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Author Topic: Problem with BOURSE forced buyback on Cryptostocks  (Read 8914 times)
supermono
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December 08, 2013, 04:40:13 AM
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On November 2, the issuer started selling BitcoinBourse PT system shares on Cryptostocks for 0.015 ( https://cryptostocks.com/securities/59 ). I bought 1 share on November 3 as part of his release on Cryptostocks.

On December 7, he suddenly posted the announcement "Dear shareholders, we decide to stop using 3th partie site to sell shares. We buy back now all issued shares.Thank you for all. System shares can be still buyed on Bitcoin Bourse directly." and did a forced buyback at a price of 0.005, resulting in a loss of 0.01 BTC/share (fortunately, just 1 share in my case) and presumably a profit to the issuer of 0.01 BTC/share.

If he is going to do a buyback, shouldn't he buy back the shares at the price that he originally issued them at so that he doesn't screw investors?

Have other people been affected by this, or just me? Does anyone know if this was a simple mistake, or if this was done deliberately?

Needless to say, I will not consider investing again in Bitcoin Bourse until this is resolved.

P.S. There are two existing threads regarding BitcoinBourse started by the issuer ( https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=346503.0 by forum account dotcoin and https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=270625.0 by forum account forensick) but it appears that the issuer locked both of these threads, which is why I started this as a new thread.

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December 08, 2013, 07:41:33 AM
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On November 2, the issuer started selling BitcoinBourse PT system shares on Cryptostocks for 0.015 ( https://cryptostocks.com/securities/59 ). I bought 1 share on November 3 as part of his release on Cryptostocks.

On December 7, he suddenly posted the announcement "Dear shareholders, we decide to stop using 3th partie site to sell shares. We buy back now all issued shares.Thank you for all. System shares can be still buyed on Bitcoin Bourse directly." and did a forced buyback at a price of 0.005, resulting in a loss of 0.01 BTC/share (fortunately, just 1 share in my case) and presumably a profit to the issuer of 0.01 BTC/share.

If he is going to do a buyback, shouldn't he buy back the shares at the price that he originally issued them at so that he doesn't screw investors?

Have other people been affected by this, or just me? Does anyone know if this was a simple mistake, or if this was done deliberately?

Needless to say, I will not consider investing again in Bitcoin Bourse until this is resolved.

P.S. There are two existing threads regarding BitcoinBourse started by the issuer ( https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=346503.0 by forum account dotcoin and https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=270625.0 by forum account forensick) but it appears that the issuer locked both of these threads, which is why I started this as a new thread.



He isn't stupid. He just made pure profit for no work. This is all to common in the world of Bitcoin.

Does CryptoStocks have his details on file? You should file a claim against CryptoStocks to either releases his DOX so a manhunt can begin or you need to serve CryptoStocks a lawsuit immediately for facilitating and profiting from a scammer (They make a lot of profit from fees)

You only had 1 share so it's not in your best interest to follow any of this through, infact scammers frequently love lots of little shareholders because they rarely unite. See the Labcoin IPO. They restricted their IPO income to 7,000 Bitcoin and the IPO was massively over subscribed, but the way they set it up was that lots of small timers had a chance to get shares. In the end this was favourable as no single shareholder owned too much of the company to make legal recourse difficult and costly.

The key is not to let the scammers walk.

This guy that stole 0.01 from you, I hope he stole a lot from some larger shareholders so that they track him down and sue him. Disgusting pigs like BitcoinBourse issuer need to be taken down at all costs.
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December 08, 2013, 02:17:49 PM
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...
P.S. There are two existing threads regarding BitcoinBourse started by the issuer ( https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=346503.0 by forum account dotcoin and https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=270625.0 by forum account forensick) but it appears that the issuer locked both of these threads, which is why I started this as a new thread.

Consider giving both accounts negative trust ratings & opening a thread in the scam accusations subforum.  Both are pretty useless, but also require almost no effort on your part.
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December 08, 2013, 04:01:54 PM
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hey guys, i am out of the project of bitcoinbourse for over 5 weeks now. I owned some shares of Cryptostocks as well, 35 shares, don´t have any idea why they have been bought back for this rate... so, lost over 0.35 BTC as well. I wanted also to chance my picture here, but not working.  You can contact direct owner here: Bitcoin SARL <contact@bitcoinsarl.fr>
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December 08, 2013, 07:25:52 PM
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Why you can't invest with Cryptostocks. It wasn't empty conjecture, you know.

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December 09, 2013, 12:45:03 AM
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Why you can't invest with Cryptostocks. It wasn't empty conjecture, you know.

For god's sake, will you quit linking to your own site already? Get your backlinking done elsewhere.
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December 10, 2013, 05:08:58 PM
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For god's sake, will you quit linking to your own site already? Get your backlinking done elsewhere.

