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Author Topic: 2013-12-19 - Charles Stross - "Why I want Bitcoin to die in a fire"  (Read 8155 times)
GigaCoin
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December 19, 2013, 07:59:22 PM
 #21

Reference Link: http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2013/12/why-i-want-bitcoin-to-die-in-a.html

Above-the-fold Excerpt:

Bitcoin just crashed 50% today, on news that the Chinese government has banned local exchanges from accepting deposits in Yuan. BtC was trading over $1000 yesterday; now it's down to $500 and still falling.

Good.

I want Bitcoin to die in a fire: this is a start, but it's not sufficient. Let me give you a round-up below the cut.

--------

My response to his rant:

How utterly depressing.

Your leading title - "Why I want Bitcoin to die in a fire" is so completely at odds with what I thought you were about, that I'm having a bit of cognitive dissonance parsing it.

It would be as if Isaac Asimov said "Robots - seriously, screw those buckets of junk, I just wrote about it for the checks."

You open with admitting the current financial system is crap, but apparently not crappy enough to replace, as Bitcoin isn't "IT".

In light of the massive fraud that we've seen globally, from the 2008 mortgage securitization fraud, LIBOR rigging scandal, HSBC Drug Money laundering and the continued Eurozone implosion courtesy of the Eurodollar and everyone hooking together the worst parts of their respective economies into a debt-chain of nightmare proportions, it seems that preserving the current system is one of the last things we should be considering.

And yet, when faced with the potential of complete freedom, the solution apparently is for Bitcoin to "die in a fire". Lightning has struck outside of our financial cave, and we're not rushing to the smouldering tree to nurture this spark, we're instead fleeing back into the damp cold depths, somehow reassuring ourselves that once you can feel the cave walls, you don't need light at all.

I find this particular view shockingly regressive. You, an author that I admire and have many times re-read your stories on taking technologies to the limit - "Accelerando" in particular comes to mind - and yet the very words out of your mouth regarding Bitcoin are riddled with fear and hostility.

Perhaps it was always part of your internal agenda, when I read this from "Accelerando":

"The last great transglobal trade empire, run from the arcologies of Hong Kong, has collapsed along with capitalism, rendered obsolete by a bunch of superior deterministic resource allocation algorithms collectively known as Economics 2.0."

I initially took this to mean that you recognized progress comes at a cost, but ultimately it is what enables us collectively to advance and improve our situation. Now, in light of your post about Bitcoin, I see this as fear of such an advance telegraphed four years before Bitcoin even existed.

As others will no doubt shine bright lights into the dark crevices of misunderstandings you have about Bitcoin, I'm just simply here to express my utter disbelief that someone as visionary as yourself can't see the benefits of a system that allows financial freedom.

You touch upon the fearful subjects of "Carbon Footprint" (Ignoring advances in lowered power consumption of the same.), "Bitcoin Malware" (Every ecosystem has predators and prey, surely), "Violates Gresham's Law" (Apparently we can steal electricity rather than pay? Funny how the utilities still operate then.) "Bitcoin's Lack of Regulation" (Like they've done such a stellar job with the regular system - please.)

And then, finally - "Bitcoin is designed for tax evasion" argument. Oh my. I suppose everyone is a crook and nobody would want to support their communities? Is this really the kind of thought process I'm supposed to believe you have? As for the "Gini Coefficient" you linked to, you do realize that distribution was on a singular exchange that ran with the money not long after, right? I'd say those funds have already been redistributed.

There's more, but honestly it all sounds like you're throwing your weight behind is the legacy financial system, warts and all, and somehow its better than having the ability to spend your money on what you want, or being able to shift your wealth around the globe without artificial barriers or constraints.

Perhaps I should ask about your stance on ebooks and Digital Rights Management, because it seems they're rather similar. Granted, "Accelerando" was released using a Creative Commons license, but what about the rest? Are you in favor of restrictive policies regarding data? Is every "regulation" in your view fair and just?

Am I to conclude that all of those flights of fancy that you've eloquently penned over the years really spring from the restricted and fearful psyche of someone who prefers flawed "protection" instead of actual freedom?

Please say it isn't so.

I'm not here to change your mind, because it seems you're quite firmly set on the issue, I'm just here to express my complete and utter shock that a visionary would rather hide in the back of his cave, feeling the walls for comfort, in the utter darkness.





Dear Tradertimm,

As a dreamer and an advocate of progress myself, i commend you on the great rebuttal!

i wonder, did he ever respond to you ?


