The Bitcoin Armageddon

[VolanicEruptor]

You are implying this with continued price increase despite the system being unsustainable.

no, I never implied this.  You made the assumption yourself.  The timeline is not black and white.  It is a long, gradual process in which our resources are used up at an exponentially rapid rate.  No big concepts to grab, pretty simple..

YES YOU DID.

people won't stop mining though if the bitcoin price keeps going up.

if we see a $100,000 bitcoin, we're in big trouble with everybody raping energy resources to mine

Why would the price keep going up, if the system is unstainable.

You are implying that market participants BUY DESPITE THE SYTEM BEING UNSUSTAINABLE.

Thus they must be STUPID.

You are implying that market participants ARE MORONS.

I would never imply that the market participants are morons.  Not at all.  We all want a piece of this wonderful boom.  
The system does not "appear completely sustainable" one day, and not the next
it is rather a long and drawn out process.  You just need to think outside the box a little.  

[porc]

You are implying this with continued price increase despite the system being unsustainable.

no, I never implied this.  You made the assumption yourself.  The timeline is not black and white.  It is a long, gradual process in which our resources are used up at an exponentially rapid rate.  No big concepts to grab, pretty simple..

YES YOU DID.

people won't stop mining though if the bitcoin price keeps going up.

if we see a $100,000 bitcoin, we're in big trouble with everybody raping energy resources to mine

Why would the price keep going up, if the system is unstainable.

You are implying that market participants BUY DESPITE THE SYTEM BEING UNSUSTAINABLE.

Thus they must be STUPID.

You are implying that market participants ARE MORONS.

I would never imply that the market participants are morons.  Not at all.  We all want a piece of this wonderful boom.  
The system does not "appear completely sustainable" one day, and not the next
it is rather a long and drawn out process.  You just need to think outside the box a little.  

Either it is sustainable or it is not.

If you are correct, and it is not sustainable, the price must collapse.

Now you saying that a unsustainable system BOOMS is absurd.

[empoweoqwj]

 Popcorn time

[VolanicEruptor]

You are implying this with continued price increase despite the system being unsustainable.

no, I never implied this.  You made the assumption yourself.  The timeline is not black and white.  It is a long, gradual process in which our resources are used up at an exponentially rapid rate.  No big concepts to grab, pretty simple..

YES YOU DID.

people won't stop mining though if the bitcoin price keeps going up.

if we see a $100,000 bitcoin, we're in big trouble with everybody raping energy resources to mine

Why would the price keep going up, if the system is unstainable.

You are implying that market participants BUY DESPITE THE SYTEM BEING UNSUSTAINABLE.

Thus they must be STUPID.

You are implying that market participants ARE MORONS.

I would never imply that the market participants are morons.  Not at all.  We all want a piece of this wonderful boom.  
The system does not "appear completely sustainable" one day, and not the next
it is rather a long and drawn out process.  You just need to think outside the box a little.  

Now you saying that a unsustainable system BOOMS is absurd.

Me no understand ur english.  Come again?
This is not absurd, it is just simple acknowledgement that difficulty is going up faster than our resources can handle it.    

[porc]

You are implying this with continued price increase despite the system being unsustainable.

no, I never implied this.  You made the assumption yourself.  The timeline is not black and white.  It is a long, gradual process in which our resources are used up at an exponentially rapid rate.  No big concepts to grab, pretty simple..

YES YOU DID.

people won't stop mining though if the bitcoin price keeps going up.

if we see a $100,000 bitcoin, we're in big trouble with everybody raping energy resources to mine

Why would the price keep going up, if the system is unstainable.

You are implying that market participants BUY DESPITE THE SYTEM BEING UNSUSTAINABLE.

Thus they must be STUPID.

You are implying that market participants ARE MORONS.

I would never imply that the market participants are morons.  Not at all.  We all want a piece of this wonderful boom.  
The system does not "appear completely sustainable" one day, and not the next
it is rather a long and drawn out process.  You just need to think outside the box a little.  

