Zarathustra
Legendary
 Offline
Activity: 1162
Merit: 1004
|
 |
December 10, 2013, 11:39:34 AM |
|
An object/ thing MUST! have intrinsic value in order to be MONEY! It also needs to be all the other things: divisible, scarce etc.
You can not SEPERATE golds pretty value and the fact that we like to touch it, FROM its money value. Without the its intrinsic value it would have NO money value.
The sooner you appreciate this fact the better, as the current PRICE of bitcoin will not last.
The story of the intrinsic value is the greatest BS ever. Repeating spreading BS doesn' make it better. Stop diverting. If you agree with the term intrinsic doesnt matter. Water has value, as it quenches my thirst. Again I am talking about value in and of itself. Water has value in and of itself. I dont need to trade it. It HAS! value. You are spreading BS again and again. Water has no value in itself. The external usage makes it valuable. Are you blind? Extenal use=?  ? Fact is: Water is valuable to humans because we need to drink it to survive. Thus waters value is that we can drink it. If I have water I dont need to trade it for it to become valuable. It already has value! Get it in your head. Bitcoin: What can I do with a bitcoin except dump it on the next guy? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. LET THAT SINK IN: You can do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING! with a bitcoin except dumping it on the next guy. 1) You are not inside of the water. Therefore, there is no intrinsic value. It is used externally, and therefore, it does'nt have intrinsic value. There is no such thing. Not for Gold, not for Gold 2.0, not for water. 2) I can store Gold and Gold 2.0, I can sell it, I can transfer it, I can donate it, I can lose it etc. etc. You are being extremely Pedantic. That wont hide THIS fact: I can DRINK water. I can decorate my HOUSE with gold and I LOVE to look at it and TOUCH it. What can I do with bitcoin? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. 1) You are not inside of the water. Therefore, there is no intrinsic value. It is used externally, and therefore, it does'nt have intrinsic value. There is no such thing. Not for Gold, not for Gold 2.0, not for water. 2) store , barter, transfer, donate, lose it etc. etc. |
|
|
|
|
Erdogan
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1512
Merit: 1005
|
|
December 10, 2013, 11:43:42 AM |
|
An object/ thing MUST! have intrinsic value in order to be MONEY! It also needs to be all the other things: divisible, scarce etc.
You can not SEPERATE golds pretty value and the fact that we like to touch it, FROM its money value. Without the its intrinsic value it would have NO money value.
The sooner you appreciate this fact the better, as the current PRICE of bitcoin will not last.
The story of the intrinsic value is the greatest BS ever. Repeating spreading BS doesn' make it better. Stop diverting. If you agree with the term intrinsic doesnt matter. Water has value, as it quenches my thirst. Again I am talking about value in and of itself. Water has value in and of itself. I dont need to trade it. It HAS! value. You are spreading BS again and again. Water has no value in itself. The external usage makes it valuable. Are you blind? Extenal use=? ? Fact is: Water is valuable to humans because we need to drink it to survive. Thus waters value is that we can drink it. If I have water I dont need to trade it for it to become valuable. It already has value! Get it in your head. Bitcoin: What can I do with a bitcoin except dump it on the next guy? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. LET THAT SINK IN: You can do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING! with a bitcoin except dumping it on the next guy. 1) You are not inside of the water. Therefore, there is no intrinsic value. It is used externally, and therefore, it does'nt have intrinsic value. There is no such thing. Not for Gold, not for Gold 2.0, not for water. 2) I can store Gold and Gold 2.0, I can sell it, I can transfer it, I can donate it, I can lose it etc. etc. You are being extremely Pedantic. That wont hide THIS fact: I can DRINK water. I can decorate my HOUSE with gold and I LOVE to look at it and TOUCH it. What can I do with bitcoin? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. You don't need intrinsic value for bitcoin to succed. In fact it is better with no intrinsic value. Why do you want to drink money? |
|
|
|
|
medUSA
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 952
Merit: 1005
--Signature Designs-- http://bit.ly/1Pjbx77
|
|
December 10, 2013, 11:53:53 AM |
|
I have been following this topic all morning, I can't believe you guys are still going... I believe you guys are arguing from different viewpoints, better defined as: intrinsic "monetary" value intrinsic "survival" value Water has extremely high intrinsic "survival" value, but low intrinsic "monetary" value The vast difference in "monetary" value roots from supply and demand. Fresh water demand is HUGE, but also has a huge supply, relatively cheap to source, hence a low price and low intrinsic "monetary" value Gold demand is weak compared to water, but strong compared to other store of value medium, with a limited slow supply, expensive to mine, hence a high price and higher intrinsic "monetary" value As for bitcoin... rather not comment  |
|
|
|
|
Erdogan
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1512
Merit: 1005
|
|
December 10, 2013, 12:00:13 PM |
|
I have been following this topic all morning, I can't believe you guys are still going...
It is the internets you know. Can't have something wrong written here, without countering it  |
|
|
|
|
porc
Member
Offline
Activity: 98
Merit: 10
|
|
December 10, 2013, 12:06:04 PM |
|
I have been following this topic all morning, I can't believe you guys are still going...
I believe you guys are arguing from different viewpoints, better defined as:
intrinsic "monetary" value
intrinsic "survival" value
Gold demand is weak compared to water, but strong compared to other store of value medium,
with a limited slow supply, expensive to mine,
hence a high price and higher intrinsic "monetary" value
What you are missing is that golds monetary value only exists because it has intrinsic value (jewelry). Without golds beauty value it has no money value. Money needs to have certain properties like being divisible, scarce etc. AND it needs to have intrinsic value. You cant SEPARATE intrinsic value from money value. |
|
|
|
|
Zarathustra
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1162
Merit: 1004
|
|
December 10, 2013, 12:07:34 PM |
|
I have been following this topic all morning, I can't believe you guys are still going...
