative rating does not mean you get excluded from DT, im not new here. It just seems counterproductive to have DT members with negative ratings from other DT members. If they can't trust each other why should we?

Decentralization. If you have the DT members agree with one another all the time or have some organized community staying in power, that leads to some heavy corruption. Some people may say that the current system still creates corruption, but there are plenty of objective DT members in the system.

It seems that on mprep case almost no one really wanted to say anything because of fear.

The problem is that without a generalized consensus, most people would be afraid to sent ratings. After all, if someone cared about trust, they would strive to keep it as-is and avoid these kinds of confrontations.

[iillaa]

@mdayonliner   i see mprep negative as well   and  i think most newbie will see him like that  because we dont  change our trust setting and just leave it by default  .

i had some chat with him when i first come to forum   i asked some questions and he helped  me  .

i dont  know people here and am sure most members here are like me  so  its less likely to change our  default trust   settings .

maybe if theymos  change the default trust network for newbies  from time to time it will be  better  ( idk if he is doing that already ) .

[actmyname]

maybe if theymos  change the default trust network for newbies  from time to time it will be  better  ( idk if he is doing that already ) .

IIRC there was some system that he was testing to randomly add users into one's DT network. If someone has a link they can bring it up but it basically made users pick and choose from a selection of users.

[MintCondition]

If you are not NEW here then why you are posting and asking like newbie here? This retaliatory feedback means both DT has their own reason for giving it and this is normal since we have different perspective. Later on this issue will be resolved so don't bother anymore on their personal problem and focus on your own life. Read carefully the description of the feedback. You can start there on judging if they are really Trusted or not.

[digaran]

If you are not NEW here then why you are posting and asking like newbie here? This retaliatory feedback means both DT has their own reason for giving it and this is normal since we have different perspective. Later on this issue will be resolved so don't bother anymore on their personal problem and focus on your own life. Read carefully the description of the feedback. You can start there on judging if they are really Trusted or not.

Read my red tag by marlboroza. would you say I deserved it? ignore my name and read the reference. if you think that I don't deserve it after I asked you to review my case, and if you keep quite and say nothing. nobody should ever trust your judgment. if you lie, people would see and nobody would ever trust you.

If you see some powerful people are doing something wrong and if you say nothing, your words would mean nothing for anybody after that.

[Vod]

I know getting a negative rating does not mean you get excluded from DT, im not new here. It just seems counterproductive to have DT members with negative ratings from other DT members. If they can't trust each other why should we?

I'm don't trust all DT members... being in DT1 just means Theymos trusts you - it doesn't mean you are a trustworthy and moral person...

[BTCeminjas]

I know getting a negative rating does not mean you get excluded from DT, im not new here. It just seems counterproductive to have DT members with negative ratings from other DT members. If they can't trust each other why should we?

I'm don't trust all DT members... being in DT1 just means Theymos trusts you - it doesn't mean you are a trustworthy and moral person...

Exactly Vod, not all DT members are trustworthy and have good moral characteristics,

Some of them having shady activities or something abusing and using their powers but I'm not to pointing to anyone.

@mdayonliner   i see mprep negative as well   and  i think most newbie will see him like that  because we dont  change our trust setting and just leave it by default  .

Same as here I also saw mprep negative feedback, but why we need to change manually our trust settings default? Is it not auto change?

[Astargath]

I know getting a negative rating does not mean you get excluded from DT, im not new here. It just seems counterproductive to have DT members with negative ratings from other DT members. If they can't trust each other why should we?

I'm don't trust all DT members... being in DT1 just means Theymos trusts you - it doesn't mean you are a trustworthy and moral person...

Yes and I personally always tell people to look at the ratings and references and do their research if they are going to engage in any sort of trade. I'm just pointing out some of the ridiculousness of the system like a global moderator with negative trust or DT members throwing negatives to each other.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

I have a lot of respect for mprep based on his posts and the job he does, but I think he was in the wrong with that auction and with the negative feedback he left for BAC.  The way I see it is that we all make mistakes if we get emotional about something, and I think that's what he did with the feedback he left.  Hopefully he learns from that auction debacle.  Also, I see green trust when I look at his trust page--but I have a very customized trust list.  BAC is also green.

There certainly is a lot of infighting here, but I'm pretty sure that's unavoidable, given the diversity of people we have here.  Most DT members aren't corrupt, and if they do get caught in a blatant scam they'll get removed.  I've seen that happen with a few former DT members, like Quickseller, Master-P, and most recently TheButterZone (though he requested he himself be removed).  TBZ isn't a scammer, but he has a slight problem with leaving negs--and positives--too readily.  I know there's a lot of others, but I can't remember any more off the top of my head.

I do wish there wasn't so much bickering among DT members and that there wasn't this drama between OGNasty and Lauda that's split not only DT but a lot of members into factions, but that's how it is.  I try to stay out of all of that, but OGNasty excluded me from his trust list, which got me booted off DT the first time.  Ouch.  Nevertheless, my fight has always been with the account sellers, farmers, and shitposters--not DT members.  I'd like to keep it that way.

[cabalism13]

After reviewing mprep's trust ratings, it seems that some of his neg trust was due to some auctions that he participated in the past.



As for me, I'm seeing his trust rating like this:



He's also a fellow human being, getting tagged by other people isn't that impossible, he also might have mistaken from what he did before that's why he get that, even if he was already a mod.

[ibminer]

maybe if theymos  change the default trust network for newbies  from time to time it will be  better  ( idk if he is doing that already ) .

