[OPEN] BM1380 Worldwide Chip Groupbuy

[reactor]

Isn't the point of a group buy to pool our funds to get X price and we all enjoy the savings?  Why is there such a markup on chips?

We would want to contribute purchased chips to a final implementation in usb/blade form, but why the heck would there be a (as of prices right now) $2.70 surcharge per chip over the published price for folks getting 1-9 ($2.25 next level, $1.80 next level)?  Shouldn't the added charge be when we have talk of actually manufacturing it into something?

I thought the point was to get enough money together to allow us to have access to the chips; otherwise we're SOL.  25% markups for small quantities is minimal, especially given the risk inherent to group buys.  Look up your average $9 MCU on Digikey, and you'll see them marked up 60% for the privilege of small quantity orders.

http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/MSP430F169IPMR/296-17009-1-ND/656846

Say everyone who buys does so at the 250 chip level, exactly 250 chips.  OP says he is getting 1k, so that makes 9k chips in 250 chip bundles.  At the "group buy" prices, that means each chip buyer is spending an extra $339 to OP, in other words OP makes over $10k for running a "group buy".  That's bullshit. 

[Cheshyr]

Isn't the point of a group buy to pool our funds to get X price and we all enjoy the savings?  Why is there such a markup on chips?

We would want to contribute purchased chips to a final implementation in usb/blade form, but why the heck would there be a (as of prices right now) $2.70 surcharge per chip over the published price for folks getting 1-9 ($2.25 next level, $1.80 next level)?  Shouldn't the added charge be when we have talk of actually manufacturing it into something?

I thought the point was to get enough money together to allow us to have access to the chips; otherwise we're SOL.  25% markups for small quantities is minimal, especially given the risk inherent to group buys.  Look up your average $9 MCU on Digikey, and you'll see them marked up 60% for the privilege of small quantity orders.

http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/MSP430F169IPMR/296-17009-1-ND/656846

Say everyone who buys does so at the 250 chip level, exactly 250 chips.  OP says he is getting 1k, so that makes 9k chips in 250 chip bundles.  At the "group buy" prices, that means each chip buyer is spending an extra $339 to OP, in other words OP makes over $10k for running a "group buy".  That's bullshit. 

In your example, he makes $12k for being willing to put down $90k... so 13% profit.  Yeah, that's a good deal for everyone involved.  We're now able to buy chips in small quantities, and he gets reimbursed for the time, effort, and risk involved in running a group buy of this magnitude.  If you want to risk the $90k and offer a lower price per unit, make your own group buy.  Maybe we'll all move there.

[Cheshyr]

You can count me in for at least 10 chips, and I'm considering between 50 and 100.  I'll be designing my own system.

Thank you. We will try to support you as much as we can.

It's appreciated; thanks.  Looking forward to the github update.

[reactor]

Isn't the point of a group buy to pool our funds to get X price and we all enjoy the savings?  Why is there such a markup on chips?

We would want to contribute purchased chips to a final implementation in usb/blade form, but why the heck would there be a (as of prices right now) $2.70 surcharge per chip over the published price for folks getting 1-9 ($2.25 next level, $1.80 next level)?  Shouldn't the added charge be when we have talk of actually manufacturing it into something?

I thought the point was to get enough money together to allow us to have access to the chips; otherwise we're SOL.  25% markups for small quantities is minimal, especially given the risk inherent to group buys.  Look up your average $9 MCU on Digikey, and you'll see them marked up 60% for the privilege of small quantity orders.

http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/MSP430F169IPMR/296-17009-1-ND/656846

Say everyone who buys does so at the 250 chip level, exactly 250 chips.  OP says he is getting 1k, so that makes 9k chips in 250 chip bundles.  At the "group buy" prices, that means each chip buyer is spending an extra $339 to OP, in other words OP makes over $10k for running a "group buy".  That's bullshit. 

In your example, he makes $12k for being willing to put down $90k... so 13% profit.  Yeah, that's a good deal for everyone involved.  We're now able to buy chips in small quantities, and he gets reimbursed for the time, effort, and risk involved in running a group buy of this magnitude.  If you want to risk the $90k and offer a lower price per unit, make your own group buy.  Maybe we'll all move there.

Group buy = pool funds to make purchase, you risk amount equal to what you put in.  He wants 1000 chips, so his investment is 1000 chips at Bitmain's price (9.99BTC).  Extra for shipping/handling per order makes sense, extra per chip is greedy and in this case on a giant magnitude.

[Cheshyr]

Isn't the point of a group buy to pool our funds to get X price and we all enjoy the savings?  Why is there such a markup on chips?

We would want to contribute purchased chips to a final implementation in usb/blade form, but why the heck would there be a (as of prices right now) $2.70 surcharge per chip over the published price for folks getting 1-9 ($2.25 next level, $1.80 next level)?  Shouldn't the added charge be when we have talk of actually manufacturing it into something?

I thought the point was to get enough money together to allow us to have access to the chips; otherwise we're SOL.  25% markups for small quantities is minimal, especially given the risk inherent to group buys.  Look up your average $9 MCU on Digikey, and you'll see them marked up 60% for the privilege of small quantity orders.

http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/MSP430F169IPMR/296-17009-1-ND/656846

Say everyone who buys does so at the 250 chip level, exactly 250 chips.  OP says he is getting 1k, so that makes 9k chips in 250 chip bundles.  At the "group buy" prices, that means each chip buyer is spending an extra $339 to OP, in other words OP makes over $10k for running a "group buy".  That's bullshit. 

