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Author Topic: Bitcoins Future is promising, but one point I havent figured out yet...  (Read 1933 times)
alumar
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December 11, 2013, 08:24:56 PM
 #1

Team,

I have went through mountains of text, read through the white papers and the various opinions from CNN to CNBC to RT on Youtube over the past two years watching this grow and making an early bet it would take off purchasing both the Casascius Coins on ebay years ago and mining early on for months, (good ole slush pool). Now that bitcoin and crypto has a ton of momentum, one point is still bothering me for widespread adoption...

Even if widespread acceptance becomes a reality how do you account for the physical function of money for individuals less fortunate that's concept of money and its exchange is one of physical transfer of a paper currency. There are millions of people that even to this day do not own smart phones, get on the internet or really tend to any other concept of currency short of the dollar bills and change in their pocket.

Now i understand this is not a overnight change; a change like this is fundamental down to the entire core of moving from a physical to electrical exchange in all aspects (i.e buying a soda at a vending machine to buying scalped tickets from a guy outside a football stadium)

There is a lot of basic rules of engagement that have not been ironed out on that standpoint imo that still need to get flushed out.... What are you're opinions on this obvious issue?


Use Case Example:
I am outside a football game, walk up to a scalper ... he says tickets are 0.5 btc, i accept and transfer funds via cellphone in front of him, he checks his, sees its legit... then turns around to walk away without handing me tickets (no reverse transfer) ...

Now obvious anwser (dont buy from scalpers, check)

Other obvious anwser (you have same problem with cash, but in that instance I can kick his leg, knock him down, beat the shit out of him and get my cash back along with the tickets for trying to jack me; that doesnt work if i dont know his password on his phone after I get it back from him)


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December 11, 2013, 08:34:00 PM
 #2

it's not an issue I think. Bitcoin is internet money, and cash is real life money, they both have uses and there is no need for bitcoin to be the only currency in the world. And even if it will become one, there is very long way for it to be so. Something will be decided until then.

alumar
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December 11, 2013, 08:37:54 PM
 #3

I guess I see that point of having both, each with their purpose and if places accept both, as they do credit cards then more power to all I assume. I have thought about that concept in relation to comparing it to a credit card by way of function. Not everyone has them nor needs them due to the very problem statement I mentioned.


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December 11, 2013, 08:43:20 PM
 #4

Other obvious anwser (you have same problem with cash, but in that instance I can kick his leg, knock him down, beat the shit out of him and get my cash back along with the tickets for trying to jack me; that doesnt work if i dont know his password on his phone after I get it back from him)

You can always beat the crap out of him, whether bitcoin or not bitcoin. I don't think he would be happy in any case, so you could just let him know in a polite manner beforehand. Though, personally, I don't like either that feature of irreversibility but for more prosaic reasons (you could just make a mistake in the address and your money is gone)...


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Gab1159
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December 11, 2013, 09:00:27 PM
 #5

The more I look into it, the more I believe it is necessary to have something like Mastercoin that operates within the bitcoin network. With it, you could mint a coin with the rules you want, including reversibility! That's how crypto-currencies gonna get mainstream imo
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December 11, 2013, 11:24:24 PM
 #6

Other obvious anwser (you have same problem with cash, but in that instance I can kick his leg, knock him down, beat the shit out of him and get my cash back along with the tickets for trying to jack me; that doesnt work if i dont know his password on his phone after I get it back from him)
Since you seem to consider assault a legitimate response to this, why not take his cell phone? Surely it's worth 0.5BTC. If not, I'm sure he has an extra kidney...

Ignoring that laughable tough talk for a minute, I have no idea why every time a new technology comes along people think it's the wild west.
Fraud is a crime no matter how you do it. Handle it like you would handle any other fraud.
empoweoqwj
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December 12, 2013, 02:16:31 PM
 #7

Team,

I have went through mountains of text, read through the white papers and the various opinions from CNN to CNBC to RT on Youtube over the past two years watching this grow and making an early bet it would take off purchasing both the Casascius Coins on ebay years ago and mining early on for months, (good ole slush pool). Now that bitcoin and crypto has a ton of momentum, one point is still bothering me for widespread adoption...

