Ripple: The Best Way To Legitimize Bitcoin

[nahtnam]

That would be an online wallet. As I said before, Ripple isnt fully open source.

You've said it before, and you're wrong. Ripple is now fully open source.

So you are saying that in a few minutes, I can clone Ripple (XRP + Site) EXACTLY how it is?

[mmeijeri]

So you are saying that in a few minutes, I can clone Ripple (XRP + Site) EXACTLY how it is?

I haven't done it myself, but I understand it's a couple of hours work if you've never done it before. Probably minutes to an hour if you've done it before, and less if you have it scripted, but I don't think many people do. Note that I'm not saying that Ripple Labs doesn't have closed source code, but that's just like Bitstamp or Mt Gox or blockchain.info having closed source too. The essentials like client and server and lots of supporting stuff as well are open source.

[nahtnam]

So you are saying that in a few minutes, I can clone Ripple (XRP + Site) EXACTLY how it is?

I haven't done it myself, but I understand it's a couple of hours work if you've never done it before. Probably minutes to an hour if you've done it before, and less if you have it scripted, but I don't thing many people do. Note that I'm not saying that Ripple Labs doesn't have closed source code, but that's just like Bitstamp or Mt Gox or blockchain.info having closed source too. The essentials like client and server and lots of supporting stuff as well are open source.

Yes, but they still are running things that we dont know of, just like Twitter.

EDIT: Of course this is essential to the business because if they release the FULL source code and steps to reproduce it, people could start their own site and probably overtake Ripple. Unlike this bitcoin is fully open.

[Sukrim]

Whats funny is that Ripple inst (fully) open source. They are like twitter, claiming to be open source because a tiny part of their script is online.

Your right, Ripple is affraid their brand is not recognized enough to allow publish full open source, and they are right

Sure are. I was just going to suggest that since Ripple is open source, we should create a Ripple with BTC (or NMC) as the native currency, and thus resolve the issue that the initial creators controlled 100% of the XRP.

Still, if the underlying idea isn't patented, isn't this something we could do?

It's of course something you could do, however with native BTC underneath, you'd have quite long confirmation times (0 conf transactions likely will not cut it...).

Check out their Open Source release statement, the nearly only thing that they request is that you don't call your fork Ripple or use their logos, to avoid confusion - the code itself is MIT licensed, just like bitcoin-qt.

Their code is at github, have fun hacking away!

Also now that its "open source" are you able to mine it?

Being Open Source has nothing to do with mining, but if you want to use your computer to crunch numbers and get XRP, you can do that.

Go to www.ComputingForGood.org and get started. One big difference is that when you trade computation for XRP, you aren't just generating heat like with Bitcoin mining. Instead, you are crunching results for scientific research (mostly AIDS and research).

I know that open source has nothing to do wit mining, I just forgot a ".". Do they have a GUI or is it just a pool sort of thing?

Computingforgood piggybacks on the World Community Grid, a bunch of projects that use BOINC to do distributed computing and verification of the results generated. BOINC itself does have GUIs for various operating systems and can also run from the command line.

At this point I don't know enough about Ripple to comment, except to say that so far it seems to be much harder to get started with Ripple than it was to get started with Bitcoin.

Well, you can use the JavaScript client on Ripple.com, I consider that to be easier to get started than downloading a couple GB of blockchain data. If you want to run your own full node, you might have to do some more heavy lifting of course - if you are not able to compile it according to the instructions given though, you likely also are not really going to be able to administer the server it'll run on.

[mmeijeri]

EDIT: Of course this is essential to the business because if they release the FULL source code and steps to reproduce it, people could start their own site and probably overtake Ripple. Unlike this bitcoin is fully open.

Ripple isn't a site, it's a network. The Ripple.com website is just a convenience, and just like blockchain.info, you don't need it to use Ripple. In addition, and unlike blockchain.info, your wallet isn't actually hosted there. People can already start their own sites if they want to.

[nahtnam]

EDIT: Of course this is essential to the business because if they release the FULL source code and steps to reproduce it, people could start their own site and probably overtake Ripple. Unlike this bitcoin is fully open.

Ripple isn't a site, it's a network. The Ripple.com website is just a convenience, and just like blockchain.info, you don't need it to use Ripple. In addition, and unlike blockchain.info, your wallet isn't actually hosted there. People can already start their own sites if they want to.

So the full source code of ripple.com is available? If so, great! I will try to copy and rename it and host it myself.

