Monarch

[spooderman]

What is your estimate of when they will actually ship? They were always gonna be late, we ALL knew that (apart from maybe some newbies who did literally zero research before they sank a few thousand bucks....)

Question is....how late? A whole year like last time? Or maybe 4-5 months this time? Like if I ordered one now, do you think having one by say....April is out of the question?

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[HellDiverUK]

I think April 2015 is more realistic. 

I ordered a pair of Jalapenos back in June.  They took 5-6 months to deliver.

[Bicknellski]

What is your estimate of when they will actually ship? They were always gonna be late, we ALL knew that (apart from maybe some newbies who did literally zero research before they sank a few thousand bucks....)

Question is....how late? A whole year like last time? Or maybe 4-5 months this time? Like if I ordered one now, do you think having one by say....April is out of the question?

Not taped out. 2 to 3 weeks for that.

15 weeks minimum from tape out was based on their website till they removed the information.

Order today best case scenario?

18 to 20 weeks. Up to 5 months.  April? But can you trust them to make that deadline? Really you are much better off avoiding BFL.


Why bother? So many other units available and shipping before that with PROVEN designs.

[spooderman]

What is your estimate of when they will actually ship? They were always gonna be late, we ALL knew that (apart from maybe some newbies who did literally zero research before they sank a few thousand bucks....)

Question is....how late? A whole year like last time? Or maybe 4-5 months this time? Like if I ordered one now, do you think having one by say....April is out of the question?

Not taped out. 2 to 3 weeks for that.

15 weeks minimum from tape out was based on their website till they removed the information.

Order today best case scenario?

18 to 20 weeks. Up to 5 months.  April? But can you trust them to make that deadline? Really you are much better off avoiding BFL.


Why bother? So many other units available and shipping before that with PROVEN designs.

Such as? (Please suggest some, as I want to buy sooner rather than later).

Also...I didn't avoid bfl, back in 65nm days, and despite having to wait for such a long time, I still am glad I did!

[Bicknellski]

There are PLENTY better options just look through the threads particularly in the Custom Hardware. Take your pick. 3 to 4 potential that ship well before BFL and some are a lot less per $/GHs.

If you are happy with delays and potential for RMA's can't stop you.

[lumpycustard]

While they haven't shared details of the foundry process, they apparently get the chips back in 4 weeks.  So the 15 week minimum thing is old news now.

Even though BFL is known for delays it's quite likely this will also happen to their competitors.  Look at Hashfast for example.

[Bicknellski]

Not taped out. 2 to 3 weeks for that.

15 weeks minimum from tape out was based on their website till they removed the information.

Order today best case scenario?

18 to 20 weeks. Up to 5 months. 

While they haven't shared details of the foundry process, they apparently get the chips back in 4 weeks.  So the 15 week thing is old news now.

No the 15 WEEKS is what the process was from CHIPS being Taped Out. Nothing OLD... they are covering their tracks on that. Read BFL forums it is 1 week here 2 weeks there 1 week here then to Chicago and were not sure on numbers but wafers will be flying out.

Seriously... at what point does the same carbon copy posts about the same process become apparent to people.

Like I said. You can wait and expect RMA issues. Your call. You know the warning signs are there. There are other units available from other companies. It is your call to make.

[spooderman]

haha wow, now I go on their forums and find this:

 Last week, we met with the foundry to go over details of the delay and reach a definitive conclusion. According to the foundry, we should have the first chips on January 9th (still determining specific quantity), but we will be taking delivery of more wafers every week after that, so it really shouldn't affect anything as far as wafer availability goes, regardless of how many come on the 9th.