I believe you guys are arguing from different viewpoints, better defined as:
intrinsic "monetary" value
intrinsic "survival" value
Water has extremely high intrinsic "survival" value, but low intrinsic "monetary" value
The vast difference in "monetary" value roots from supply and demand.
Since humans are no more self-sufficient but collectivized in a civilization, money is essential to survive. But all that has nothing to do with intrinsic value. A thing never has value in itself. The external usage makes it valuable for them, whether it is water, gold or gold 2.0. |
|
|
|
|
Zarathustra
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1162
Merit: 1004
|
|
December 10, 2013, 12:24:00 PM |
|
I have been following this topic all morning, I can't believe you guys are still going...
I believe you guys are arguing from different viewpoints, better defined as:
intrinsic "monetary" value
intrinsic "survival" value
Gold demand is weak compared to water, but strong compared to other store of value medium,
with a limited slow supply, expensive to mine,
hence a high price and higher intrinsic "monetary" value
What you are missing is that golds monetary value only exists because it has intrinsic value (jewelry). Without golds beauty value it has no money value. Money needs to have certain properties like being divisible, scarce etc. AND it needs to have intrinsic value. You cant SEPARATE intrinsic value from money value. That's wrong as everything that you are unloading here. Gold got its value because the state (warlords and priests) demanded it as the tribute and with this tribute, they built its weapons.  http://www.goldseiten.de/content/kolumnen/download/pcm-17.pdf |
|
|
|
|
deisik
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 3542
Merit: 1280
English ⬄ Russian Translation Services
|
|
December 10, 2013, 12:29:52 PM |
|
Well unlike bitcoins gold actually does have some intrinsic value. Gold is valued for its beauty in jewelry and its conductive properties in electrical/technological applications. A bitcoin on the other hand actually has no true intrinsic value. But neither does the dollar bill, and it is still a very successful currency.
Gold is valued in electronics primarily because of its resistance to corrosion (among other things). But the demand for gold in the industry is rather low since gold-plating is sufficient to provide the required protection. So it contributes next to nothing to gold's value. Copper has better conductivity, and silver being the best conductor at normal temperatures... If gold is valued for its beauty in jewelry as it is, why can't we value Bitcoin for its security then? |
|
|
|
Erdogan
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1512
Merit: 1005
|
|
December 10, 2013, 12:32:27 PM |
|
I have been following this topic all morning, I can't believe you guys are still going...
I believe you guys are arguing from different viewpoints, better defined as:
intrinsic "monetary" value
intrinsic "survival" value
Gold demand is weak compared to water, but strong compared to other store of value medium,
with a limited slow supply, expensive to mine,
hence a high price and higher intrinsic "monetary" value
What you are missing is that golds monetary value only exists because it has intrinsic value (jewelry). Without golds beauty value it has no money value. Money needs to have certain properties like being divisible, scarce etc. AND it needs to have intrinsic value. You cant SEPARATE intrinsic value from money value. Oh my gawd. Check out Mises' regression theorem so that you have at least some meat on your boney argument. After that, come back and I will hammer it to death. |
|
|
|
|
deisik
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 3542
Merit: 1280
English ⬄ Russian Translation Services
|
|
December 10, 2013, 12:35:37 PM |
|
Since humans are no more self-sufficient but collectivized in a civilization, money is essential to survive.
But all that has nothing to do with intrinsic value. A thing never has value in itself.
The external usage makes it valuable for them, whether it is water, gold or gold 2.0.
As a side note, the external usage you refer to here is correctly called utility as a measure of the commodity usefulness to an individual... |
|
|
|
Zarathustra
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1162
Merit: 1004
|
|
December 10, 2013, 12:41:48 PM |
|
Since humans are no more self-sufficient but collectivized in a civilization, money is essential to survive.
But all that has nothing to do with intrinsic value. A thing never has value in itself.
The external usage makes it valuable for them, whether it is water, gold or gold 2.0.
As a side note, the external usage you refer to here is correctly called utility as a measure of the commodity usefulness to an individual... Thanks. English is not my native language. |
|
|
|
|
deisik
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 3542
Merit: 1280
English ⬄ Russian Translation Services
|
|
December 10, 2013, 12:56:27 PM |
|
Since humans are no more self-sufficient but collectivized in a civilization, money is essential to survive.
But all that has nothing to do with intrinsic value. A thing never has value in itself.
The external usage makes it valuable for them, whether it is water, gold or gold 2.0.
As a side note, the external usage you refer to here is correctly called utility as a measure of the commodity usefulness to an individual... Thanks. English is not my native language. Neither is it mine. The term is used in economics in the sense you meant it... |
|
|
|
|
notig (OP)
|
|
December 11, 2013, 02:26:23 AM |
|
I have been following this topic all morning, I can't believe you guys are still going...
I believe you guys are arguing from different viewpoints, better defined as:
intrinsic "monetary" value
intrinsic "survival" value
Gold demand is weak compared to water, but strong compared to other store of value medium,
with a limited slow supply, expensive to mine,
hence a high price and higher intrinsic "monetary" value
What you are missing is that golds monetary value only exists because it has intrinsic value (jewelry). Without golds beauty value it has no money value. Money needs to have certain properties like being divisible, scarce etc. AND it needs to have intrinsic value. You cant SEPARATE intrinsic value from money value. So what you are saying is money needs to be good at doing something besides being money in order for it to be money. Right. /s |
|
|
|
|
|