[nahtnam]

Whats funny is that Ripple inst (fully) open source. They are like twitter, claiming to be open source because a tiny part of their script is online.

Your right, Ripple is affraid their brand is not recognized enough to allow publish full open source, and they are right

Sure are. I was just going to suggest that since Ripple is open source, we should create a Ripple with BTC (or NMC) as the native currency (instead of XRP), and thus resolve the issue that the initial creators controlled 100% of the XRP.

Still, if the underlying idea isn't patented, isn't this something we could do?

That would be an online wallet. As I said before, Ripple isnt fully open source.

I'm not sure what you mean by the online wallet thing. If I understand Ripple correctly, it'd be more like a decentralized network of online wallets/exchanges which all federated with one another to allow very quick transaction confirmations.

As far as Ripple not being fully open source, yeah, I even quoted you saying that!

I am talking about Ripple.com not XPM

[mmeijeri]

I'm not sure what you mean by the online wallet thing. If I understand Ripple correctly, it'd be more like a decentralized network of online wallets/exchanges which all federated with one another to allow very quick transaction confirmations.

As far as Ripple not being fully open source, yeah, I even quoted you saying that!

Wallets aren't stored on gateways, only currencies (except XRP) are. It's the gateways that are federated, not the wallets themselves. Of course, gateways can offer wallet hosting services if they want to, but it isn't required for being (or using) a gateway.

[Sukrim]

That would be an online wallet. As I said before, Ripple isnt fully open source.

You've said it before, and you're wrong. Ripple is now fully open source.

So you are saying that in a few minutes, I can clone Ripple (XRP + Site) EXACTLY how it is?

Just for you (it was already posted in this thread):

To build your own working Ripple network, you need at least 1 rippled server, code at:
https://github.com/ripple/rippled

That's it already, but I guess you want some infrastructure with it?

Then you likely want to have a client instead of writing your own, you can use the one at:
https://github.com/ripple/ripple-client (written in JavaScript)
or you can write your own either using the API or one of these 2 libraries:
https://github.com/ripple/ripple-lib-java (Java)
https://github.com/ripple/ripple-lib (JavaScript)

If you want to store the encrypted blobs for your customers (so they can switch computers and still access their wallets in a secure way) you can set up this server too:
https://github.com/ripple/ripple-blobvault

Afterwards you might want to publish your trades to bitcoincharts.com? There's some code for that!
https://github.com/ripple/ripple-chart

Bitcoincharts is operated by MtGox and closed source though... you'd rather have your own charting website, fully Open source, right?
https://github.com/ripple/ripplecharts


Oh, by the way I operate my own rippled server already for quite some time now, after you know how to compile it (...it is a single command) and where to find the binary then it's smooth sailing from there.

Edit:

I am talking about Ripple.com not XPM

ripple.com as in the HTML code for the website?! Or do you actually mean ripple.com/client - the code for that is linked above.

[nahtnam]

That would be an online wallet. As I said before, Ripple isnt fully open source.

You've said it before, and you're wrong. Ripple is now fully open source.

So you are saying that in a few minutes, I can clone Ripple (XRP + Site) EXACTLY how it is?

Just for you (it was already posted in this thread):

To build your own working Ripple network, you need at least 1 rippled server, code at:
https://github.com/ripple/rippled

That's it already, but I guess you want some infrastructure with it?

Then you likely want to have a client instead of writing your own, you can use the one at:
https://github.com/ripple/ripple-client (written in JavaScript)
or you can write your own either using the API or one of these 2 libraries:
https://github.com/ripple/ripple-lib-java (Java)
https://github.com/ripple/ripple-lib (JavaScript)

If you want to store the encrypted blobs for your customers (so they can switch computers and still access their wallets in a secure way) you can set up this server too:
https://github.com/ripple/ripple-blobvault

Afterwards you might want to publish your trades to bitcoincharts.com? There's some code for that!
https://github.com/ripple/ripple-chart

Bitcoincharts is operated by MtGox and closed source though... you'd rather have your own charting website, fully Open source, right?
https://github.com/ripple/ripplecharts


Oh, by the way I operate my own rippled server already for quite some time now, after you know how to compile it (...it is a single command) and where to find the binary then it's smooth sailing from there.

So this is the code of Ripple.com:
https://github.com/ripple/ripple-client

[mmeijeri]

So the full source code of ripple.com is available? If so, great! I will try to copy and rename it and host it myself.