At that point, chips are shipped to slicing, packaging and bumping, which is estimated to take roughly a week. After that, they are sent to our ASIC design team for testing. This may take up to a week, possibly longer but we believe it will be less than a week for chip bring up. Once the chip(s) are verified working and properly binned, they are sent to our facility in Chicago for mounting on boards and send to several places for more testing and final firmware programming. This should take another week or so. Once that is completed, we will begin shipping product - during this entire time, more wafers will be rolling off the line and going through the same process, so we should have plenty of chips available and ready to go by the time the units are actually ready to be shipped. I don't yet know what that count will be specifically, but it should be a fairly significant portion of the pre-orders. At this point, it looks like the only hold would pose a problem is if the chip didn't work properly for some reason, but we have no reason to believe that is going to be a problem, as the chip is based on our proven 65nm desgin.

As usual, all of these times and dates are estimates only. It may take more time, it may take less time for each step, but that is the timeline we are working under right now, but it is subject to change. Right now, the plan is for everyone that has a current pre-order, you will be upgraded to the water cooled version of the Monarch for free to compensate for the slight delay.

This is gonna take until summer absolute minimum. If I ordered I wouldn't get until this time next year most likely, or 2015 as some of you are saying.

Fuck that!

[spooderman]

Bicknellski, if you wouldn't mind, could you name some alternatives? KNC have stopped making the products I would buy, the Neptune is too expensive for me. Xtrememiners looks to be a scam.

[Bicknellski]

Bicknellski, if you wouldn't mind, could you name some alternatives? KNC have stopped making the products I would buy, the Neptune is too expensive for me. Xtrememiners looks to be a scam.

Black Arrow
BitMine
Cointerra
HashFast
BitFury EU and USA

---

Then there are number of other DIY types

Marto
Aauer1
Burnin
Bobsag3
Drillbit

---

There are number of Chinese fabs as well. Antminer etc... and the latest LTC/BTC chip from "AVALON" could be a very interesting option.

---

Best investment BTC or some Altcoins. You will kick yourself if you don't put something something in coins. Diversity.

[spooderman]

Black arrow looks great. Legit?

[Bicknellski]

TLDR;

Yes they have a design.

Their chips look pretty solid.

They made FPGA's and have recently run boards for Drillbit and Bobsag3.

Have talked to their EE they seem confident.

Our EE's have reviewed their chip specs and at this point looks pretty promising.

But late February or March.

[spooderman]

TY for your help.

[Bicknellski]

TY for your help.

No problem.

I would read more though on BA and do your legwork. I am willing to take a risk and get their chips into our Wasps... but not sure that means everyone should risk it but still a damn sight better than BFL.

[Bicknellski]

"At this point, it looks like the only hold would pose a problem is if the chip didn't work properly for some reason, but we have no reason to believe that is going to be a problem, as the chip is based on our proven 65nm design." - Josh.


Ya cause you won't have a problem with the boards right? Or the heat sinks? Sheesh.

[spooderman]

I wouldn't quite call them scammers, just grossly unprofessional.

[mufa23]

Two weeks. It will always take two weeks...  (plus however long a chinese new year is)

Nah, all kidding aside I can see a few people get the beta/prototype/almost complete version by the end of Feburary. Then the bulk of the orders shipping from March-May. Then the last of the orders done by the end of June.

[xzempt]

they wont tape out anything.... they are waiting on another manufacturer to sell the 28nm chips.... just gonna buy them and mount on boards.....


thats the only way they will deliver....    im willing to bet  the ponzi is about to collapse.....

[xstr8guy]

I'm pretty sure they taped out some time ago.  I think the last I heard was February delivery.  But you know how that goes! 

[joae1975]

Don't buy from BFL.  They must give a money back guarantee for me to buy.  Buy from KNC.

[klondike_bar]

I'm pretty sure they taped out some time ago.  I think the last I heard was February delivery.  But you know how that goes! 

february would be lucky. They will probably ship around the same time as the similarly-priced 2TH cointerra and the 2x as expensive KNC neptune

[spooderman]

KNC are attractive, but also the Swiss company Bitmine. KNC are cheaper per GH, but a much more expensive unit overall. Arghhhhhh what to buy. The Monarchs are gonna be useless by the time they arrive because all the other companies are dealing with THs now.