Now you saying that a unsustainable system BOOMS is absurd.

Me no understand ur english.  Come again?
This is not absurd, it is just simple acknowledgement that difficulty is going up faster than our resources can handle it.  

The bolded part is you stating that Bitcoin is not SCALABLE.

You STATING THAT A SYSTEM THAT IS NOT SCALABLE WILL CONTINUE TO SCALE IS ABSURD.

MARKET PARTICIPANTS WOULD FIGURE OUT THAT THEY ARE RUNNING TOWARDS THE EDGE OF A CLIFF.

END OF DISCUSSION.

[stompix]

You are implying this with continued price increase despite the system being unsustainable.

no, I never implied this.  You made the assumption yourself.  The timeline is not black and white.  It is a long, gradual process in which our resources are used up at an exponentially rapid rate.  No big concepts to grab, pretty simple..

YES YOU DID.

people won't stop mining though if the bitcoin price keeps going up.

if we see a $100,000 bitcoin, we're in big trouble with everybody raping energy resources to mine

Why would the price keep going up, if the system is unstainable.

You are implying that market participants BUY DESPITE THE SYTEM BEING UNSUSTAINABLE.

Thus they must be STUPID.

You are implying that market participants ARE MORONS.

I would never imply that the market participants are morons.  Not at all.  We all want a piece of this wonderful boom.  
The system does not "appear completely sustainable" one day, and not the next
it is rather a long and drawn out process.  You just need to think outside the box a little.  

Now you saying that a unsustainable system BOOMS is absurd.

Me no understand ur english.  Come again?
This is not absurd, it is just simple acknowledgement that difficulty is going up faster than our resources can handle it.  

The bolded part is you stating that Bitcoin is not SCALABLE.

You STATING THAT A SYSTEM THAT IS NOT SCALABLE WILL CONTINUE TO SCALE IS ABSURD.

MARKET PARTICIPANTS WOULD FIGURE OUT THAT THEY ARE RUNNING TOWARDS THE EDGE OF A CLIFF.

END OF DISCUSSION.

I've warned you to stop trying to convince him of actual facts.
This is what you get for feeding a troll.

[VolanicEruptor]

You are implying this with continued price increase despite the system being unsustainable.

no, I never implied this.  You made the assumption yourself.  The timeline is not black and white.  It is a long, gradual process in which our resources are used up at an exponentially rapid rate.  No big concepts to grab, pretty simple..

YES YOU DID.

people won't stop mining though if the bitcoin price keeps going up.

if we see a $100,000 bitcoin, we're in big trouble with everybody raping energy resources to mine

Why would the price keep going up, if the system is unstainable.

You are implying that market participants BUY DESPITE THE SYTEM BEING UNSUSTAINABLE.

Thus they must be STUPID.

You are implying that market participants ARE MORONS.

I would never imply that the market participants are morons.  Not at all.  We all want a piece of this wonderful boom.  
The system does not "appear completely sustainable" one day, and not the next
it is rather a long and drawn out process.  You just need to think outside the box a little.  

Now you saying that a unsustainable system BOOMS is absurd.

Me no understand ur english.  Come again?
This is not absurd, it is just simple acknowledgement that difficulty is going up faster than our resources can handle it.  

The bolded part is you stating that Bitcoin is not SCALABLE.

You STATING THAT A SYSTEM THAT IS NOT SCALABLE WILL CONTINUE TO SCALE IS ABSURD.

MARKET PARTICIPANTS WOULD FIGURE OUT THAT THEY ARE RUNNING TOWARDS THE EDGE OF A CLIFF.

END OF DISCUSSION.

It seems that you don't have much experience with communicating on the internet.  Please do not talk in capslock, it sounds like you are yelling and most people will point this out to you rather quick.  It's best to just relax a little bit before you post.  Yelling in capslock is also a very clear sign that you are frustrated with the fact you lost an argument.  Maybe go for a walk, clear your head and come back with a clean perspective.  I would suggest a warm cup of tea..