IIRC there was some system that he was testing to randomly add users into one's DT network. If someone has a link they can bring it up but it basically made users pick and choose from a selection of users.

recent comments:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2945878.msg30263135#msg30263135
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2945878.msg30265724#msg30265724

original explanation:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=914641.0

My fear with this type of semi-randomized system is that it would be abused on a larger scale and would just create smaller groups of centralized (farmed) trusted accounts. I feel like it increases the chances for newbies getting scammed and further cradles or helps hide scammers... there probably isn't ever going to be a perfect solution for decentralizing something like this trust system though.

It's not perfect, but I like the trust system how it is at the moment, even though I do feel like there is a level of corruption that may be attainable and there are not enough current DT members expressing their opinions without fear, but I guess that's their choice.

In the end, scammers have plenty of financial incentive to scam here (not to mention rules are setup somewhat in their favor), so they have plenty of stamina and motivation to keep going. Outside of those who have their own special interests, DT members don't really have any incentive to help others/newbies or to leave any feedback, and they generally have risks of putting their own neck (or their own reputation) on the line when they leave feedback to others, since DT-level feedback can be excessively over-analyzed, debated, etc. So it's not really a good balance in that sense..

[digaran]

I have a lot of respect for mprep based on his posts and the job he does, but I think he was in the wrong with that auction and with the negative feedback he left for BAC.  The way I see it is that we all make mistakes if we get emotional about something, and I think that's what he did with the feedback he left.  Hopefully he learns from that auction debacle.  Also, I see green trust when I look at his trust page--but I have a very customized trust list.  BAC is also green.

There certainly is a lot of infighting here, but I'm pretty sure that's unavoidable, given the diversity of people we have here.  Most DT members aren't corrupt, and if they do get caught in a blatant scam they'll get removed.  I've seen that happen with a few former DT members, like Quickseller, Master-P, and most recently TheButterZone (though he requested he himself be removed).  TBZ isn't a scammer, but he has a slight problem with leaving negs--and positives--too readily.  I know there's a lot of others, but I can't remember any more off the top of my head.

I do wish there wasn't so much bickering among DT members and that there wasn't this drama between OGNasty and Lauda that's split not only DT but a lot of members into factions, but that's how it is.  I try to stay out of all of that, but OGNasty excluded me from his trust list, which got me booted off DT the first time.  Ouch.  Nevertheless, my fight has always been with the account sellers, farmers, and shitposters--not DT members.  I'd like to keep it that way.

What do you get for being a DT2 member? is there any benefit for you? if there is no benefit for you then staying in or out shouldn't cause any trouble for you. if you are afraid of losing something by staying out of it, then you are not an honourable man and you would never achieve anything in your life, you'd Stay the same person with the same life. waking up every day to do what you are doing just for the money. nobody would come to your help when you need it if you don't help others when they need it.

Do you see mprep is doing something wrong? ignore his position and your own, judge him like you judge everybody else. this is another test like
All other tests. I'm asking you now. if nobody has ever asked you for your opinion, this is it, judge or stay quite. whatever you do there will be consequences. your reputation or your DT2 status? there is only one good outcome.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

Do you see mprep is doing something wrong? ignore his position and your own, judge him like you judge everybody else. this is another test like

No, you are telling me to not weigh any other factors into people's actions, and I'm not about to do that.  THAT would be unfair.  Plus you're ignoring the importance of politics and forum culture here, which always plays a role.  Hate to say it, but it's true.  That's real life, buddy.

I'm not making money by being on DT.  If you can point me to where that's true, I'll listen.  The importance is in the weight of my feedback when I tag someone--that's basically it.  When I got kicked off DT the first time, it was annoying but I quickly got over it.  If I get kicked off again, I won't even be annoyed.  I will just hope that another DT member look through my sent feedbacks and re-tag those people.

Stop trolling.  You've got to be better than this underneath all your psychosis.  You think you've been tagged inappropriately?  Take a look at my feedback and tell me how many times I've been tagged inappropriately.  I'd put the number in the low hundreds, and some of these idiots made some very specific accusations, too, like I harm animals or have scammed them for 100BTC.  There's no references, and it's all bullshit of course.  But I don't expect anyone to come running to my defense to right the wrongs that have been done.  Fucking be a man.

[audaciousbeing]

I know getting a negative rating does not mean you get excluded from DT, im not new here. It just seems counterproductive to have DT members with negative ratings from other DT members. If they can't trust each other why should we?

It seems that on mprep case almost no one really wanted to say anything because of fear.

I don't understand what this is about, people are free to express opinions on other people as they deem it fit based on the situations and circumstances at hand. DT members are not saint neither are they angels, they are individuals with different orientations, from different cultures as well as different levels of maturity. So you don't expect them to always agree on a particular issue.

I have seen threads were DT members have been accused of several things, some have been called alts of each others, others have been labelled clique to frustrate lower rank members just because they made it a responsibility to do what is right and you know the reason for this? Because they only agree on one position.. Now when they have different opinions about situations, complain is still there.

In short what is the essence of decentralisation or freedom if people who matter cannot disagree on issues then agree afterwards?

[allahabadi]

-snip-
I know getting a negative rating does not mean you get excluded from DT, im not new here. It just seems counterproductive to have DT members with negative ratings from other DT members. If they can't trust each other why should we?

It seems that on mprep case almost no one really wanted to say anything because of fear.

Why should you trust anyone?

The DT1 simply means people who are trusted by theymos (like TF was); DT2 means people who are trusted by those on DT1. Nothing more, nothing less.

I don't trust anyone on the forum and neither should anyone; unless and until you are satisfied or have safeguards in place.