In your example, he makes $12k for being willing to put down $90k... so 13% profit.  Yeah, that's a good deal for everyone involved.  We're now able to buy chips in small quantities, and he gets reimbursed for the time, effort, and risk involved in running a group buy of this magnitude.  If you want to risk the $90k and offer a lower price per unit, make your own group buy.  Maybe we'll all move there.

Group buy = pool funds to make purchase, you risk amount equal to what you put in.  He wants 1000 chips, so his investment is 1000 chips at Bitmain's price (9.99BTC).  Extra for shipping/handling per order makes sense, extra per chip is greedy and in this case on a giant magnitude.

Unless you're the one paying the actual bill; then your risk is greater, and your investment is greater.  Best case scenario, he only has to cover shipping, tax, and spends hours managing the group buy.  Worst case can get downright ugly.

Either way, it sounds like you're not interested in this group buy, and you're not going to set up your own group buy, so... good luck finding chips I guess. 

[reactor]

Unless you're the one paying the actual bill; then your risk is greater, and your investment is greater.  Best case scenario, he only has to cover shipping, tax, and spends hours managing the group buy.  Worst case can get downright ugly.

Either way, it sounds like you're not interested in this group buy, and you're not going to set up your own group buy, so... good luck finding chips I guess. 

We're interested and have the money - but not with that chip markup.  It is absurd.  Waiting to see if OP revises that, otherwise we'll just invest directly in Bitmain hardware and not pay middleman greed.

[driksson]

i dont get this really.. they should sell in stock even for this.. 6 weeks lead time, 1 month production and delivery of miner. will it be profitable?
you would get a successfull groupbuy done very fast if it was done with in stock chips..
its really a bit wierd, since they started selling their miners a long time ago, one would think they have stock of 10k chips already to start selling.. i mean they didnt have a 6-7 week leadtime for their miners.

[sf2]

 

[incognitoworker]

Interested in finish made racks... :-)
Must be asembled since i cant!

[Beastlymac]

Interested in finish made racks... :-)
Must be asembled since i cant!

Yes they will all be completely assembled.

[incognitoworker]

Interested in finish made racks... :-)
Must be asembled since i cant!

Yes they will all be completely assembled.

Most def interested.
How will price end up compared to the antminer? 180ghs @ 4ish btc

Regards

[Beastlymac]

Interested in finish made racks... :-)
Must be asembled since i cant!

Yes they will all be completely assembled.

Most def interested.
How will price end up compared to the antminer? 180ghs @ 4ish btc

Regards

Currently not sure. We are awaiting the information to be released by bitmain so we can get a quote from the fab.

[vs3]

I think I already see another incarnation of the NanoFury coming ...

[Beastlymac]

I think I already see another incarnation of the NanoFury coming ...

That sounds like a great idea

[sf2]

 

[vs3]

At this stage a dual chip USB hashing 3.2gh under 2.5w would be the niche. Double the hashing with just adding another low cost $10 chip.

That should be possible. On the other hand - my NanoFury devices were rated for around 2GH at 2.5W and with just a minor (software) adjustment can easily do 2.4-2.6GH even though they'll use more than 2.5W in that case ... So, guess how many people are running them at the stock 2GH

But either way - a dual-chip hasher "starting" at 3GH/s @ 2.5W should be a nice add-on. And of course we will have to design the whole thing to easily go over 4GH - just because it can (and because it's almost a given that people will try to push it there anyways)

[Beastlymac]

Would everyone be interested in this?

Bitmain, i send you a PM about the chips, can you please take 2 minute and answer?

Thanks and PM answered.

Updated with a newly added policy, Paying extra 10% can accelerate the lead time to 4 weeks.

We have already made the documents we think is completed for building a miner with our chip. We will send to some community member to review for two or three days, and we can know whether there is something that will make other EE confused or hard to understand. Then we release all the documents to the public.

[Cheshyr]

Would everyone be interested in this?

Bitmain, i send you a PM about the chips, can you please take 2 minute and answer?

Thanks and PM answered.

Updated with a newly added policy, Paying extra 10% can accelerate the lead time to 4 weeks.

We have already made the documents we think is completed for building a miner with our chip. We will send to some community member to review for two or three days, and we can know whether there is something that will make other EE confused or hard to understand. Then we release all the documents to the public.

My initial response is yes, but if the extra money prevents us from getting enough interest to make the buy in the first place...  10k chip is a lot of interest to gather, and I've only seen about 2k initial interest in this thread.  :-(

[Beastlymac]

Would everyone be interested in this?

Bitmain, i send you a PM about the chips, can you please take 2 minute and answer?

Thanks and PM answered.

Updated with a newly added policy, Paying extra 10% can accelerate the lead time to 4 weeks.

We have already made the documents we think is completed for building a miner with our chip. We will send to some community member to review for two or three days, and we can know whether there is something that will make other EE confused or hard to understand. Then we release all the documents to the public.

My initial response is yes, but if the extra money prevents us from getting enough interest to make the buy in the first place...  10k chip is a lot of interest to gather, and I've only seen about 2k initial interest in this thread.  :-(

We have around 7k interest in chips so far.

[madpoet]

I probably would but I still need to know about the actual miner designs/costs.