[porc]

You are implying this with continued price increase despite the system being unsustainable.

no, I never implied this.  You made the assumption yourself.  The timeline is not black and white.  It is a long, gradual process in which our resources are used up at an exponentially rapid rate.  No big concepts to grab, pretty simple..

YES YOU DID.

people won't stop mining though if the bitcoin price keeps going up.

if we see a $100,000 bitcoin, we're in big trouble with everybody raping energy resources to mine

Why would the price keep going up, if the system is unstainable.

You are implying that market participants BUY DESPITE THE SYTEM BEING UNSUSTAINABLE.

Thus they must be STUPID.

You are implying that market participants ARE MORONS.

I would never imply that the market participants are morons.  Not at all.  We all want a piece of this wonderful boom.  
The system does not "appear completely sustainable" one day, and not the next
it is rather a long and drawn out process.  You just need to think outside the box a little.  

Now you saying that a unsustainable system BOOMS is absurd.

Me no understand ur english.  Come again?
This is not absurd, it is just simple acknowledgement that difficulty is going up faster than our resources can handle it.  

The bolded part is you stating that Bitcoin is not SCALABLE.

You STATING THAT A SYSTEM THAT IS NOT SCALABLE WILL CONTINUE TO SCALE IS ABSURD.

MARKET PARTICIPANTS WOULD FIGURE OUT THAT THEY ARE RUNNING TOWARDS THE EDGE OF A CLIFF.

END OF DISCUSSION.

It seems that you don't have much experience with communicating on the internet.  Please do not talk in capslock, it sounds like you are yelling and most people will point this out to you rather quick.  It's best to just relax a little bit before you post.  Yelling in capslock is also a very clear sign that you are frustrated with the fact you lost an argument.  Maybe go for a walk, clear your head and come back with a clean perspective.  I would suggest a warm cup of tea..

Another filibuster. You are a troll. Your assumptions are absurd and you have not addressed my point.

Bye.

[stompix]

It seems that you don't have much experience with communicating on the internet.  Please do not talk in capslock, it sounds like you are yelling and most people will point this out to you rather quick.  It's best to just relax a little bit before you post.  Yelling in capslock is also a very clear sign that you are frustrated with the fact you lost an argument.  Maybe go for a walk, clear your head and come back with a clean perspective.  I would suggest a warm cup of tea..

Every sane person that would have tried to argue with you would have ended up yelling since you keep saying the same stuff and you don't even look like listening to arguments.

[empoweoqwj]

You are implying this with continued price increase despite the system being unsustainable.

no, I never implied this.  You made the assumption yourself.  The timeline is not black and white.  It is a long, gradual process in which our resources are used up at an exponentially rapid rate.  No big concepts to grab, pretty simple..

YES YOU DID.

people won't stop mining though if the bitcoin price keeps going up.

if we see a $100,000 bitcoin, we're in big trouble with everybody raping energy resources to mine

Why would the price keep going up, if the system is unstainable.

You are implying that market participants BUY DESPITE THE SYTEM BEING UNSUSTAINABLE.

Thus they must be STUPID.

You are implying that market participants ARE MORONS.

I would never imply that the market participants are morons.  Not at all.  We all want a piece of this wonderful boom.  
The system does not "appear completely sustainable" one day, and not the next
it is rather a long and drawn out process.  You just need to think outside the box a little.  

Now you saying that a unsustainable system BOOMS is absurd.

Me no understand ur english.  Come again?
This is not absurd, it is just simple acknowledgement that difficulty is going up faster than our resources can handle it.  

The bolded part is you stating that Bitcoin is not SCALABLE.

You STATING THAT A SYSTEM THAT IS NOT SCALABLE WILL CONTINUE TO SCALE IS ABSURD.

MARKET PARTICIPANTS WOULD FIGURE OUT THAT THEY ARE RUNNING TOWARDS THE EDGE OF A CLIFF.

END OF DISCUSSION.