[spooderman]

I'm not sure I trust black arrow. How do you all feel?

[Bogart]

You might also look at the BitMain's AntMiner S1 product.  It's a 55nm 180GH/s miner for 4.25 BTC, and they're available right now rather than sometime in the future.

I just received one yesterday and I'm pretty happy with it so far.

[Bicknellski]

I'm not sure I trust black arrow. How do you all feel?

I trust their chips will be on time and well above spec.

[PuertoLibre]

While they haven't shared details of the foundry process, they apparently get the chips back in 4 weeks.  So the 15 week minimum thing is old news now.

Even though BFL is known for delays it's quite likely this will also happen to their competitors.  Look at Hashfast for example.

Bullshit.

Post your references that makes you believe it is 4 weeks, otherwise I call Bullshit/False hope.

There isn't a single manufacturer out there who can have their chips pop out of the factory in 4 weeks. Especially at 28nm.

[jayeeyee]

Why would anyone consider ordering from BFL is beyond my comprehension. By the time they release the Monarch, it will generate absolutely NO ROI and will basically mine the same amount of BTC as a 50-60gh/s in today's difficulty (in a nutshell estimate). Learn from others mistake and read up on the infamous reputation BFL carries.  Even if BFL has the Monarch in-stock and ready to ship, I don't see how it makes sense to pay over $4000 for a 600gh/s unit when you can get (for example) a 2TH unit for $6000 or a 20nm 3TH unit for $13k (might be a bit overpriced - but still better $ to hashrate ratio compared to BFL)

[lumpycustard]

Bullshit.

Post your references that makes you believe it is 4 weeks, otherwise I call Bullshit/False hope.

There isn't a single manufacturer out there who can have their chips pop out of the factory in 4 weeks. Especially at 28nm.

Right there in the monarch information thread:  https://forums.butterflylabs.com/announcements/4414-monarch-information.html

If they haven't taped out then I would certainly agree with you.  But I'm not sure why you would assume this hasn't happened.

[Roy Badami]

Right.  Josh writes in that thread:

Last week, we met with the foundry to go over details of the delay and reach a definitive conclusion. According to the foundry, we should have the first chips on January 9th (still determining specific quantity), but we will be taking delivery of more wafers every week after that, so it really shouldn't affect anything as far as wafer availability goes, regardless of how many come on the 9th.

I don't think anyone is claiming 4 weeks from tapeout to wafer.  Simply that BFL claim they will have wafers on 9th January (i.e. approximately four weeks from now...)

Clearly they must have already taped out for that claim to be credible.

[Syke]

I don't think anyone is claiming 4 weeks from tapeout to wafer.  Simply that BFL claim they will have wafers on 9th January (i.e. approximately four weeks from now...)

Clearly they must have already taped out for that claim to be credible.

Josh has zero credibility, so it's quite possible they have not taped-out.

[Xian01]

Bullshit.
Post your references that makes you believe it is 4 weeks, otherwise I call Bullshit/False hope.
There isn't a single manufacturer out there who can have their chips pop out of the factory in 4 weeks. Especially at 28nm.

Right there in the monarch information thread:  https://forums.butterflylabs.com/announcements/4414-monarch-information.html
If they haven't taped out then I would certainly agree with you.  But I'm not sure why you would assume this hasn't happened.

 Not sure if trolling or drank the Kool-Aid...

 *mumbles something about history lessons*

[PuertoLibre]

Bullshit.
Post your references that makes you believe it is 4 weeks, otherwise I call Bullshit/False hope.
There isn't a single manufacturer out there who can have their chips pop out of the factory in 4 weeks. Especially at 28nm.

Right there in the monarch information thread:  https://forums.butterflylabs.com/announcements/4414-monarch-information.html
If they haven't taped out then I would certainly agree with you.  But I'm not sure why you would assume this hasn't happened.

 Not sure if trolling or drank the Kool-Aid...