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December 19, 2013, 08:00:36 PM
 #22

Quote
and the "if this goes on" linear extrapolations imply that BtC will badly damage stable governance, not to mention redistributive taxation systems and social security/pension nets if its value continues to soar (as it seems designed to do due to its deflationary properties).
This article is just the whining of yet another kleptomaniac who hates the idea of people being able to hold on to their own money.

Bitcoin is the ultimate freedom test. It tells you who is giving lip service and who genuinely believes in it.

Yes, this reminds me of ~50% of the ZeroHedge commenters.  For *a decade* they have complained about the Fed and the unjustness of our monetary system, in favor of free-market solutions.  Bitcoin offers a practical alternative that still fits within our modern high-tech world--vastly more useful for modern trade than gold and silver.  But many ZeroHedgers mock it and cheer every time the price dips.  

I really don't understand.  

Run Bitcoin Unlimited (www.bitcoinunlimited.info)
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December 19, 2013, 08:42:11 PM
 #23

Quote
and the "if this goes on" linear extrapolations imply that BtC will badly damage stable governance, not to mention redistributive taxation systems and social security/pension nets if its value continues to soar (as it seems designed to do due to its deflationary properties).
This article is just the whining of yet another kleptomaniac who hates the idea of people being able to hold on to their own money.

Bitcoin is the ultimate freedom test. It tells you who is giving lip service and who genuinely believes in it.

Yes, this reminds me of ~50% of the ZeroHedge commenters.  For *a decade* they have complained about the Fed and the unjustness of our monetary system, in favor of free-market solutions.  Bitcoin offers a practical alternative that still fits within our modern high-tech world--vastly more useful for modern trade than gold and silver.  But many ZeroHedgers mock it and cheer every time the price dips.  

I really don't understand.  

Yep, not just the zerohedgers, even the Gold & silver bugs in kitcoforums, the infowarers at the alex jones website fit the description you mention. The Ron Paul forum libertarians seems to have some sanity in adopting bitcoin.

Here they have the answer they've been waiting for all their lives and yet they mock it and laugh it off.

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December 19, 2013, 09:40:43 PM
 #24

The first sign of a tsunami is all the water pulling away.

A most excellent observation.

The recoil in horror, en masse, by the minority 'social leaders' of statist persuasion is a sure sign that the masses themselves are swelling and preparing for a massive tidal movement ... the very concept of money has broken the 100yo ice free from it's frozen skids and the sleigh is now definitely on the move again ...

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December 19, 2013, 09:46:55 PM
 #25

Yep, not just the zerohedgers, even the Gold & silver bugs in kitcoforums, the infowarers at the alex jones website fit the description you mention. The Ron Paul forum libertarians seems to have some sanity in adopting bitcoin.

Here they have the answer they've been waiting for all their lives and yet they mock it and laugh it off.

There exists, in this world, a group of people named "skeptics"; though I do believe a healthy dose of doubt makes for a very rational character, complete and utter doubt in everything makes a person nutters, e.g. "Illuminati plots!  NWO OWC!"  These folks don't really care for a change, they just want to shit on everything and hope the world burns with them on it.

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December 19, 2013, 11:03:24 PM
 #26

Dear Tradertimm,

As a dreamer and an advocate of progress myself, i commend you on the great rebuttal!

i wonder, did he ever respond to you ?

He metioned "hitting the pub" after a few of the comment replies, then later he said he'd be "wielding the ban hammer". I suppose he's either too busy drinking, or ban-hammering. I haven't seen my post appear, so he is either backlogged, drunk, deleted it, or all of the above.

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December 19, 2013, 11:05:58 PM
 #27

Trader Timm you wish to see bitcoin crash? Well in that case we are both friend who are waiting for the collapsing of so called digital currency named “Bitcoin”. I can sense the storm nearby which will eventually destroy the bitcoin soon as bitcoin has already felt below the resistance of $1000 and now it’s time to fall further

I didn't write about Bitcoin prices here, at all. If you must know, I think we go through regular cycles of buying/selling, and I try my best to understand which is about to happen. My main point in posting this is for overall awareness and to express my sadness at a very prolific and excellent sci-fi author falling for the "status quo is fine" mindset.

fortitudinem multis - catenum regit omnia
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December 19, 2013, 11:08:12 PM
 #28

Let me guess, the author panic sold the coins he bought for $1200.  Cheesy

It is point :-)
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December 19, 2013, 11:08:50 PM
 #29

Yes, this reminds me of ~50% of the ZeroHedge commenters.  For *a decade* they have complained about the Fed and the unjustness of our monetary system, in favor of free-market solutions.  Bitcoin offers a practical alternative that still fits within our modern high-tech world--vastly more useful for modern trade than gold and silver.  But many ZeroHedgers mock it and cheer every time the price dips.  