It seems that you don't have much experience with communicating on the internet.  Please do not talk in capslock, it sounds like you are yelling and most people will point this out to you rather quick.  It's best to just relax a little bit before you post.  Yelling in capslock is also a very clear sign that you are frustrated with the fact you lost an argument.  Maybe go for a walk, clear your head and come back with a clean perspective.  I would suggest a warm cup of tea..

Another filibuster. You are a troll. Your assumptions are absurd and you have not addressed my point.

Bye.

Porc calling someone a troll. Classic )))))))))))

[VolanicEruptor]

You are implying this with continued price increase despite the system being unsustainable.

no, I never implied this.  You made the assumption yourself.  The timeline is not black and white.  It is a long, gradual process in which our resources are used up at an exponentially rapid rate.  No big concepts to grab, pretty simple..

YES YOU DID.

people won't stop mining though if the bitcoin price keeps going up.

if we see a $100,000 bitcoin, we're in big trouble with everybody raping energy resources to mine

Why would the price keep going up, if the system is unstainable.

You are implying that market participants BUY DESPITE THE SYTEM BEING UNSUSTAINABLE.

Thus they must be STUPID.

You are implying that market participants ARE MORONS.

I would never imply that the market participants are morons.  Not at all.  We all want a piece of this wonderful boom.  
The system does not "appear completely sustainable" one day, and not the next
it is rather a long and drawn out process.  You just need to think outside the box a little.  

Now you saying that a unsustainable system BOOMS is absurd.

Me no understand ur english.  Come again?
This is not absurd, it is just simple acknowledgement that difficulty is going up faster than our resources can handle it.  

The bolded part is you stating that Bitcoin is not SCALABLE.

You STATING THAT A SYSTEM THAT IS NOT SCALABLE WILL CONTINUE TO SCALE IS ABSURD.

MARKET PARTICIPANTS WOULD FIGURE OUT THAT THEY ARE RUNNING TOWARDS THE EDGE OF A CLIFF.

END OF DISCUSSION.

It seems that you don't have much experience with communicating on the internet.  Please do not talk in capslock, it sounds like you are yelling and most people will point this out to you rather quick.  It's best to just relax a little bit before you post.  Yelling in capslock is also a very clear sign that you are frustrated with the fact you lost an argument.  Maybe go for a walk, clear your head and come back with a clean perspective.  I would suggest a warm cup of tea..

Another filibuster. You are a troll. Your assumptions are absurd and you have not addressed my point.

Bye.

I addressed your point with my point, please go back and read the posts

[VolanicEruptor]

I hope porc gets to sleep tonight.  It must feel terrible to be so wrong about something 

[empoweoqwj]

I hope porc gets to sleep tonight.  It must feel terrible to be so wrong about something 

He's having that cup of tea you suggested. I fear he'll be back .... he's like a troll with a hobbit unfortunately.

[pand70]

If difficulty keeps doubling for the next 14 months i think the price will be through the roof. So we are not exactly fucked  

it will be very nice for people who own bitcoin, yes
but there is a whole world outside of bitcoin

I 'm not sure what you mean exactly. After all it's not like miners will to take away electricity from the rest of the world just to power their machines 

[empoweoqwj]

If difficulty keeps doubling for the next 14 months i think the price will be through the roof. So we are not exactly fucked  

it will be very nice for people who own bitcoin, yes
but there is a whole world outside of bitcoin

I 'm not sure what you mean exactly. After all it's not like miners will to take away electricity from the rest of the world just to power their machines  

Ummm ..... electricity is a finite resource unfortunately, and a very expensive one. Countries / cities do go through stages where they have power outages because supply can't meet demand. Will be interesting in the future if bitcoin miners really do start taking up a significant % of any countries / cities supply whether they will be any fallout. Sounds unlikely but those bitcoin farms are getting pretty industrial now.