 *mumbles something about history lessons*

Not to mention BFL's seemingly fictitious bullet runs.

They started the bullet runs before October 2012 and didn't get their first -->sample<-- prototype until April 2013.

If they haven't explicitly stated when they started a tape out then, no one should assume it has already happened.

January 9th is the same as people being told in Early November of 2012 that they would be getting their first batch just a few days away. This isn't incompetence, it's just plain lying.

==============================

On the BFL fucked us thread I pointed out that they haven't even shown any photo's of the prototype boards containing any real traces on the board.

They showed a red prototype 1 board. It was basically a board with positioned components. Probably a very early component placement test.
Then they showed a blue prototype 2 board. Missing power connectors and barely any traces along with various components swapped out and repositioned. Probably a test board for heating the components to simulate tolerances for the various components.

Again, it didn't take a genius to figure out they aren't even done with the Monarch PCB. For a rep to come out and say they have a "small" delay is total baloney. Back in November the prototype 2 board was barely even done. There never was any hope for November or December. Maybe no hope for January or even February.

Yet somehow they still post as if they just "needed the chips" and they are good to go. LMAO. Hardly.

Anyone with two eyes and a brain could see this. Luckily those who ordered Monarch are missing at least one of two components. Good for them...

[nate008]

Bullshit.

Post your references that makes you believe it is 4 weeks, otherwise I call Bullshit/False hope.

There isn't a single manufacturer out there who can have their chips pop out of the factory in 4 weeks. Especially at 28nm.

Right there in the monarch information thread:  https://forums.butterflylabs.com/announcements/4414-monarch-information.html

If they haven't taped out then I would certainly agree with you.  But I'm not sure why you would assume this hasn't happened.

Wait , you trust an announcement made by BFL , and you are still sane enough to type on this forum?
Something doesn't add up.
BFL won't ship till the 1 of April , and that's no prank  , it;s custom practice.

[Roy Badami]

Not to mention BFL's seemingly fictitious bullet runs.

They started the bullet runs before October 2012 and didn't get their first -->sample<-- prototype until April 2013.

I always assumed this was because the chips from the first run didn't work, and they had to do a respin but chose not to go public about it.

January 9th is the same as people being told in Early November of 2012 that they would be getting their first batch just a few days away. This isn't incompetence, it's just plain lying.

I see no reason to disbelieve that they expect to receive some chips on 9th January.  Whether those chips will work, or need some modifications and another run is another matter.  But that's just the nature of chip design - these things don't always work first time.  And from what I've read pretty much all the Bitcoin ASIC vendors are producing their chips on compressed timescales which are quite aggressive by industry standards, so I would imagine that  increases the risk of failure.

So yes, it probably is the same as November 2012 in that no one knows yet whether they will be lucky and get it right first time.  But I think that applies to every ASIC vendor who doesn't yet have sample chips in hand.

roy

[nate008]

Not to mention BFL's seemingly fictitious bullet runs.

They started the bullet runs before October 2012 and didn't get their first -->sample<-- prototype until April 2013.

I always assumed this was because the chips from the first run didn't work, and they had to do a respin but chose not to go public about it.

January 9th is the same as people being told in Early November of 2012 that they would be getting their first batch just a few days away. This isn't incompetence, it's just plain lying.

I see no reason to disbelieve that they expect to receive some chips on 9th January.  Whether those chips will work, or need some modifications and another run is another matter.  But that's just the nature of chip design - these things don't always work first time.  And from what I've read pretty much all the Bitcoin ASIC vendors are producing their chips on compressed timescales which are quite aggressive by industry standards, so I would imagine that  increases the risk of failure.

So yes, it probably is the same as November 2012 in that no one knows yet whether they will be lucky and get it right first time.  But I think that applies to every ASIC vendor who doesn't yet have sample chips in hand.

roy

They will receive the chips, they will make the cards , they will mine with them...
After 6 months , they will start shipping 1 or per day.Those that have started to get low hashrates.