Even if widespread acceptance becomes a reality how do you account for the physical function of money for individuals less fortunate that's concept of money and its exchange is one of physical transfer of a paper currency. There are millions of people that even to this day do not own smart phones, get on the internet or really tend to any other concept of currency short of the dollar bills and change in their pocket.

Now i understand this is not a overnight change; a change like this is fundamental down to the entire core of moving from a physical to electrical exchange in all aspects (i.e buying a soda at a vending machine to buying scalped tickets from a guy outside a football stadium)

There is a lot of basic rules of engagement that have not been ironed out on that standpoint imo that still need to get flushed out.... What are you're opinions on this obvious issue?


Use Case Example:
I am outside a football game, walk up to a scalper ... he says tickets are 0.5 btc, i accept and transfer funds via cellphone in front of him, he checks his, sees its legit... then turns around to walk away without handing me tickets (no reverse transfer) ...

Now obvious anwser (dont buy from scalpers, check)

Other obvious anwser (you have same problem with cash, but in that instance I can kick his leg, knock him down, beat the shit out of him and get my cash back along with the tickets for trying to jack me; that doesnt work if i dont know his password on his phone after I get it back from him)



A face to face transaction is where it should work, simply because of the reason you gave. You knock the shit out of him if he doesn't hand the ticket over, same you would do if you just gave him $200 cash and he gave you nothing in return.
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December 12, 2013, 02:35:30 PM
 #8

You wanted a ticket, not your money back. Just take it if he tries to ditch. (you did wait for him to show that he actually had a ticket, right?)

Turning it around, what's to stop you from knocking him out, grabbing the ticket and keeping all your bitcoins? Most people are not psychopaths, that's what. Not even most criminals. Any kind of business transaction has some element of trust on both sides.

Look inside yourself, and you will see that you are the bubble.
BTCisthefuture
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December 12, 2013, 03:47:23 PM
 #9

Quite simple answer..... Bitcoin isn't and wont be practicle to use in EVERY situation in life.  If a scalper had a credit card reader would you swipe your debit card knowing they could be gaining access to your entire life savings ? I'd so no,  but that doesn't mean there aren't plenty of other situations where you prefer to use a debit card.

I can't think of any type of way to exchange money that is practicle for all situations...there's situations you dont use cash, situations you dont use debit/credit card,  situations you wouldnt use paypal, situations you don't use a check, situations you don't use a money order, etc etc etc. and yes, there will be situations where it makes little to no sense to use bitcoin.  THAT'S OK  Smiley

As far as people not having smartphones or using internet much. That's not a large enough population to hold anything like bitcoin back, just like it's not a large enough population to hold companies like appple, google, amazon, etc etc back. 

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December 12, 2013, 04:19:38 PM
 #10

Use Case Example:
I am outside a football game, walk up to a scalper ... he says tickets are 0.5 btc, i accept and transfer funds via cellphone in front of him, he checks his, sees its legit... then turns around to walk away without handing me tickets (no reverse transfer) ...

Now obvious anwser (dont buy from scalpers, check)

Other obvious anwser (you have same problem with cash, but in that instance I can kick his leg, knock him down, beat the shit out of him and get my cash back along with the tickets for trying to jack me; that doesnt work if i dont know his password on his phone after I get it back from him)


I would expect him to give me the ticket first because if I pay him I cannot get my money back, unless I beat the shit out of him and make him transfer it back to my address

So simple solution:
1. Get the item first
2. Beat the shit out of him




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DeboraMeeks
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December 12, 2013, 05:03:19 PM
 #11

it might not be used in all places but it can be the best option for online payments and transferring money between people (who know about it). also there are some options to increase it's mainstream use like making a BTC Debitcard making it as easy to use as any Debitcard but based on BTC's.
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December 13, 2013, 01:14:38 AM
 #12

Quite simple answer..... Bitcoin isn't and wont be practicle to use in EVERY situation in life.  If a scalper had a credit card reader would you swipe your debit card knowing they could be gaining access to your entire life savings ? I'd so no,  but that doesn't mean there aren't plenty of other situations where you prefer to use a debit card.