It's not my site sparky. It's where the relevant information is. You want some variety, make it happen.

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December 11, 2013, 09:34:10 PM
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For god's sake, will you quit linking to your own site already? Get your backlinking done elsewhere.

It's not my site sparky. It's where the relevant information is. You want some variety, make it happen.

Yes, it is your site. You're really not fooling anyone pretending that MPOE-PR and Popescu are different people.
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December 16, 2013, 06:08:19 AM
 #9

Thanks for the responses guys, and thank you Hannah for the link to the Cryptostocks report.

I am having an issue with my email right now, but as soon as I get it fixed, as the next step, I will try emailing the owner at the address provided by forensick. With luck, maybe it was an honest mistake and the owner will be able to get it fixed (I know there was also an error  in November with the GDICE buyback which was erroneously done at a price of 0.0 BTC, but the owner was on top of that one and got Cryptostocks to fix it within a couple of days).

If the owner does not correct the issue after I email him, then the next step will be to implement some of the other suggestions such as trust ratings, scam accusations thread, contacting Cryptostocks, etc. Not many shares of this asset were sold, so it looks like the total profit made by the issuer from this was relatively low (less than 0.75 BTC total, which I assume is less than the fee he paid to list the asset on Cryptostocks). So hopefully the owner will realize that it's not worth the damage to his and his business' reputation just to make a little bit of profit off of this.

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December 16, 2013, 03:27:23 PM
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Yes, it is your site. You're really not fooling anyone pretending that MPOE-PR and Popescu are different people.

It's quite established. People have met me. Your fantasies about it being someone else's fault that you're being idiotic are just that, fantasies. The sooner you come to terms with this, the sooner you can escape the idiot camp.

Thanks for the responses guys, and thank you Hannah for the link to the Cryptostocks report.

You're quite welcome. I hope something in here works out for you.

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December 16, 2013, 03:32:03 PM
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Yes, it is your site. You're really not fooling anyone pretending that MPOE-PR and Popescu are different people.

It's quite established. People have met me. Your fantasies about it being someone else's fault that you're being idiotic are just that, fantasies. The sooner you come to terms with this, the sooner you can escape the idiot camp.

Oh, yeah? Well it's pretty surprising that Popescu never shows his face around here and you simply do all the hocking of his site around here. Go ahead and post a picture of you and him together, then. A shitty photoshop of you two on the camel together would be great.
pascal257
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December 16, 2013, 05:35:36 PM
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Yes, it is your site. You're really not fooling anyone pretending that MPOE-PR and Popescu are different people.

It's quite established. People have met me. Your fantasies about it being someone else's fault that you're being idiotic are just that, fantasies. The sooner you come to terms with this, the sooner you can escape the idiot camp.

Oh, yeah? Well it's pretty surprising that Popescu never shows his face around here and you simply do all the hocking of his site around here. Go ahead and post a picture of you and him together, then. A shitty photoshop of you two on the camel together would be great.
Our "esteemed leader" does not go down to talk to the plebs. But +1 for that photoshop if someone has the skills.
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December 16, 2013, 10:26:22 PM
 #13

Oh, yeah?

Yes. It is established.
Now shut up and listen to good advice being given to you, free of charge.

I'm interested in seeing how this Bitcoin Bourse thing will unfold, the guy seems like an absolute idiot with no clue whatsoever.

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December 17, 2013, 02:40:10 AM
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Oh, yeah?

Yes. It is established.
Now shut up and listen to good advice being given to you, free of charge.

I'm interested in seeing how this Bitcoin Bourse thing will unfold, the guy seems like an absolute idiot with no clue whatsoever.

Please. Anything to do with MP is a joke. Does anyone her really take MPEX seriously?
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December 17, 2013, 03:20:58 AM
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Since "anyone here" lost 90% of their investments I'm not sure they should be taken seriously.

I didn't invest in Bourse, so I wouldn't know about that. Just happened to be reading the thread and got annoyed with MP for the Nth time. Might as well ignore him again, he doesn't even say anything of worth these days.
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January 25, 2014, 02:09:07 PM
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Shame how this devolved into MP trolling, it only suits the BitcoinBourse perpetrator. This BOURSE cryptostocks stuff is only most recent of the string of fail (but more likely, outright scam) that this is. Just a short review:

September 2013: IPO launched by dotcoin and forensick, with early bird share prices of 0.1 BTC, total 30000 shares. I have talked personally to the cofounder (forensick), what made me gain some trust and I did invest in it.
October 2013: BitcoinBourse launched, IPO is still running (onsite) with share prices of 0.15BTC. Shares trading is not possible, will be only after all shares sell. Still over 20k shares unsold.
November 2013: The cofounder (forensick) left the company and told me he has not seen any bitcoins from the IPO and moreover was left with some outstanding debt by Markus Weiler (dotcoin).
December 2013:Announced planned relaunch by Christmas, with finally enabled trading of shares. Relaunch was later postponed. Still over 18k shares unsold to this day. Shareholders can't do anything and Markus explicitly wrote  to me shareholders aren't to receive any information how the IPO proceeds were used.