I really don't understand.  

Don't even get me started on those guys. Here's a post that I think encapsulates pretty well what they're really all about over there:

Yeah, starting to think that these "preppers" and "stackers" don't give a shit about being prepared or hedged, they just want to lord it over everyone about how well-off they'll be when the shit hits the fan. A variation on the "keeping up with the jonses" except its played out with how big your bunker is, and how large of a walk-in vault you have for your 'stack'.

Consumerism translated over into the realm of the paranoid, but not so paranoid as not to brag about it. Witness Hedgless Horseman's lovingly photographed locally-made meals, the excess of comments about what kind of gun/ammo to buy, the recommendations of dealers in gold bars and coins. They want to share, they NEED to share, to show everyone how "right" they are and how willing they are to see the world burn.

Take the labels off and recontextualize it, it might as well be a bunch of Bentley owners talking about their deluxe concealable pop-down garages, their security systems and of course, the wall safe full of rare cigars and hunting trophies.

Its the displacement of disposable income masquerading as a somber and sensible investment. No wonder they make fun of Bitcoin, not only do they not understand it, but they don't see how they can use it to brag about their foresight and preparedness.

Like it matters to me, at all, while they're counting down eagerly, waiting for the doomsday clock to hit midnight, Bitcoiners are actually fighting the system by participating in something that has benefits that go beyond a bunker or wall safe. Something that adds up to social justice in the face of rampant corruption and wealth inequality.

But they'll keep it up, because that's all they know, much like the inmate that goes back to prison after being freed, because the real world is too much of an unknown compared to the spartan cell they lived in for 30 years.


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December 19, 2013, 11:12:22 PM
 #30

Let me guess, the author panic sold the coins he bought for $1200.  Cheesy

It is point :-)

To be fair, I don't think he has ever mentioned Bitcoin before today. He also has said that in his book "Neptune's Brood", the reference to bitcoin wasn't THE BITCOIN, but another form of digital money that fits his story. He certainly hasn't talked about owning any, that's for sure.

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December 19, 2013, 11:12:25 PM
 #31

Bitcoin does not simply die in a fire. Bitcoin IS the fire.
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December 20, 2013, 12:13:32 AM
 #32

Oh yeah ... burn it to the ground !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=TZwmgeeFB-E#t=1956
 jump to 32mins in for the hellfire and brimstone part in the southern accent ... it's classic.

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December 20, 2013, 12:21:13 AM
 #33



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December 20, 2013, 04:16:22 AM
 #34

Nice rebuttal.

Stross is the modern day Ken MacLeod.  He clearly has socialist instincts but the facts of the world and the history of the 20th century have forced him to admit how much socialism sucks.  So he looks for alternatives.  Someone tells him about libertarianism.  He studies it.  It makes sense logically, but his gut recoils.  Despite this, he manages to wrote some decent science fiction with libertarian themes.

But deep down, he's still a socialist.  And when push comes to shove, like the emergence of a technology that frees money from the state, he sides with state power.  He might make overtures to freedom on paper, but when it actually matters, he'll always side with power.
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December 20, 2013, 12:29:10 PM
 #35

Hijacking pc's to mine bitcoins is long past. This guy needs to do his homework.
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December 20, 2013, 03:43:25 PM
 #36

Happy new difficulty 1.2 bilion   Grin

View Screen Capture[/url

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December 20, 2013, 03:47:32 PM
 #37

I like him as an author. Outside of that I guess he should keep his mouth shut. Not liking something is one thing, but hoping it gets ruined for those that do is just selfish and retarded.
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December 20, 2013, 07:38:34 PM
 #38

Sorry Charles; we invented the Bitcoin Firesafe, so it's too late for that.   Cool
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December 20, 2013, 08:00:55 PM
 #39

I like him as an author. Outside of that I guess he should keep his mouth shut. Not liking something is one thing, but hoping it gets ruined for those that do is just selfish and retarded.

Finally, an intelligent and rational argument against Bitcoin.
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December 20, 2013, 10:00:10 PM
 #40

Quote
and the "if this goes on" linear extrapolations imply that BtC will badly damage stable governance, not to mention redistributive taxation systems and social security/pension nets if its value continues to soar (as it seems designed to do due to its deflationary properties).
This article is just the whining of yet another kleptomaniac who hates the idea of people being able to hold on to their own money.

Bitcoin is the ultimate freedom test. It tells you who is giving lip service and who genuinely believes in it.
^^^  This!!!  There are a lot of folks who like to give voice to their support of liberty, but who at their core are merely interested in imposing their own concept of "liberty"--one that usually puts them in charge.

It's how leftists think.
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