What would you accomplish with this? I don't think they make any money on Ripple.com, other than as a way of promoting the Ripple network, which they will hope will eventually lead to substantial appreciation of XRP. Running a gateway (which means holding fiat currencies and cryptocurrencies other than XRP for safekeeping) or acting as a market maker is how you make money with Ripple, and you don't need Ripple.com for it.

[nahtnam]

So the full source code of ripple.com is available? If so, great! I will try to copy and rename it and host it myself.

What would you accomplish with this? I don't think they make any money on Ripple.com, other than as a way of promoting the Ripple network, which they will hope will eventually lead to substantial appreciation of XRP. Running a gateway (which means holding fiat currencies and cryptocurrencies other than XRP for safekeeping) or acting as a market maker is how you make money with Ripple, and you don't need Ripple.com for it.

For fun. Also it would be if I could mess with it and port it to BTC. Then I have my own little online wallet running!

[mmeijeri]

Sure are. I was just going to suggest that since Ripple is open source, we should create a Ripple with BTC (or NMC) as the native currency (instead of XRP), and thus resolve the issue that the initial creators controlled 100% of the XRP.

So you admit it's actually a very good system?

[Sukrim]

So this is the code of Ripple.com:
https://github.com/ripple/ripple-client

That's exactly what runs at https://ripple.com/client/ yes.

The server component it connects to (see https://ripple.com/client/#/options) is the server called "rippled" from https://github.com/ripple/rippled. If you want to modify it so it uses BTC instead of XRP as native asset (I'd recommend adding BTC as alternative instead of replacing XRP, but that's up to you) you need to work on that first, not the client which is more or less a dumb frontend for an untrusted API provider.

Just like with Bitcoin alt-coins just please think of an original name for your project and use that throughout your fork, similar to every coin that is not on the Satoshi block chain should not call itself "Bitcoin", any distributed marketplace that does not run on the OpenCoin/RippleLabs ledger chain should not call itself "Ripple".

It would be really cool to see some forks in the wild by the way, if you need any help I'd recommend jumping over to the ripple.com forums though, the churn rate in this forum section (+ the amount of "DOGECOIN IS TEH AWSUM! WOW ! SO COIN!" posts) is a littel bit too high for more technical discussions.

[nahtnam]

Sure are. I was just going to suggest that since Ripple is open source, we should create a Ripple with BTC (or NMC) as the native currency (instead of XRP), and thus resolve the issue that the initial creators controlled 100% of the XRP.

So you admit it's actually a very good system?

Yes, there is nothing wrong with Ripple.com. Its a fully featured system, but XPM itself is just another alt-coin.

[mmeijeri]

For fun. Also it would be if I could mess with it and port it to BTC. Then I have my own little online wallet running!

You could do something similar with Bitcoin. It would be slower, but that needn't be a big problem.

If you want to understand Ripple, you have to make sure you understand the difference between the roles of validators, wallets and gateways.

Validators make decisions on which transactions make it into the ledger, much like Bitcoin miners, though there's no equivalent of a block reward. And like bitcoin miners, they don't get to decide the rules that determine which transactions are valid. Unlike bitcoin miners, they do have a vote on some things like fees and minimum reserve requirements.

Wallets are just like bitcoin wallets, they are just collections of private keys and maybe some extra information like labels for otherwise pseudonymous addresses of others. You can host them yourself, or use a hosted wallet service. You do not need to hold any IOUs issued by gateways to use a wallet, though that will limit you to using XRP and any fiat trade credit provided by your extended social network.

Gateways hold fiat currencies and issue and redeem IOUs for them. They need not hold wallets or run validators, though most gateways probably choose to do that as well. They do not keep the books, they merely allow fiat currencies to be traded on the Ripple ledger by honouring their IOUs. This is very similar to the idea of using coloured coins with Bitcoin. The blockchain can be trusted to keep accurate records, but you have to trust the issuers of coloured coins to redeem them for the real world assets they represent.

[Sukrim]

Where are the XRP fountains?

I'm willing to sell you small amounts of XRP at market rates for BTC if you need some to start (up to about 200, which is about 0.01 BTC currently), other than that you can buy them at Kraken, Bitstamp and some slightly more shady places. Also there are some people just giving them away if you promise to buy a few more and give these away to other newbies in return (I don't know how successful this stuff really is in the end, that's why I usually just sell them).