[stompix]

If difficulty keeps doubling for the next 14 months i think the price will be through the roof. So we are not exactly fucked  

it will be very nice for people who own bitcoin, yes
but there is a whole world outside of bitcoin

I 'm not sure what you mean exactly. After all it's not like miners will to take away electricity from the rest of the world just to power their machines  

Ummm ..... electricity is a finite resource unfortunately, and a very expensive one. Countries / cities do go through stages where they have power outages because supply can't meet demand. Will be interesting in the future if bitcoin miners really do start taking up a significant % of any countries / cities supply whether they will be any fallout. Sounds unlikely but those bitcoin farms are getting pretty industrial now.

But since we will shut down all banks , the energy consumption will go down a little , right )) ?

[bitcon]

remind me to bump this thread in 5 years.

[HeRetiK]

New york city used 5GW of electricity in 2001

With bitcoin mining, lets assume 1W/GH of power is required, per hour.

That means 8000KW is required for 8000TH/S network hash rate, per hour.

Now lets assume difficulty doubles every month, as it has been.

8000KW (present)
16000KW (in 2 months)
32000KW (in 3 months)
64000KW (in 4 months)
128000KW (in 5 months)
256000KW (in 6 months)
512000KW (in 7 months)
1GW (in 8 months)
2GW (in 9 months)
4GW (in 10 months)
8GW (in 11 months)
16GW (in 12 months)
32GW (in 13 months)
64GW (in 14 months)

So in 14 months, we would see more power consumption than New york city ANNUALLY in a single hour of bitcoin mining

Obviously the wattage will become more efficient as we build better miners, but there is no way it can keep up.  You would have to see a 2x efficiency improvement every month... and we have not seen that.  But even if you slow down my numbers to account for that, it would still happen in less than a decade.

Eventually the entire world will double its power consumption because of Bitcoin.. and then triple it...

 I am pretty confident we are FUCKED, gentlemen.  

 

Luckily your numbers seem to be off though.

In 2007 New York used 65,591GWh of electricity.
http://observer.com/2008/04/new-york-city-reaches-for-the-sun-but-for-now-were-not-even-close/

For the sake of simplicity, let's assume the Bitcoin network is currently running at 1W/GH/s @ 8,000,000 GH/s.
So per hour the Bitcoin network uses 8,000kWh * 24 * 365 = 70,080GWh of electricity per year.

That's a bit more than New York in 2007, but less than 0.4% of the global electricity consumption of the whole world in 2002. Not accounting for variation, this would make miners responsible for 0.4% of electricity used in their respective country, based on numbers from 2002 (it's fairly safe to assume that global energy consumption has grown since then).
(19,320,360 GWh per year according to Wikipedia)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_electricity_consumption

Of course the argument still stands that the higher the BTC price, the higher the electricity consumption of the Bitcoin network because miners are able to spent more money on electricity and still make a profit. So if we would reach 100,000 USD / BTC at the current coin release rate we'd probably be fucked. However I don't see this anytime soon and due to regular block halving, higher prices become more and more sustainable without miners pumping more and more electricity into the network.


Also, at 100,000 USD most Bitcoiners or long time miners would probably be able to built their own solar plants, thus fostering the renewable energy sector and making the world a better place once more

[interlagos]

As Bitcoin grows (in terms of both hashing power and value), bitcoiners should be able to afford a personal ECAT.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_Catalyzer
http://ecat.com/

[zimmah]

It's a simple demand/supply quiz. If electricity usage goes up, so does the price.
Then miners will have the incentives to find cheaper sources, like solar power.
That will boost the development in the southern countries.
Everyone wins!  

Solar power isn't cheap.
You need the space and the materials to build it.
Okay, so we determine we only need the entire Nevada desert to supply the mining requirements with solar power..
but what about the month after?  We will need twice the room
And the month after that, we'll need 4 times the room..

See what I'm saying?  It's the doubling that fucks us    eventually the entire sun will not be able to keep up with the mining growth

Isn't there like a big useless desert in North Africa? The Sahara? Just fill it with solar panels completely.