I can't think of any type of way to exchange money that is practicle for all situations...there's situations you dont use cash, situations you dont use debit/credit card,  situations you wouldnt use paypal, situations you don't use a check, situations you don't use a money order, etc etc etc. and yes, there will be situations where it makes little to no sense to use bitcoin.  THAT'S OK  Smiley

As far as people not having smartphones or using internet much. That's not a large enough population to hold anything like bitcoin back, just like it's not a large enough population to hold companies like appple, google, amazon, etc etc back. 

What has bitcoin got to do with credit card readers and gaining access to your entire life savings?

That's not how bitcoin works. You give him a public key to one of your bitcoin addresses, that's all. Perfectly safe, you aren't handing over your wallet or "keys to the kingdom" you know.
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December 13, 2013, 05:28:31 PM
 #13

Quite simple answer..... Bitcoin isn't and wont be practicle to use in EVERY situation in life.  If a scalper had a credit card reader would you swipe your debit card knowing they could be gaining access to your entire life savings ? I'd so no,  but that doesn't mean there aren't plenty of other situations where you prefer to use a debit card.

I can't think of any type of way to exchange money that is practicle for all situations...there's situations you dont use cash, situations you dont use debit/credit card,  situations you wouldnt use paypal, situations you don't use a check, situations you don't use a money order, etc etc etc. and yes, there will be situations where it makes little to no sense to use bitcoin.  THAT'S OK  Smiley

As far as people not having smartphones or using internet much. That's not a large enough population to hold anything like bitcoin back, just like it's not a large enough population to hold companies like appple, google, amazon, etc etc back. 

What has bitcoin got to do with credit card readers and gaining access to your entire life savings?

That's not how bitcoin works. You give him a public key to one of your bitcoin addresses, that's all. Perfectly safe, you aren't handing over your wallet or "keys to the kingdom" you know.

It has nothing to do with bitcoin.... I was pointing out that every form of payment that exists there are risks involved. I was giving an example of how there are situations you wouldn't want to use a credit/debit card to make a point that bitcion wont be the best option in all situations and trying to point out that that's OK, nothing is the best option for every situation.   Sorry if I didn't type it in a more clear way, writing isn't my strong suite Smiley

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December 13, 2013, 07:37:23 PM
 #14

...making an early bet it would take off purchasing both the Casascius Coins on ebay years ago...

You give the perfect solution here, use a physical representation of BTC.  Then if he stiffs you there is something to take out of his pocket after you kick his face in.
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December 13, 2013, 11:21:06 PM
 #15

In the future, you see something in USD that will have Btc equivalent price. You can pay via Usd or Btc.

If via Btc, your Btc is auto replenished from fiat.

Why is this important? It would be great because you are from China. You are spending Yuan in the US in a virtually frictionless way.
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December 15, 2013, 07:10:55 AM
 #16

Even if widespread acceptance becomes a reality how do you account for the physical function of money for individuals less fortunate that's concept of money and its exchange is one of physical transfer of a paper currency. There are millions of people that even to this day do not own smart phones, get on the internet or really tend to any other concept of currency short of the dollar bills and change in their pocket.

Physical Bitcoins with irretrievable and unspendable private keys.

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December 23, 2013, 09:23:35 PM
 #17

Bitcoin is part of a multifaceted move towards private commercial transactions that are not intermediated by the state. From fundraising sites such as Kickstarter, to investing networks, to new ability under the JOBS Act of private groups to fund themselves without onerous regulations, people are racing ahead to use and invest and spend their money without reference to states and governments that seek to protect them, constrain them, and track them. That appetite is one that no government will successfully contain (though they will try), and no bubble will effectively sate. Nor will the pricking of a Bitcoin bubble (if one exists) spell the end of these innovations.

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