Sure are. I was just going to suggest that since Ripple is open source, we should create a Ripple with BTC (or NMC) as the native currency (instead of XRP), and thus resolve the issue that the initial creators controlled 100% of the XRP.

So you admit it's actually a very good system?

Huh? "Admit" that it's actually a very good system?

I don't know if it's a very good system or not. It seems to have some good ideas in it. But I'd consider the fact that the creators gave 80% of the XRP to some for-profit company (and presumably kept the other 20% to themselves?) to be a fatal flaw even if the rest of the system is sound.

I don't like the currency much either, unlike bitcoins though XRP are just a small part of the system and can be mostly ignored if you don't explicitly want to use them to make markets.

[nahtnam]

Where are the XRP fountains?

I'm willing to sell you small amounts of XRP at market rates for BTC if you need some to start (up to about 200, which is about 0.01 BTC currently), other than that you can buy them at Kraken, Bitstamp and some slightly more shady places. Also there are some people just giving them away if you promise to buy a few more and give these away to other newbies in return (I don't know how successful this stuff really is in the end, that's why I usually just sell them).

Sure are. I was just going to suggest that since Ripple is open source, we should create a Ripple with BTC (or NMC) as the native currency (instead of XRP), and thus resolve the issue that the initial creators controlled 100% of the XRP.

So you admit it's actually a very good system?

Huh? "Admit" that it's actually a very good system?

I don't know if it's a very good system or not. It seems to have some good ideas in it. But I'd consider the fact that the creators gave 80% of the XRP to some for-profit company (and presumably kept the other 20% to themselves?) to be a fatal flaw even if the rest of the system is sound.

I don't like the currency much either, unlike bitcoins though XRP are just a small part of the system and can be mostly ignored if you don't explicitly want to use them to make markets.

200 ripple is 0.01? They give away thousands!

[mmeijeri]

Yes, there is nothing wrong with Ripple.com. Its a fully featured system, but XPM itself is just another alt-coin.

Nothing wrong with that, right? No one is forcing you to use it. If you have a financial interest in seeing BTC win, then that's just as legitimate and you are free to boycot it or to try to come up with a superior BTC-based solution. I'm agnostic about this, the more solutions the better, and market forces will sort out which ones will survive. I don't care which one wins, and it's even possible several ones wil coexist. In the short run I expect Ripple and Bitcoin to be enormously synergistic, and to me that's the most important thing, since that will make it likely P2P cryptocurrencies will take over the world. Which one ends up winning isn't that important.

[Sukrim]

200 ripple is 0.01? They give away thousands!

Well, then go grab some of these "thousands"? Bitstamp even operates a bridge towards BTC, so you can cash them out immediately (well in 5 seconds on average...) to BTC if you like.

Are there really people that are surprised that a random unbacked commodity can have significant value quickly in this forum?!

Currently ~250 are 0.01 BTC: http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/rippleXRP.html
They actually were worth a lot more in summer and tanked quite a bit after that.

Edit:

I am talking about Ripple.com not XPM

Okay.

What's XPM? Primecoin?

Yes, XPM is Primecoin, I guess nahtnam wanted to say XRP but had another currency code in his muscle memory...

Edit2:

I'm not sure what you mean by the online wallet thing. If I understand Ripple correctly, it'd be more like a decentralized network of online wallets/exchanges which all federated with one another to allow very quick transaction confirmations.

As far as Ripple not being fully open source, yeah, I even quoted you saying that!

Wallets aren't stored on gateways, only currencies (except XRP) are. It's the gateways that are federated, not the wallets themselves. Of course, gateways can offer wallet hosting services if they want to, but it isn't required for being (or using) a gateway.

I deposit 10 BTC with a gateway. Now I can spend that 10 BTC using Ripple. That's how it works, right?

Isn't that considered an online wallet? You store your BTC with them, and trust them to keep it safe for you.

You seem to combine 2 things:
a) the Ripple wallet (which is a client written in JavaScript, similar to the one offered by blockchain.info)
b) actual assets that get deposited at gateways (USD, BTC, gold bars, silver dimes, hours of work...)

a) is the stuff you access when going on ripple.com/client
b) can be stored online (depends on the asset), or (more likely) offline.

The Ripple network itself is distributed, anyone can run a node. The gateways (meaning the entities that actually store someone's "stuff") are more along the definition of decentralized (which is NOT what's depicted on ripplescam.org by the way!), similar to the bitcoin network and it's exchanges as "hubs". This is on a different layer of the network though, not at the protocol, but more at the actual usage part.