Whole time, the trade (and thus, dividends) on the exchange has been meager or non-existant. It has many reasons, from the weird SSL certificate, the fact that ID verification is needed, supply/demand on the order book was not seeded so it was often empty, to nonexistent or inappropriate advertising.  I tried to write Markus about this, he was convinced that Adwords campaign is the most he can do. He refused to understand that people coming to some random site via adwords click will not want to do ID verification. That won't stop him from claiming in the newsletters he has 500 or however much users. Also, instead of devoting the time to the project, he launched another side project, CryptoBourse, and started and stopped selling shares of both bourses on Cryptostocks.

If anyone considers to take steps against BitcoinSARL and its "CEO" Markus Weiler, I can provide assistance. I have got some background information that issuance of such unregistered "shares" may be frowned upon by French regulator. But most likely I'll never see my bitcoins again.

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January 25, 2014, 03:33:40 PM
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I have got some background information that issuance of such unregistered "shares" may be frowned upon by French regulator.

This happens to be exactly the wrong way to go about it. Everything bitcoin, including financials, is and will remain unregistered with the fiat world, and unregulated by the fiat world; if it has to come to a war it will, and the fiat world will be burned to a cinder.

Given this, it's kind of immoral to go "we'll do our own stuff except if we blow up we expect you to spend time and resources to fix it for us". Things don't work that way in any sane system.

The old GPG contracts article explains it in detail: you've got to do due diligence before you act, rather than after. You knew cryptostocks wasn't a venue. By simple fact that this shit listed there you'd know it's a scam. If it weren't it'd have listed on MPEx. Who are the people involved? Nobody? That means it's a scam. Whether they have two arms just like anyone else or not, whether they're nice wives or fathers or transsexuals, whether they mean to or not. What they do will be a scam.

That's what happens specifically because they have no control over the results of their actions, and that's because they have neither the intelligence to understand what they should be doing nor the experience of having done what they were supposed to do.

Some kid declaring "math is stupid" has not therefore resolved the problem of his having to learn math, just like some kid proclaiming MPOE-PR is evil has not therefore resolved the problem of having to do exactly (and well) everything I say he has to do.

It's just how the world works, and there are no exceptions.

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January 27, 2014, 08:20:12 AM
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Shame how this devolved into MP trolling, it only suits the BitcoinBourse perpetrator. This BOURSE cryptostocks stuff is only most recent of the string of fail (but more likely, outright scam) that this is. Just a short review:

September 2013: IPO launched by dotcoin and forensick, with early bird share prices of 0.1 BTC, total 30000 shares. I have talked personally to the cofounder (forensick), what made me gain some trust and I did invest in it.
October 2013: BitcoinBourse launched, IPO is still running (onsite) with share prices of 0.15BTC. Shares trading is not possible, will be only after all shares sell. Still over 20k shares unsold.
November 2013: The cofounder (forensick) left the company and told me he has not seen any bitcoins from the IPO and moreover was left with some outstanding debt by Markus Weiler (dotcoin).
December 2013:Announced planned relaunch by Christmas, with finally enabled trading of shares. Relaunch was later postponed. Still over 18k shares unsold to this day. Shareholders can't do anything and Markus explicitly wrote  to me shareholders aren't to receive any information how the IPO proceeds were used.

Whole time, the trade (and thus, dividends) on the exchange has been meager or non-existant. It has many reasons, from the weird SSL certificate, the fact that ID verification is needed, supply/demand on the order book was not seeded so it was often empty, to nonexistent or inappropriate advertising.  I tried to write Markus about this, he was convinced that Adwords campaign is the most he can do. He refused to understand that people coming to some random site via adwords click will not want to do ID verification. That won't stop him from claiming in the newsletters he has 500 or however much users. Also, instead of devoting the time to the project, he launched another side project, CryptoBourse, and started and stopped selling shares of both bourses on Cryptostocks.

If anyone considers to take steps against BitcoinSARL and its "CEO" Markus Weiler, I can provide assistance. I have got some background information that issuance of such unregistered "shares" may be frowned upon by French regulator. But most likely I'll never see my bitcoins again.

Markus stopped all communication with me, didnt pay back his debt to me, so I will pass unpaid invoice to my lawyer to make european payment order and get this company down.
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June 08, 2014, 10:20:25 PM
 #19

Quick Bump here, just to show that BitcoinBourse is a SCAM operation :S
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